Stirring the pot on the LH/corriente topic

[rocfarm]

The southeast produces a lot of chickens that don't eat grass, but eat lots of corn and soybean meal their entire life. Lots of that feed shipped in by rail from the corn belt. Northwestern states are mostly ranked lower than southern states in corn production, but seem to see better prices on calves. Just seems to me that there is more to the story on prices for the southeast calves than distance from corn belt.

Yeah. Weather (like I said). And the northwestern states are richer. Seems like California cattle are more expensive. I think some of the buyers come to Texas to buy bulls because of the discounts, it seems. Almost seems like those groups are so rich that the just want to pay the premiums for front pasture cattle.

The chicken comparison doesn't work, I think, because of the hyper efficiency of that market. Pork either. I think it requires less transport to move feed to feed out a chicken than the equivalent weight in beef.

Proof of my points that is northern buyers come south to buy cattle to ship north to feed out before the weather turns. In other words, it's cheaper to move the cattle to the feed than to move the feed to the cattle. But of course this whole market is multifactorial. And decisions are based on current relationships between the factors.

And it's interesting to see the old timers describe how those factors have fluxed and changed over time.

Actually, if you guys would troll each other a bit less, lots of people could learn even more about how to get on the right side of things in their area. No shortage of expertise or experience here.

 

[Ouachita]

We should all reach down deep inside, pull our knickers out of our butt crack and dump the pizz out of our oatmeal.

We've got cattle to raise and fence to mend. Besides that, I'm out of bourbon and can't stand to hear y'all's beechin.
Y'all caint even do it right.

 

[Mountaintown Creek Ranch]

We should all reach down deep inside, pull our knickers out of our butt crack and dump the pizz out of our oatmeal.

We've got cattle to raise and fence to mend. Besides that, I'm out of bourbon and can't stand to hear y'all's beechin.
Y'all caint even do it right.

Are you up at 3:30 in the morning listening to Arkansauce ?

 

[Ouachita]

Are you up at 3:30 in the morning listening to Arkansauce ?

Yes/No, and I'm not going to Google it. I'm afraid of seeing a snaggle toothed mountain woman with a nasty infection

 

[rocfarm]

We should all reach down deep inside, pull our knickers out of our butt crack and dump the pizz out of our oatmeal.

We've got cattle to raise and fence to mend. Besides that, I'm out of bourbon and can't stand to hear y'all's beechin.
Y'all caint even do it right.

Already mended my fences. My cattle raise themselves. We all got time because we're not row crop farmers.

 

[Ouachita]

Already mended my fences. My cattle raise themselves. We all got time because we're not row crop farmers.

At least you wake at a respectable hour

 

[Mountaintown Creek Ranch]

Yes/No, and I'm not going to Google it. I'm afraid of seeing a snaggle toothed mountain woman with a nasty infection

They're good.
Google Paralyzed by them

 

[Stonewall Joe]

I'm not saying that dairy crosses are bad eating or can't marble. Although I've never seen a Jersey that marbled... but then I only have limited experience with Jerseys.

What I'm saying is that people that put their blood, sweat, and tears into making their cattle as good as they can possibly be are getting docked simply because the animals are the wrong color... while black dairy crosses are getting a premium.

IF it's true.

you're not getting "docked" for having a colored cow, you are receiving a premium for having a black cow. It's real simple, you just said it. So if you want to get a lower price for your cattle, just raise what ever color you want. You know what's going to happen up front. If you want to get more, get a black homozygous bull and then all the issues go away. It's like having a hole in your pocket and complaining that your money keeps falling out and getting lost instead of sewing up the hole.

 

[Ky hills]

you're not getting "docked" for having a colored cow, you are receiving a premium for having a black cow. It's real simple, you just said it. So if you want to get a lower price for your cattle, just raise what ever color you want. You know what's going to happen up front. If you want to get more, get a black homozygous bull and then all the issues go away. It's like having a hole in your pocket and complaining that your money keeps falling out and getting lost instead of sewing up the hole.

The wording on this market report calls it a discount, I've also seen it worded as a dock too.

 

[Warren Allison]

Did you look at the article? It has a picture and some data on a simangus x holstein. Does not look that bad. Holsteins have very good marbling. An animal that meets the carcass data requirements of CAB is going to be good eating. Cull dairy cows go to slaughter along with true beef cows. What do you see wrong with this steer?
Is that steer representative of all dairy x beef? I don't know.

View attachment 39162

They have to grade prime+ for CAB. But, I have seen a lot of Angus x Holsteins, especially pre-2000 when we had dairies here,. This is the best looking of that kind of cross I have ever seen.

 

[Warren Allison]

you're not getting "docked" for having a colored cow, you are receiving a premium for having a black cow. It's real simple, you just said it. So if you want to get a lower price for your cattle, just raise what ever color you want. You know what's going to happen up front. If you want to get more, get a black homozygous bull and then all the issues go away. It's like having a hole in your pocket and complaining that your money keeps falling out and getting lost instead of sewing up the hole.

There might be five of us on CT that understand that!

 

[mwj]

The ''off color'' in that report is not uncommon. In my part of the country that would be line-back, roan, spots, white on the feet and legs ect.

 

[Ky hills]

The ''off color'' in that report is not uncommon. In my part of the country that would be line-back, roan, spots, white on the feet and legs ect.

Pretty sure here that means Hereford marked, white Charolais, old time Simmentals, etc.
The line backed longhorns looking, or roan white park kind generally don't even make the report as they bring well under the reported prices.

 

[Travlr]

you're not getting "docked" for having a colored cow, you are receiving a premium for having a black cow. It's real simple, you just said it. So if you want to get a lower price for your cattle, just raise what ever color you want. You know what's going to happen up front. If you want to get more, get a black homozygous bull and then all the issues go away. It's like having a hole in your pocket and complaining that your money keeps falling out and getting lost instead of sewing up the hole.

Yeah... some people don't get it.

 

[puzzled in oregon]

you're not getting "docked" for having a colored cow, you are receiving a premium for having a black cow. It's real simple, you just said it. So if you want to get a lower price for your cattle, just raise what ever color you want. You know what's going to happen up front. If you want to get more, get a black homozygous bull and then all the issues go away. It's like having a hole in your pocket and complaining that your money keeps falling out and getting lost instead of sewing up the hole.

I think you stated it very clearly, the market is based on color not quality.
Put some spots or roan color on this guy and the buyers will not pay market price, they will "dock" you.

 

[simme]

They have to grade prime+ for CAB. But, I have seen a lot of Angus x Holsteins, especially pre-2000 when we had dairies here,. This is the best looking of that kind of cross I have ever seen.

I don't think that a carcass has to grade USDA prime to qualify for CAB. CAB Prime and CAB natural are small segments of the overall CAB program. There are 3 types/labels of CAB - CAB, CAB Prime and CAB Natural. "Standard" CAB requirement on marbling is modest or higher. USDA choice grade is subdivided into 3 marbling types - small, modest and moderate. So, the "low" choice does not qualify for CAB, but the modest and moderate Choice will qualify for CAB. That is my understanding.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

The hurt every producer and consumer when they tied that program to a color and not quality. That will eventually come back on them.

Not quite correct. LIVE evaluation, they have to be 51% black hided, no hump, no dairy appearance, BUT - they have to GRADE MODEST or higher (Choice Grade).

They have to grade prime+ for CAB. But, I have seen a lot of Angus x Holsteins, especially pre-2000 when we had dairies here,. This is the best looking of that kind of cross I have ever seen.

Also, not quite right. They have to grade CHOICE (Modest or better). -- Oh, I see Simme explained that.

The Holstein x Angus steer shown somewhere above is totally NON-TYPICAL for that cross. Maybe it was a % Holstein??? Anyway, by live evaluation, THAT steer would have passed. But that is deceiving to many people. THAT steer is not what 99.9% of the cross is going to look like.

Just wanted to back track a little bit on the discussion of the black Simmentals. You have to remember black gene is dominant. I had black Simmentals back in 1970's. I never bred to a black commercial animal again. So, before there were black Simmental bulls available (and after) I had black Simmental cows that had generations of Fullblood bulls. I never bred to a black Simmental bull until I used my own bull, Simme Valley Macho As U (my avatar) - born in 2002. What I'm getting at is that breeders did not use Angus bulls until maybe the last ? 15 years? going back to % Simmentals because it is a hot item.
I (and MANY other purebred breeders) have NEVER bred to an Angus bull. Back in the 80's - 90's slowly there were PB black Simmental bulls available to use. I never used any of them until maybe in the 2010's because they weren't as good as my own cows.
Over the past 5-10 years, I have used maybe 2 bulls that were 3/4% Simmental - 1/4% Angus (which produces a PB if bred to a PB). So, a few of my cows have 1/8% if they stayed in my herd.
Modern day black Simmental bulls have a higher chance of having % Angus in their DNA.

 

[Chuckie]

I have to ask, has anyone ever eaten Corriente before? I ask because I don't know anything about this cattle breed. If you have dressed one out, tell me what the meat is like. I am curious.

 

[Chuckie]

I ask this because I am curious to what a Piedmontese bull bred to a Corriente cow would do. You know how thin a Jersey cow is? But they have a real sweet great tasting beef. Here is a picture of a 50/50 Piedmontese Jersey Calf at 2 months old and I will skip to when they are 7 months old.

 

[Chuckie]

So I know those Corriente cows are thin, like the Jersey calves.