Smoking

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Running Arrow Bill":1wa7clv5 said:
As a smoker myself for many years, I just tend to ignore all of the negative as well as positive "evidence" pro and con smoking. I'll live as long as I'm supposed to regardless of how I live my life (the 1960's and 1970's were great, by the way...lol).

On the other hand,

I will also agree that there are MANY things in our environment (e.g., radioactivity, solar flare rays, fumes from city industries, genetics, where we live, elusive microwaves, plastics, contaminated domestic and foreign foods, water we drink, food we eat, etc., ) that probably have as much impact on our health (or lack of it) as tobacco use. One can always find plenty of "scientific evidence" that "proves" something is good or bad for us.

Given all the stuff that we probably have absolutely no control over I find it interesting that many of the "anti-tobacco" activists are also dying premature deaths (for what ever reasons). Also, they preach that smoking is a "nasty and obscene habit"... I trust they also are aware that sex (in all it's forms) could also be considered a "dirty, nasty, and obscene" habit...ROFLOL! (Don't get me wrong...I'm not against sex...lol).

The above aside...it is, however, a little difficult to contract HIV, AIDS, STD's, Obesity, Pregnancy, etc. from smoking...LOL! Unless of course, you are also smoking too...

As such, the activists and those who are "anti" anything need something to do, I guess. Probably just like some of the religious denominations that preach that if you aren't "one of our special flock", they you are going to Hades in a handbasket...

Bill, where have you been trying to go to church. That's just terrible that they would say something like that to you. At our church we go to great lengths to make sure people don't have that kind of experience. It saddens me when I hear of people with these kinds of stories. Don't get discouraged Bill I know that somewhere close to you is a Bible based church that does not have that kind of attitude and would love to have you on Sunday morning.

Larry
 
larryshoat":1x6samkx said:
Bill, where have you been trying to go to church. That's just terrible that they would say something like that to you. At our church we go to great lengths to make sure people don't have that kind of experience. It saddens me when I hear of people with these kinds of stories. Don't get discouraged Bill I know that somewhere close to you is a Bible based church that does not have that kind of attitude and would love to have you on Sunday morning.

Larry

If you're in a church that has that kind of attitude, then congratulations. Most of the church people are nothing more than a (insert denomination here) religious taliban. They are right, you are wrong, and if you are not part of their church, you are doomed to go to hades.

Too much religion going on....
 
grannysoo":175fdh7u said:
larryshoat":175fdh7u said:
Bill, where have you been trying to go to church. That's just terrible that they would say something like that to you. At our church we go to great lengths to make sure people don't have that kind of experience. It saddens me when I hear of people with these kinds of stories. Don't get discouraged Bill I know that somewhere close to you is a Bible based church that does not have that kind of attitude and would love to have you on Sunday morning.

Larry

If you're in a church that has that kind of attitude, then congratulations. Most of the church people are nothing more than a (insert denomination here) religious taliban. They are right, you are wrong, and if you are not part of their church, you are doomed to go to hades.

Too much religion going on....

I listen most days to Dr Charles Stanley from First Baptist Church in Atlanta. I'm not Baptist, but as a Methodist I've never heard one word that would make me think that I would not be welcome in his church.That's just one example of what I would think would be a very good church in Georgia. In our area we have a ministerial association that is inter denominational and accomplishes a good bit as far as service to the community. As you say I would be wary of any church that did not link with other denominations to accomplish a larger service.

Larry
 
Even with the life expectency rankings for the USA being around 40th in the entire world and the USA have such a low percentage of smokers, I wonder if all the non-smoking truck drivers (and related dock workers) in the USA makes the number so low....???....


Diesel Fumes Linked to Lung Cancer

Recent research suggests that lung cancer risks are higher among trucking industry workers because of diesel fume exposure. According to a new study published in the January issue of the journal Environmental Health Perspectives, workers in the trucking industry with an estimated 20 years on the job have an elevated risk of lung cancer with each increasing year of work due to their diesel fume exposure.

Scientists have long known that diesel fumes might play a role in the development of lung cancer. According to a report on SFgate.com, diesel fumes consist of a toxic stew of about 400 chemicals, including benzene, formaldehyde, arsenic, cyanide and lead. Breathing large amounts of diesel fumes could cause respiratory diseases, and people with asthma, heart disease and emphysema can worsen if exposed to the exhaust. Long-term exposure leads to chronic obstructive lung disease as well as lung cancer.

For the Environmental Health Perspectives study, researchers at Harvard and UC Berkeley analyzed work records for 31,135 male workers employed in the unionized U.S. trucking industry in 1985. They examined lung cancer mortality through 2000 for jobs associated with current and historical use of diesel-, gas- and propane-powered vehicles using the National Death Index. The eight categories of workers studied were long-haul driver, pickup and delivery drivers, dockworker, combination worker in the truck cab or loading dock, mechanic, hostler in a terminal yard, clerks in a terminal office, and other jobs.

According to the study, there were 4,306 deaths and 779 cases of lung cancer from 1985 through 2000. Long-haul drivers, pickup and delivery drivers, dockworkers, and combination workers all had significantly elevated hazard ratios After making allowances for the amount of smoking typical in each job, the researchers concluded that the cancer risk for drivers working short pickup and delivery runs and dockworkers rose a little over 2 percent per year, and grew faster than risks for long-haul drivers.

The authors of the report wrote that the studies results indicated that regulation of diesel emissions was important. "These results along with previous studies support current efforts to reduce emissions from both diesel vehicles and other sources of vehicle and traffic-related emissions," the report said.

The study is already impacting public policy in at least one state. Citing the study, the California Air Resources Board passed the nation's strictest rules for diesel truck emissions this past December. The new regulations require all truck companies to initially retrofit their fleets with diesel trap oxidizers by 2010. Trucks older than 2010 will have to be replaced, on a staggered schedule, by the year 2020. Companies with fleets of one to three trucks have an extra year to comply. Fines for non-compliance could be as much as $10,000 per day.

http://www.newsinferno.com/archives/4522
 
Think we should ban all deisal engines in the USA or even add a massive engine tax? After all, we wouldn't have food to feed the rest of the world. Big difference between food, a necessary item, and smoking...so lets just pick on smokers.
 
Throughout history, we have found it is not uncommon to convict the innocent. How many convicted people are released each year from prisons as the result of DNA evidence? This fact shows the same thing can occur in society with smokers. There is absolutely no reason why a smoker shouild be taxed more than a non-smoker.

Convicting the Innocent

Writing in 1998, Oxford research scientist, Dr. Kitty Little, concluded that the real cause of lung cancer is diesel fumes. She claimed that the evidence here is much more persuasive. It includes the facts that:

· tobacco smoke contains no carcinogens, while diesel fumes contain four known carcinogens;

· that lung cancer is rare in rural areas, but common in towns;

· that cancers are more prevalent along the routes of motorways;

· that the incidence of lung cancer has doubled in non-smokers over past decades;

· and that there was less lung cancer when we, as a nation, smoked more.

Pointing out that there has been evidence for over 40 years that smoking does not cause lung cancer, Dr Little said:
"Since the effect of the anti-smoking campaign has been to prevent the genuine cause from being publicly acknowledged, there is a very real sense in which we could say that the main reason for those 30,000 deaths a year from lung cancer is the anti-smoking campaign itself".

It appears that Dr. Little's own study was confirmed in Abbey D, et al. New evidence links air pollution with lung cancer . Am J Respir Crit Care Med 1999; 159: 373-82.

Diesel smoke and lung cancer, by Dr Kitty Little , January 1998

The public were told that the sole purpose of the ban on smoking in enclosed workplaces was to protect the health of non-smokers from the harmful effects of passive smoke. Dr. Littles research turns that argument completely on its head.

I have alreaded pointed out that the European Environment Agency are concerned that Air quality limit values, which are aimed at protecting public health, are frequently exceeded especially in streets and other urban hotspots Source.

I have also identified that, as recently as 2004, in a work part supported by the ExternE project series of the European Commission DG Research, that we find research authors stating that they find several reasons why the number of deaths is not meaningful for the total mortality impact of air pollution, which includes the fact that

it makes no sense to add the number of deaths due to different contributing causes (such as air pollution, smoking or lack of exercise) because one would end up with numbers far in excess of total mortality. Valuation of Air Pollution Mortality: How to achieve consistency between the epidemiological studies and the monetary valuation

I'm afraid such strange logic evades me. Perhaps I'm missing something here. However, detailed examination of the 2005 paper Estimate of deaths attributable to passive smoking among UK adults: database analysis by Konrad Jamorik reveales that

Deborah Arnott of ASH (UK) provided some important references and ……the calculations presented in the paper were commissioned by SmokeFree London, a collaboration of all 33 local borough councils in London concerned with extension of smoke-free policies in that city.

I would excuse anyone for thinking that at this point that things just couldn't get any worse for the tobacco control lobby and our politicians in Westminster but unfortunately the picture becomes even more damning.

In an article published in today's Publican Pete Robinson writes

Although ASH purports to be a 'charity' it's principle source of funding comes from the Tobacco Advisory Group (TAG) - a tiny, somewhat obscure organisation who's principal role is to dole out cash to proactive anti-smoking parties. But who funds TAG? You may (or perhaps not) be surprised to learn that TAG is a subsidiary of Cancer Research UK.

and that

Around the time New Labour came to power CRUK started to be regularly injected with State cash in return for favours rendered. For example, in 2003 the Dept of Health handed CRUK £2.5 million to 'develop' their anti-smoking campaigns. In August 2005 they published a consultation document entitled: "Going Smokefree: The Case for ALL pubs and clubs", that led directly to the blanket smoking ban.

He boldly continues

So we have a major charity getting taxpayer's funds, which sets up a go-between institution to bankroll a lobbying pressure group. (ASH) which in turn supplies dubious statistics and dodgy surveys directly to the Dept of Health. I'm sure there must be laws that would criminalise such practices in The City.

As recently as March this year I stated that when one looks at the grants received by ASH from the Department of Health and other Health Charities it becomes obvious that it became imperative by 2005 to generate some groundbreaking new evidence in order to maintain funding levels. Listen Up ASH! We Have Questions

As if by magic they conjured up the Konrad Jamrozik study.

When the final historical chapter is written concerning today's confrontation between the prohibitionists and libertarians it will make reference to heroes and villains. One such hero might be Politician Lord Skidelsky who remarked

Everything hinges on the harm that smoking does to non-smokers… You do not have any right to object and stop me doing something unless I am doing you harm. The fact that what I do may cause you irritation or disquiet or even some distress does not give you the right to stop me doing it unless I am doing you harm. Whether I am doing you harm or not is a scientific issue; it depends partly on the medical evidence in this case, and partly on statistical evidence.

I am not an epidemiologist but I know a little about statistics. I assert that the harm wrought by passive smoking to the lungs, the heart and other vital organs is statistically negligible. It is not something that would have any statistical significance outside the context of this particularly heated debate. Therefore, I believe that Dr K Denson of the Thame Thrombosis and Haemotosis Research Foundation states the true position:

"The hard evidence for any deleterious effect of second-hand smoke is so tenuous and equivocal, that similar evidence would not be seriously considered, let alone published, in any other field of medicine".

He continued

The House of Commons Select Committee on Health refers to 12,000 extra deaths. Yet the eminent epidemiologist, Sir Richard Peto, said that it was impossible to quantify the figures. I was there—he was giving that evidence to the House of Lords Select Committee on Economic Affairs. I pressed him repeatedly to name a figure, and he said, "I can't do it". He said, "I feel there must be some effect, but I cannot quantify that effect".

Lord Skidesy was even more direct when stating

I do not believe that the harm that passive smoking might cause can in any way justify this measure—that is, criminalising all smoking in any public space…..I accuse the Government of not showing a due concern for personal liberty……. My position in this debate is a concern for personal liberty.

Conclusion

There can be no doubt whatsoever that the present Government is determined to trample all over the liberties and freedoms of the British People. It is doing so repeatedly. The smoking ban, 42 days detention without trial, ID cards, speed and surveillance cameras, pay as you throw bin taxes, an ever increasing burden of other petty rules and regulations enforced by public sector jobsworths and the illegal surrender of lawmaking powers to the European Union provide the clear evidence of this. Isn't all this being pursued in the absence of public consent?

The choice confronting each and every one of us is stark. We can merely act as passive spectators and watch as the fabric of our democratic institutions and cultural identity are destroyed or we can say "Enough is enough" and take reasonable steps to defend ourselves against the largely unpublicised Change agenda.

We believe that choice is yours. I pray that you exercise your judgement wisely.

Martin Hensman M.Inst.L.Exc, LLB (Hons)

http://www.freedom2choose.info/news1.php?id=783
 
Running Arrow Bill":1plk2nti said:
As such, the activists and those who are "anti" anything need something to do, I guess. Probably just like some of the religious denominations that preach that if you aren't "one of our special flock", they you are going to Hades in a handbasket...

Words of wisdom. I have heard people refer to smokers smoking in the church parking lot as "lepers". See church thread.
 
larryshoat":21f6wuzz said:
Bill, where have you been trying to go to church. That's just terrible that they would say something like that to you. At our church we go to great lengths to make sure people don't have that kind of experience. It saddens me when I hear of people with these kinds of stories. Don't get discouraged Bill I know that somewhere close to you is a Bible based church that does not have that kind of attitude and would love to have you on Sunday morning.

Larry

I can tell you many more which is one reason why I created the church thread. See church thread.
 
grannysoo":mwe71c49 said:
larryshoat":mwe71c49 said:
Bill, where have you been trying to go to church. That's just terrible that they would say something like that to you. At our church we go to great lengths to make sure people don't have that kind of experience. It saddens me when I hear of people with these kinds of stories. Don't get discouraged Bill I know that somewhere close to you is a Bible based church that does not have that kind of attitude and would love to have you on Sunday morning.

Larry

If you're in a church that has that kind of attitude, then congratulations. Most of the church people are nothing more than a (insert denomination here) religious taliban. They are right, you are wrong, and if you are not part of their church, you are doomed to go to hades.

Too much religion going on....

Is there any difference between the way a church behaves and a majority society against smokers? See church thread.
 
larryshoat":ahpvqwbh said:
grannysoo":ahpvqwbh said:
larryshoat":ahpvqwbh said:
Bill, where have you been trying to go to church. That's just terrible that they would say something like that to you. At our church we go to great lengths to make sure people don't have that kind of experience. It saddens me when I hear of people with these kinds of stories. Don't get discouraged Bill I know that somewhere close to you is a Bible based church that does not have that kind of attitude and would love to have you on Sunday morning.

Larry

If you're in a church that has that kind of attitude, then congratulations. Most of the church people are nothing more than a (insert denomination here) religious taliban. They are right, you are wrong, and if you are not part of their church, you are doomed to go to hades.

Too much religion going on....

I listen most days to Dr Charles Stanley from First Baptist Church in Atlanta. I'm not Baptist, but as a Methodist I've never heard one word that would make me think that I would not be welcome in his church.That's just one example of what I would think would be a very good church in Georgia. In our area we have a ministerial association that is inter denominational and accomplishes a good bit as far as service to the community. As you say I would be wary of any church that did not link with other denominations to accomplish a larger service.

Larry

I know Dr. Stanley inside and out. Why do you think he got a divorce?
 
larryshoat":1vqwh1n0 said:
Running Arrow Bill":1vqwh1n0 said:
As a smoker myself for many years, I just tend to ignore all of the negative as well as positive "evidence" pro and con smoking. I'll live as long as I'm supposed to regardless of how I live my life (the 1960's and 1970's were great, by the way...lol).

On the other hand,

I will also agree that there are MANY things in our environment (e.g., radioactivity, solar flare rays, fumes from city industries, genetics, where we live, elusive microwaves, plastics, contaminated domestic and foreign foods, water we drink, food we eat, etc., ) that probably have as much impact on our health (or lack of it) as tobacco use. One can always find plenty of "scientific evidence" that "proves" something is good or bad for us.

Given all the stuff that we probably have absolutely no control over I find it interesting that many of the "anti-tobacco" activists are also dying premature deaths (for what ever reasons). Also, they preach that smoking is a "nasty and obscene habit"... I trust they also are aware that sex (in all it's forms) could also be considered a "dirty, nasty, and obscene" habit...ROFLOL! (Don't get me wrong...I'm not against sex...lol).

The above aside...it is, however, a little difficult to contract HIV, AIDS, STD's, Obesity, Pregnancy, etc. from smoking...LOL! Unless of course, you are also smoking too...

As such, the activists and those who are "anti" anything need something to do, I guess. Probably just like some of the religious denominations that preach that if you aren't "one of our special flock", they you are going to Hades in a handbasket...

Bill, where have you been trying to go to church. That's just terrible that they would say something like that to you. At our church we go to great lengths to make sure people don't have that kind of experience. It saddens me when I hear of people with these kinds of stories. Don't get discouraged Bill I know that somewhere close to you is a Bible based church that does not have that kind of attitude and would love to have you on Sunday morning.

Larry

Ok Larry...

Obiously I don't see the parallel between my comments on smoking and the Church issue. I don't want to get into a discussion about my own religious preferences or behavior. This is nobodys business other than my own and being an open-minded person I don't interpret anything "literally" and without the benefit of personal intellect and right to interpret what I read.

Let's not allow this (or any other thread) to sink to trying to convert any individual to other's beliefs about religion, livestock breeds, personal lifestyle, or any other potentially violatile topics of discussion. Herfordshire start this thread in a sincere manner...let's not let it get into a nasty debate
 
Ryder":1xeq48s5 said:
I give up.
Why did he get a divorce?

If you need additional hints....let me know.

Stanley's wife of over 40 years, Anna J. Stanley, originally filed for divorce on 6/22/93 following their separation in the spring of 1992, but his attorney got her to amend the lawsuit to seek a legal separation instead ("separate maintenance"), while seeking reconciliation. She again filed for divorce on 3/20/95. Anna Stanley's divorce filing asked for a jury trial (originally to begin in the first half of 1996) and sought alimony division of assets and possession of their home. Stanley claimed his "childhood difficulties" caused the problems in his marriage.
.
.
.
According to the May 23, 2000 edition of the Atlanta Journal-Constitution, Anna Stanley filed a petition, as "A.J. Stanley" requesting divorce from "C.F. Stanley," on February 16, 2000, charging their marriage of 44 years was "irretrievably broken." An Atlanta judge signed the final divorce decree May 11, 2000, following the execution of a property agreement by the Stanleys on April 5th. Stanley has retained his position as pastor of FBCA.

http://www.rapidnet.com/~jbeard/bdm/exp ... eneral.htm
 
The Conservative Baptist Preacher preached his usual "Hell Fire and Damnation" Sunday sermong. Saying, "The demon rum, whisky, cigarettes, sexx, are sinful! Let's take all of those sinful vices and Throw Them In The River!!

then...


At the end of the sermon,


The Choir Sang...

"Shall We Gather At the River..."
 
'Ah Dr Livingstone I presume' was the only Stanley I knew of....you learn something new everyday....
smokelots.gif
 
Running Arrow Bill":17akz43v said:
The Conservative Baptist Preacher preached his usual "be nice Fire and Damnation" Sunday sermong. Saying, "The demon rum, whisky, cigarettes, sexx, are sinful! Let's take all of those sinful vices and Throw Them In The River!!

then...


At the end of the sermon,


The Choir Sang...

"Shall We Gather At the River..."

That was very funny RAB as was well worth the read. You even covered smoking. LMAO :cowboy: :cowboy: :cowboy:
 
Running Arrow Bill":3o8okb5y said:
larryshoat":3o8okb5y said:
Running Arrow Bill":3o8okb5y said:
As a smoker myself for many years, I just tend to ignore all of the negative as well as positive "evidence" pro and con smoking. I'll live as long as I'm supposed to regardless of how I live my life (the 1960's and 1970's were great, by the way...lol).

On the other hand,

I will also agree that there are MANY things in our environment (e.g., radioactivity, solar flare rays, fumes from city industries, genetics, where we live, elusive microwaves, plastics, contaminated domestic and foreign foods, water we drink, food we eat, etc., ) that probably have as much impact on our health (or lack of it) as tobacco use. One can always find plenty of "scientific evidence" that "proves" something is good or bad for us.

Given all the stuff that we probably have absolutely no control over I find it interesting that many of the "anti-tobacco" activists are also dying premature deaths (for what ever reasons). Also, they preach that smoking is a "nasty and obscene habit"... I trust they also are aware that sex (in all it's forms) could also be considered a "dirty, nasty, and obscene" habit...ROFLOL! (Don't get me wrong...I'm not against sex...lol).

The above aside...it is, however, a little difficult to contract HIV, AIDS, STD's, Obesity, Pregnancy, etc. from smoking...LOL! Unless of course, you are also smoking too...

As such, the activists and those who are "anti" anything need something to do, I guess. Probably just like some of the religious denominations that preach that if you aren't "one of our special flock", they you are going to Hades in a handbasket...

Bill, where have you been trying to go to church. That's just terrible that they would say something like that to you. At our church we go to great lengths to make sure people don't have that kind of experience. It saddens me when I hear of people with these kinds of stories. Don't get discouraged Bill I know that somewhere close to you is a Bible based church that does not have that kind of attitude and would love to have you on Sunday morning.

Larry

Ok Larry...

Obiously I don't see the parallel between my comments on smoking and the Church issue. I don't want to get into a discussion about my own religious preferences or behavior. This is nobodys business other than my own and being an open-minded person I don't interpret anything "literally" and without the benefit of personal intellect and right to interpret what I read.

Let's not allow this (or any other thread) to sink to trying to convert any individual to other's beliefs about religion, livestock breeds, personal lifestyle, or any other potentially violatile topics of discussion. Herfordshire start this thread in a sincere manner...let's not let it get into a nasty debate

Fair enough Bill, wasn't trying to offend.

Larry
 
Let's not allow this (or any other thread) to sink to trying to convert any individual to other's beliefs about religion, livestock breeds, personal lifestyle, or any other potentially volatile topics of discussion. Herfordshire start this thread in a sincere manner...let's not let it get into a nasty debate[/quote]

Fair enough Bill, wasn't trying to offend.

Larry[/quote]

That is exactly what I was saying on why we are asked not to debate Religion or Politics here.
 
chrisy":1p82vx11 said:
That is exactly what I was saying on why we are asked not to debate Religion or Politics here.

I believe RAB made a nice comment about how minorities, such as smokers, are treated like outcasts, similar to the way some churches treat minority members. Very good parallel. One usually has to be a smoker to appreciate the discrimination in which he refers. It appears Larry sensed this and was trying to help RAB. I believe many of us are being treated unfairly as the result of our choice to smoke. When the topic switched to "Church" subjects, I immediately created a "Church" thread so members would be encouraged to continue the discussion.
 

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