Smoking

[HerefordSire]

....why put your body at more risk?

Please show me the scientific evidence that my body is at risk from smoking. According to the research, smoking puts my body at less risk.

what with filling your lungs up with tar and chemicals that ordinarily would not be there. I have heard the smokers cough, doesn't sound very healthy to me.
another reason I would never smoke is, lots of people with diabetes who smoke or have smoked seem to end up loosing a few toes, a foot or leg, and have hardening of the arteries. the link is of studies done on the subject. http://www.diabetes.org/diabetes-resear ... abetes.jsp

I tried to download the document through the website you referred to and they wanted me to sign up. I do not feel like signing up, so another link for another source might do, or if you are a member, maybe you can post a link here.

 

[chrisy]

sorry I have tried twice to post it over in a different format but it wouldn't let me, perhaps it lets me on as I am a member of the Diabetes Association. managed to copy and paste. here is the artical

Diabetes and Smoking
The information that smoking is bad for us is everywhere, but for diabetics, smoking can be even more damaging.

Beyond the usual reasons, why shouldn't I smoke if I have diabetes?
Smoking is now proven to be an independent risk factor for diabetes, and amongst diabetics it increases the risk of complications. Diabetes complications already include heart disease, stroke and circulation problems. Smoking adds to the risk of developing all of these things. In some cases, smoking can double the likelihood of these conditions, as well as doubling the chances of suffering from kidney problems and erectile dysfunction. For type 2 diabetics, the major cause of death is cardiovascular disease.

More Information
Diabetes complications
Heart disease
How does smoking increase my heart disease risk as a diabetic?
Diabetes can already damage the heart if it is present in the body for many years or poorly managed. A high level of glucose in the blood changes the composition of the artery walls, leaving them with an increased chance of developing fatty deposits. This in turn reduces circulation.

I am not diabetic, but I am a smoker. Could smoking lead me to develop diabetes?
Smoking is also proven to be a risk factor for insulin resistance. Patients who are insulin resistant cannot use their bodily insulin properly. Together with genetics and obesity, smoking is one of the risk factors for insulin resistance. Insulin resistance often leads to diabetes.

I am diabetic and depressed. I enjoy smoking, surely things can't get much worse?
Unfortunately, smoking amongst diabetics has been shown in some studies to increase the risk of a premature death. Smoking has been found to trigger fatalities through reductions in circulation and damaged blood vessels.

What other diabetes complications will smoking affect?
Further diabetes complications that have been proven to be aggravated by smoking include diabetic nephropathy, albuminuria. There are links between smoking and retinopathy, although these are less evident than the cardiovascular risks. Smoking is certainly a major risk factor for both the development and progression of diabetic neuropathy.

What benefits could giving up smoking give to me as a diabetic?
Stopping smoking reduces the risk of developing a major diabetes-related complication. Many diabetics do not stop because of concerns over weight gain. Some studies have proved that the benefits of giving up smoking as a diabetic actually outweigh any negative effects caused by weight gain.

I can't stop smoking, and I'm worried that it is exacerbating my diabetes, what should I do?
Your healthcare professional or healthcare team will be able to give you free advice. Taking advice on stopping smoking should be a matter of routine for all diabetics. If you are concerned about weight gain, face the issue by discussing it with your health care team.





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[HerefordSire]

I read all the stuff, but it is not scientific evidence. The document might have some and it sounded like a scientific test.

 

[chrisy]

I read all the stuff, but it is not scientific evidence. The document might have some and it sounded like a scientific test.

sorry my fault I posted the wrong one tried to delete it but you were quicker than me on the keys....here is the right one.....
The Link Between Smoking, Diabetes, Cholesterol and Hardening of the Arteries

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Smoking, diabetes, and blood cholesterol differ in their associations with subclinical atherosclerosis: the Multiethnic Study of Atherosclerosis (MESA), by A.R. Sharrett and colleagues. Atherosclerosis 186:441-447, 2006.



What is the problem and what is known about it so far?


Hardening of the arteries, known as atherosclerosis, often leads to coronary artery disease (disease of the heart's blood vessels) and results in a heart attack. Scientists believe that high cholesterol helps harden the arteries, while cigarette smoking makes it worse. The role of diabetes in hardening of the arteries isn't clear.

Why did the researchers do this particular study?


The researchers wanted to study the link between high cholesterol, smoking, and diabetes on hardening of the arteries.

Who was studied?


The study included 6,384 men and women who were between 45 and 84 years old and had no known disease of the heart or blood vessels. All participants volunteered in a study of hardening of the arteries in different ethnic groups.

How was the study done?


Each participant had a physical exam, had blood drawn for lab tests, and had an ultrasound to measure the amount of hardening of their arteries.

What did the researchers find?


The results suggest that high cholesterol starts the hardening process, while smoking makes it worse. Diabetes contributes by affecting blood vessels differently, by making them stiffer than in people without the disease.

What are the limitations of the study?


The way the researchers studied blood vessels could affect the results. There could be other substances or factors involved in hardening of the arteries that were not studied.

What are the implications of the study?


The links between smoking, cholesterol, and diabetes may help guide research into hardening of the arteries. For doctors and patients, the results suggest that the effects of poor health habits add to the problem.

 

[HerefordSire]

That is what I am saying. That is not scientific evidence. On the top of the page you just pasted there is a document link if you were actually on the web site. If you click that link it takes you to the document after you register as a member. In order to evaluate the scientific evidence, I need to read the document.

 

[chrisy]

That is what I am saying. That is not scientific evidence. On the top of the page you just pasted there is a document link if you were actually on the web site. If you click that link it takes you to the document after you register as a member. In order to evaluate the scientific evidence, I need to read the document.

I am a member, but sorry it won't let me copy and paste that section.

 

[grannysoo]

TY MO_cows. It will get much worse just like the fanatics did with prohibition. Alcohol lengthens lifespan also. Ask the Greeks. They drink every day and live very long.

I'm going home to tonight to tell Jack that you said that. :banana: :banana: :banana:

You must get paid on Fridays. :banana: :banana: :banana:

:lol2: :lol2: Actually, we have a talk every night before bedtime....

 

[TexasBred]

....why put your body at more risk?

Please show me the scientific evidence that my body is at risk from smoking. According to the research, smoking puts my body at less risk.

COPD.......http://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/health/public/lung/copd/

 

[HerefordSire]

....why put your body at more risk?

Please show me the scientific evidence that my body is at risk from smoking. According to the research, smoking puts my body at less risk.

COPD.......http://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/health/public/lung/copd/

I appreciate the reply but I see no scientific evidence on your link. I have a feeling it is all negative opinion and no scientific evidence. The link you referred to could be caused by radioactive particles in the atmospere as the result of nuclear testing, etc.

 

[SRBeef]

Something tells me that I should not wade into this topic - smokers can always find a justification to continue regardless of whatever information is provided. My son is an example of that.

However in my case I am 100% convinced that my father died years before he would have if he had not been a smoker. Not only that but for years his mental capacity and ability to relate to other family members was reduced by a lack of oxygen to his brain.

Doctors said he had "dementia". He had his first heart attack and they put him on oxygen and suddenly you coulld talk with him again like his old self. "Dementia" turned out to be a smoking induced (lung capacity gone) oxygen deprivation of the brain.

The really sad thing is that he had seen a friend die of lung problems 10 or 15 years before and suddenly got the will power to quit but it was too late. When he died my Dad had been off cigarettes for 10-15 years but the damage was done and is irreversible.

Anyone who wants to dispute the health hazards of smoking should have to sit in a hospital for days and finally have to come to the decision to shut off life support for your Dad who is prematurely brain dead due to lungs that aren't working due to smoking.

Yet others, including one of my sons, continue smoking sure that they are different and invincible. There is always the example of folks who "lived to a ripe old age and and smoked a pack a day".... yeah, right.

Folks who play Russian Roulette long term tend to lose.

 

[HerefordSire]

Something tells me that I should not wade into this topic - smokers can always find a justification to continue regardless of whatever information is provided. My son is an example of that.

However in my case I am 100% convinced that my father died years before he would have if he had not been a smoker. Not only that but for years his mental capacity and ability to relate to other family members was reduced by a lack of oxygen to his brain.

Doctors said he had "dementia". He had his first heart attack and they put him on oxygen and suddenly you coulld talk with him again like his old self. "Dementia" turned out to be a smoking induced (lung capacity gone) oxygen deprivation of the brain.

The really sad thing is that he had seen a friend die of lung problems 10 or 15 years before and suddenly got the will power to quit but it was too late. When he died my Dad had been off cigarettes for 10-15 years but the damage was done and is irreversible.

Anyone who wants to dispute the health hazards of smoking should have to sit in a hospital for days and finally have to come to the decision to shut off life support for your Dad who is prematurely brain dead due to lungs that aren't working due to smoking.

Yet others, including one of my sons, continue smoking sure that they are different and invincible. There is always the example of folks who "lived to a ripe old age and and smoked a pack a day".... yeah, right.

Folks who play Russian Roulette long term tend to lose.

During the mid 1300s, the black plague killed 22M people. Many Christians thought is was because of sin and the people were being punished. They killed Jews and women for no valid reason. There are reports that it wiped out half of the populations where it hit. What happened is the wealthy landowners did not have the labor to work the farms. The peasants that were alive started owning their own farms because commodity supply was scarce. Eventually, the wealthy began retaliating to get labor to work the farms.

Could be a similar now when the radioactive particles in the air we are breathing after all the nuclear testing. Smoking is an easy target, just like sin back then. This could explain the statistics I posted on the first page. Regardless, I don't expect anyone to think for themselves. It is always more healthy to think like the masses think. Don't you agree?

 

[SRBeef]

...Could be a similar now when the radioactive particles in the air we are breathing after all the nuclear testing. Smoking is an easy target, just like sin back then. This could explain the statistics I posted on the first page. Regardless, I don't expect anyone to think for themselves. It is always more healthy to think like the masses think. Don't you agree?[/i]

As I said in my post above:

1) I probably should not wade into this topic at all

2) Smokers can come up with all sorts of theories and reasons to continue to smoke, many of which defy logic and mountains of evidence.

As an engineer, I remember one course on engine design where the professor was talking about and comparing, in great numerical and chemical detail, the exhaust from an internal combustion engine and cigarette smoke. The conclusion:

You are better off health-wise sticking your head in the exhaust pipe of your car than you are smoking cigarettes. You can go through the chemistry of both exhaust gases and cigarette gases and compare the effects on the human body.

I'm sure there are those who can and will argue with that statement also.

Enough said on this topic, by me anyway.

Jim

 

[HerefordSire]

All the comments sound familiar....I wonder what the real truth is.


Anti-tobacco movement in Nazi Germany

A Nazi anti-smoking ad titled "The chain-smoker" saying "He does not devour it [the cigarette], it devours him"After German doctors became the first to identify the link between smoking and lung cancer[1][2] Nazi Germany initiated a strong anti-tobacco movement[3] and led the first public anti-smoking campaign in modern history.[4] Anti-tobacco movements grew in many nations from the beginning of the 20th century,[5][6] but these had little success, except in Germany, where the campaign was supported by the government after the Nazis came to power.[5] It was the most powerful anti-smoking movement in the world during the 1930s and early 1940s.[7] The National Socialist leadership condemned smoking[8] and several of them openly criticized tobacco consumption.[7] Research on smoking and its effects on health thrived under Nazi rule[9] and was the most important of its type at that time.[10] Adolf Hitler's personal distaste for tobacco[11] and the Nazi reproductive policies were among the motivating factors behind their campaign against smoking, and this campaign was associated with both antisemitism and racism.[12]

The Nazi anti-tobacco campaign included banning smoking in trams, buses and city trains,[7] promoting health education,[13] limiting cigarette rations in the Wehrmacht, organizing medical lectures for soldiers, and raising the tobacco tax.[7] The National Socialists also imposed restrictions on tobacco advertising and smoking in public spaces, and regulated restaurants and coffeehouses.[7] The anti-tobacco movement did not have much effect in the early years of the Nazi regime and tobacco use increased between 1933 and 1939,[14] but smoking by military personnel declined from 1939 to 1945.[15] Even by the end of the 20th century, the anti-smoking movement in postwar Germany had not attained the influence of the Nazi anti-smoking campaign.[14]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-tobac ... zi_Germany

 

[chrisy]

Does it really matter what anyone thinks? if you want to smoke, smoke if you don't, don't, it's an individuals choice as no one will come up with an answer to satisfy both sides. As the old saying goes 'If God wanted me to smoke, he would have put a chimney on my head' and as he didn't I personally don't.

 

[Limomike]

Well said Chrisy.
I have had two uncles who smoked everyday live to be in their 90's. One aunt to lived to be 78.
But then again, another uncle who chewed Beechnut tabacco and ended up getting lymph node cancer at 52 and died. So... go figure. Genetics always plays a role in all we do.

 

[HerefordSire]

Does it really matter what anyone thinks? if you want to smoke, smoke if you don't, don't, it's an individuals choice as no one will come up with an answer to satisfy both sides. As the old saying goes 'If God wanted me to smoke, he would have put a chimney on my head' and as he didn't I personally don't.

Yes, it does matter as long as I am the guilty one (as in smoking). For example, if sugar fanatics (obese people) were causing health care to sky rocket, and I am not obese, then I would agree with you since I do not care for sugar, except during the fermenting process. However, since I smoke once or twice per week, I disagree with you, since I am an occassional user and the increased taxes are not justified, in my view.

 

[HerefordSire]

Well said Chrisy.
I have had two uncles who smoked everyday live to be in their 90's. One aunt to lived to be 78.
But then again, another uncle who chewed Beechnut tabacco and ended up getting lymph node cancer at 52 and died. So... go figure. Genetics always plays a role in all we do.

Check out this snippet I found...

I am lawyer and, in particular, a trial lawyer. In the law, there is something called the burden of proof. The anti-smoking crowd insists that smokers prove to them that smoking is not harmful. That's a trap. Nobody can prove a negative, i.e., that something is not so.

 

[grannysoo]

since I do not care for sugar, except during the fermenting process. [/i]

That's the only use I have for most sugar too...

Proving a negative is an impossible thing as you have mentioned. Now I don't want to get this thread locked so I won't say that 99.999999999999999% of everything that our government has told us is nothing more than bovine dung. I don't know if smoking harms you or not and as long as their is so much money in government, we'll never know the truth.

I do know that I quit smoking 4+ years ago and really don't feel any better.

People can do as they wish as long as I don't have to pay for it.

 

[HerefordSire]

since I do not care for sugar, except during the fermenting process. [/i]

That's the only use I have for most sugar too...

Proving a negative is an impossible thing as you have mentioned. Now I don't want to get this thread locked so I won't say that 99.999999999999999% of everything that our government has told us is nothing more than bovine dung. I don't know if smoking harms you or not and as long as their is so much money in government, we'll never know the truth.

I do know that I quit smoking 4+ years ago and really don't feel any better.

People can do as they wish as long as I don't have to pay for it.

The following data looks like someone is pulling the wool over someone's eyes (also similar data on page one of thread)...

Top 15 Male Life Expectancies

............. LE (years) Smokers (%)
1. Iceland 76.6 (1994) 31.0 (1994)
2. Japan 76.5 (1994) 59.0 (1994)
3. Costa Rica 75.9 (1994) 35.0 (1988)
4. Israel 75.9 (1994) 45.0 (1990)
5. Sweden 75.5 (1994) 22.0 (1994)
6. Greece 75.2 (1994) 46.0 (1994)
7. Switzerland 74.8 (1994) 36.0 (1992)
8. Netherlands 74.7 (1994) 36.0 (1994)
9. Canada 74.7 (1994) 31.0 (1991)
10. Cuba 74.7 (1994) 49.3 (1990)
11. Australia 74.5 (1994) 29.0 (1993)
12. Spain 74.5 (1994) 48.0 (1993)
13. Malta 74.5 (1994) 40.0 (1992)
14. Italy 74.4 (1994) 38.0 (1994)
15. France 74.3 (1994) 40.0 (1993)
USA 72.6 (1994) 28.1 (1991)

If, as the anti smokers postulate, smoking is a deadly "addiction", trimming years off the life of the smoker, how do they explain such examples as Japan, Israel, Greece, Cuba, Spain, Italy and France? How can it be that people in these countries smoke far more than people in the United States, yet manage to live substantially longer?

 

[chrisy]

Because their diet is much better, not a lot of saturated fats to harden the arteries, they drink Red Wine with their meals, aids digestion and helps also with the thinning of the blood, they seem to exercise more regularly and the French are a much slimmer race, you very rarely see a fat French man or woman. Most Mediterranean Countries eat more healthily it's their way of life, fish, pasta, tomatoes and lean meats, olive oil instead of butter and such other animal fats, and wine in moderation. plus lots and lots of Sunshine. and on travelling a lot of the Med: Countries I haven't seen a lot people smoking, seems they are giving up the habit to. It is mostly the Baltic Countries where a lot of the men smoke, you very rarely see women smoking.