Simmentals!

[Jovid]

Well 3way if you half as smart as i think we are, we will go today and buy a couple of simmentals cows to throw in with our herds. Sounds to me like just there presence in the pasture should help our cows.

So do we buy the fullboold red and white ones or do we have to buy those black ones you know the ones with the "A" word in them that made them black? :lol2: :lol2:

 

[Red Bull Breeder]

I am a thinking it would have to be the blacks one Jovid, i am a thinking they call the red and white one Fleckvieh now adays.

 

[Jovid]

I am a thinking it would have to be the blacks one Jovid, i am a thinking they call the red and white one Fleckvieh now adays.

So I have to buy a mixed breed and not a fullblood?.... :lol2:

 

[dun]

I am a thinking it would have to be the blacks one Jovid, i am a thinking they call the red and white one Fleckvieh now adays.

So I have to buy a mixed breed and not a fullblood?.... :lol2:

No, a fullblood not a purebred.

 

[Red Bull Breeder]

Dun in another thread you said you was a thinking about selling because you couldn't handle the breeding any more. If you had Simmentals They would breed just by waving a straw of semen past there asss.

 

[dun]

Dun in another thread you said you was a thinking about selling because you couldn't handle the breeding any more. If you had Simmentals They would breed just by waving a straw of semen past there asss.

Ol Granny is almost like that, all I have to do is say, going to get the semen now and she settles. Oh, I forgot, she's a black Angus and I breed her to a Simmenthal, Fleckvieh really

 

[thommoos]

You all are killing me!!! Now with all this going on do you think the newbee might be a little confused, I keep looking for some kind of reply but yet to see it in the last few pages.

 

[Jovid]

You all are killing me!!! Now with all this going on do you think the newbee might be a little confused, I keep looking for some kind of reply but yet to see it in the last few pages.

JS is not a newbee......this is just a new name.....

 

[3waycross]

You all are killing me!!! Now with all this going on do you think the newbee might be a little confused, I keep looking for some kind of reply but yet to see it in the last few pages.

JS is not a newbee......this is just a new name.....

aaaaaw Jovid now you had to go and spoil the surprise ;-)

 

[kenny thomas]

I do not agree with much that JS said when talking about breeds as a whole. I do use simmy bulls but also one Angus bull and even one Charolais and see good points in the Limi, GV's, Red angus, Hereford and many others. Just don't see many of them selling crossbred except the Simm/Angus in this area.
If the origional poster is set on breeding Simmental X the Simm/Angus bulls seem to be the ones selling best in the east. Lost of them bring very good prices.

 

[JustSimmental]

To answer your question Simmental and Blk Angus will definately work best and here is my information when looking at the various breeds:
http://www.beefcattlebiz.com/support-files/abepd.pdf



This data chart was first published by the Virginia Cooperative Extension Service in 2009; then again in August of 2010. Here is that link: http://pubs.ext.vt.edu/news/livestock/2010/08/LU-08-01-10-4.html

Again, this same chart was published in The Register Dec/Jan issue 2011.

This is a guide to help ranchers choose crosses best suited for meat production, which doesn't always mean weight; nevertheless, as you can see thru their chart (which is the chart I provided) some breeds are very much lacking.

The sooner we can get all breeds EPD's (of economic importance) balanced as ONE-- the sooner most ranchers will have a better understanding of them. One set would greatly simplify a currently messed up "EPD by breed" scenario.

I didnt provide this to put down any certain breeds, but just to get the thought processes rolling on Across Breed EPD's.

Would this hurt a few breeds? YES, some breeds as you can see like Brahman influenced cattle just won't make the "mark" in the meat business. Are they good cattle ---sure-- they have their place--somewhere in a harsh climate.

Look at the King Ranch-- they knew Gerts weren't making the grade and what did they do? They developed another breed that was better in the carcass merit traits that could survive in their environ. Basically the 3/8's brahman influenced cattle-- dont make the mark. We are in the "beef business" ya know....... some people still call it the cattle business, but it is really the beef business where quality pounds always pay more than quantity pounds.

This info has been available for yearssssssss. I didn't just dig this up somewhere.
Maybe you should join the 21st Century and get up to date on your knowledge base.

Maybe you could relate to those of us raising all those terrible cattle listed on your chart where that data came from. I see a lot of contradictions there as they relate to my real world experience.

I realize this would be considered anecdotal but the YW data I an seeing in various sale catalogues from around the country do not bear out your data.[/quote]

 

[JustSimmental]

Just because the cow is red and white doesn't make her a Fleckvieh. The term Fleckvieh is for the Fullbloods only represented as FB. PB is the designation for Purebred. If you want to talk Simms-- first lets get a better understanding of Simmental, in general. Ok

ty JS

I am a thinking it would have to be the blacks one Jovid, i am a thinking they call the red and white one Fleckvieh now adays.

 

[JustSimmental]

I think anyone can agree to disagree --thats fine and I appreciate your post. These other people that "feel stepped on" by my posts have no real message to share, but ridicule for me --- for telling the truth about their chosen breeds.

I do think that the Sim/Ang cross is the best one for meat production.

I think others are confused with my message, which is --- I am not in this business to produce a Select or Low choice carcass, which as you can see in the chart--many are. Thats fine with me as Walmart and McDonalds do need their burger. Currently the Packer wants Med choice YG 2 and has for yearsss.... Will your breed or cross breed consistenetly deliver above Medium choice YG 2?

Many on that chart WILL NOT.

JS

I do not agree with much that JS said when talking about breeds as a whole. I do use simmy bulls but also one Angus bull and even one Charolais and see good points in the Limi, GV's, Red angus, Hereford and many others. Just don't see many of them selling crossbred except the Simm/Angus in this area.
If the origional poster is set on breeding Simmental X the Simm/Angus bulls seem to be the ones selling best in the east. Lost of them bring very good prices.

 

[Jovid]

I think anyone can agree to disagree --thats fine and I appreciate your post. These other people that "feel stepped on" by my posts have no real message to share, but ridicule for me --- for telling the truth about their chosen breeds.

I do think that the Sim/Ang cross is the best one for meat production.

I think others are confused with my message, which is --- I am not in this business to produce a Select or Low choice carcass, which as you can see in the chart--many are. Thats fine with me as Walmart and McDonalds do need their burger. Currently the Packer wants Med choice YG 2 and has for yearsss.... Will your breed or cross breed consistenetly deliver above Medium choice YG 2?

Many on that chart WILL NOT.

JS

I do not agree with much that JS said when talking about breeds as a whole. I do use simmy bulls but also one Angus bull and even one Charolais and see good points in the Limi, GV's, Red angus, Hereford and many others. Just don't see many of them selling crossbred except the Simm/Angus in this area.
If the origional poster is set on breeding Simmental X the Simm/Angus bulls seem to be the ones selling best in the east. Lost of them bring very good prices.

YES!

 

[3waycross]

Here are some weights from a recent bull sale in Colorado. All bulls avgeraged were yearlings, and these were their SALE weights. Not totally scientific but VERY interesting nevertheless.

15 Angus bulls Avg 1077lbs
30 Balancers Avg 1137lbs
35 Sim-Angus AVG 1136lbs

10 2yr old Balancers avg 1456lbs
4 2yr old Sim-Angus bulls avg 1598lbs This on the surface would seem to give the edge to the Simangus except for a couple of things. It would lead me to believe that they would also carry a much higher mature weight, eat more and have to go down the road at an earlier age due to breaking
down either themselves or the cows they were breeding. I know several ranchers who had to sell bulls this year due to them
stifling cows.

BTW these bulls were in the same lot on the same feed segreted loosely by size into 3 different pens so that the larger bulls would compete against their own size peer group. You draw your own conclusions.

 

[JustSimmental]

Simm-- Blk Angus do the best

Simm-- Red Angus are ok depends alot on the Red Angus as they tend to be low on growth and carcass merits, but one redeeming quality I have found is they can help rid you of the diluter gene in Simm. Also red cattle do better in the heat. Brown Commitment has good carcass merits in RA

Shorthorn isnt too bad. I dont like their big frames and birth weights or their huge milk production that tends to increase maintenance costs for the brood cow herd. Serious hay burners. Shorthorn Angus be a good one to cross, but now we are talking Murray Grey and not Simm.

I really like Beefmaster as I used to have quite a few of them. The biggest issue with them is the 50% Brahman, which kills the carcass merit. 3/8's Brahman or above is a carcass merit killer. Good in the heat tho. beefmaster Simm wouldnt be a good cross. BM x PBAN would be.

Charolais are good cattle, but those huge frames I dont want or need. They have had some issues with calving troubles in the past and I know they have been working on that like Simmental has. Great growth trailts, moderate milk production, which is really good, first rate REA, but marbling -- not good. won't work well with Simm

Limmys just have few redeeming qualities for meat unless you are selling to Laura's lean beef; REA is great, but the rest including growth and Milk is pretty bad. Won't work with Simm

Simm --- Blk Angus work best

JS

what breeds go well with Simmentals?
planning on breeding composite bulls and selling them.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

the majority of continentals breeds dont cross well together,, thats why the simmi do better with angus..just like charolais and limmi cross with them and other british breeds

 

[angusdave63]

js i agree with everything you said in your last post {and i am not being a smart a...} but our market here localy does not give a hoot about beef or carcass quality all they look at is how finished they are. i am not sure where they are moving these cattle to but last sat at the sale barn when the fats sold a hereford topped the sale then a hxa was next high selling no carcass data on any of these cattle. just a couple looks from the buyers and then they start bidding. this is in east central indiana as for cnsdo i am looking for one of his sons. i am looking for a simmi with 3 generations on the sire side with good ce so i will be able to breed heifers or cows with the bull

 

[3waycross]

Simm-- Blk Angus do the best

Simm-- Red Angus are ok depends alot on the Red Angus as they tend to be low on growth and carcass merits, but one redeeming quality I have found is they can help rid you of the diluter gene in Simm. Also red cattle do better in the heat. Brown Commitment has good carcass merits in RA

Shorthorn isnt too bad. I dont like their big frames and birth weights or their huge milk production that tends to increase maintenance costs for the brood cow herd. Serious hay burners. Shorthorn Angus be a good one to cross, but now we are talking Murray Grey and not Simm. :bs: :bs: :bs:

I really like Beefmaster as I used to have quite a few of them. The biggest issue with them is the 50% Brahman, which kills the carcass merit. 3/8's Brahman or above is a carcass merit killer. Good in the heat tho. beefmaster Simm wouldnt be a good cross. BM x PBAN would be.

Charolais are good cattle, but those huge frames I dont want or need. They have had some issues with calving troubles in the past and I know they have been working on that like Simmental has. Great growth trailts, moderate milk production, which is really good, first rate REA, but marbling -- not good. won't work well with Simm

Limmys just have few redeeming qualities for meat unless you are selling to Laura's lean beef; REA is great, but the rest including growth and Milk is pretty bad. Won't work with Simm
Simm --- Blk Angus work best

JS

Every day you find a way to say the same things and they are just as much :bs: today as they were yesterday. You are the master of the rash generalization. You also seem to have a real talent for ignoring the things you do not want to hear like how much more it takes to get these startling world changing results you keep talking about. Everything I have highlighted is either pure :bs: such as the Murray Grey remark or outdated rash generalization. Just as the average Simental is not a Fleckvieh today most of the other breeds have made improvements over the last few years. I notice you had nothing to say in rebuttal to my post about the numbers from the bull sale. BTW I have the hard data to back me up on what I posted.

 

[Isomade]

Simm-- Blk Angus do the best

Simm-- Red Angus are ok depends alot on the Red Angus as they tend to be low on growth and carcass merits, but one redeeming quality I have found is they can help rid you of the diluter gene in Simm. Also red cattle do better in the heat. Brown Commitment has good carcass merits in RA

Shorthorn isnt too bad. I dont like their big frames and birth weights or their huge milk production that tends to increase maintenance costs for the brood cow herd. Serious hay burners. Shorthorn Angus be a good one to cross, but now we are talking Murray Grey and not Simm. :bs: :bs: :bs:

I really like Beefmaster as I used to have quite a few of them. The biggest issue with them is the 50% Brahman, which kills the carcass merit. 3/8's Brahman or above is a carcass merit killer. Good in the heat tho. beefmaster Simm wouldnt be a good cross. BM x PBAN would be.





Charolais are good cattle, but those huge frames I dont want or need. They have had some issues with calving troubles in the past and I know they have been working on that like Simmental has. Great growth trailts, moderate milk production, which is really good, first rate REA, but marbling -- not good. won't work well with Simm

Limmys just have few redeeming qualities for meat unless you are selling to Laura's lean beef; REA is great, but the rest including growth and Milk is pretty bad. Won't work with Simm
Simm --- Blk Angus work best

JS

Every day you find a way to say the same things and they are just as much :bs: today as
they were yesterday. You are the master of the rash generalization. You also seem to have a real talent for ignoring the things you do not want to hear like how much more it takes to get these startling world changing results you keep talking about. Everything I have highlighted is either pure :bs: such as the Murray Grey remark or outdated rash generalization. Just as the average Simental is not a Fleckvieh today most of the other breeds have made improvements over the last few years. I notice you had nothing to say in rebuttal to my post about the numbers from the bull sale. BTW I have the hard data to back me up on what I posted.

And at the end of the day the only thing that matters is what works on YOUR ranch in YOUR area. I use Char bulls and to hear JS talk you would think I pull every calf. Never mind that I am smart enough to select proper bloodlines and pull very few and most years ZERO. And this from 1900 plus pound bulls. Most breeds have made great strides over the last 20 years.