Simmentals!

Gather App
3way you just gonna have to give it up. I no when i been licked, figured it when ed told me i needed to learn the difference in fullbloods and purebreeds. Everbody knows there ain't no fullblood Limousin.
 
Boy - I'm gone for a while & look what happens.
JS - PLEASE take the word SIMMENTAL out of your name. You do more harm to MY breed than any "Simmental breed basher" could ever think of doing!
Yes, Across EPD's are useful and have been around for many years. But, they are a TOOL to use.
Remember, there are more differences WITHIN a breed than there are ACROSS breeds.
Doc - you need to get acquainted with the new modern breeds. In any one area, "most" breeds are running pretty close in frame to each other. When I go to shows or exhibits where there are all breeds, you can't see very much difference in frame.
My "show winning" cattle are frame 5. All cattle in the Northeast tend to be bigger than the cattle in the South & West. They are born bigger & grow bigger - and rightfully so. We have the forage for them. Our forage would be wasted on small frame cows - and we are docked for small frame steers. Very few COWS in this area weigh less than 1300#.
 
Red Bull Breeder":2txl4uxb said:
Come on folks you just read why we are all raising the wrong breeds of cattle.
Click to expand...

Jeez, it must really suck to find out you've been so wrong all these years. Did any of you actually make any money selling such inferior cattle? :P
 
VanC":2pbeejnw said:
Red Bull Breeder":2pbeejnw said:
Come on folks you just read why we are all raising the wrong breeds of cattle.
Click to expand...

Jeez, it must really suck to find out you've been so wrong all these years. Did any of you actually make any money selling such inferior cattle? :P
Click to expand...
Well, at least "I'M" doing it right!
 
Well jeanne i have had some fun at your breeds expense, but more so picking at Justsimmental. So if you can get a laugh or to poking fun at me have at it. :lol: Justsimmental is more fun than TnMBP.
 
Jeanne - Simme Valley":yi6ie0yr said:
Boy - I'm gone for a while & look what happens.
JS - PLEASE take the word SIMMENTAL out of your name. You do more harm to MY breed than any "Simmental breed basher" could ever think of doing!
Yes, Across EPD's are useful and have been around for many years. But, they are a TOOL to use.
Remember, there are more differences WITHIN a breed than there are ACROSS breeds.
Doc - you need to get acquainted with the new modern breeds. In any one area, "most" breeds are running pretty close in frame to each other. When I go to shows or exhibits where there are all breeds, you can't see very much difference in frame.
My "show winning" cattle are frame 5. All cattle in the Northeast tend to be bigger than the cattle in the South & West. They are born bigger & grow bigger - and rightfully so. We have the forage for them. Our forage would be wasted on small frame cows - and we are docked for small frame steers. Very few COWS in this area weigh less than 1300#.
Click to expand...

Jeanne-

I empathize with your angst when breeders mis-understand certain terms and inferences, however, I go back to my "IF" phrase in my post on this thread. Oh...and by the way, I am very well acquainted with most of the new "modern" breeds. I am not living in the dark ages as you may presume. Taking every aspect of profitable production into consideration, whether they are from the "Northeast" or not, sensible protocols and genetics seems to work, WHENEVER and WHEREVER it has been tried. This is why there are Agricultural Experiment Stations and Agricultural Foundations in abundance. They have discovered a lot of details that perhaps you have overlooked in your rather secluded area, in spite of the number of "competing" show animals you review on a regular basis.

DOC HARRIS
 
Jeanne - Simme Valley":3qy9a7ab said:
VanC":3qy9a7ab said:
Red Bull Breeder":3qy9a7ab said:
Come on folks you just read why we are all raising the wrong breeds of cattle.
Click to expand...

Jeez, it must really suck to find out you've been so wrong all these years. Did any of you actually make any money selling such inferior cattle? :P
Click to expand...
Well, at least "I'M" doing it right!
Click to expand...

Well, I'd say you're on the right track. The next step is to start raising the type of cattle OTHERS say you should and then feed them the way OTHERS say you should. ;-)
 
I'm going to end this by saying, that we are never all going to agree ,but what most the time it comes down to is Heavy Black cattle are more commin in the NE and corn belt Herford are more commin out west, and Small, less black, cattle that can stand the heat are more commin in the south. Now untill we all conform to one breed we are never going to agree,and are better off leaving each other alone so we don't step on to many toes.
Cause remember that dumb kid from a year ago that said his mind. You all seemed not to happy when someone spoke out againest your breed, but now the table has been turn, and it would be better off not been turn at all.


You can fight it out if you like but i'm going to stop, because it comes down to a Bull breeding a Cow, a Cow having a Calf, a Calf being fed, and being buchtered for meat, and you raising the calf that makes you money.....and that's all it is.



Sim.-Ang. King
 
sim.-ang.king":39zzf9zz said:
I'm going to end this by saying, that we are never all going to agree ,but what most the time it comes down to is Heavy Black cattle are more commin in the NE and corn belt Herford are more commin out west, and Small, less black, cattle that can stand the heat are more commin in the south. Now untill we all conform to one breed we are never going to agree,and are better off leaving each other alone so we don't step on to many toes.
Cause remember that dumb kid from a year ago that said his mind. You all seemed not to happy when someone spoke out againest your breed, but now the table has been turn, and it would be better off not been turn at all.


You can fight it out if you like but i'm going to stop, because it comes down to a Bull breeding a Cow, a Cow having a Calf, a Calf being fed, and being buchtered for meat, and you raising the calf that makes you money.....and that's all it is.


Yeah. I seldom post anything and kinda wish I'd just walked around this thread.
But, life is good and none of this should have any bearing on how anyone here operates, or which breed, or crossbreed they find works for their particular situation.

fitz



Sim.-Ang. King
Click to expand...
 
Doc - sorry you misunderstood me. I definately don't have your eloquent skills of communication. I sure didn't mean to imply you didn't know cattle.
All I meant to point out, was that cattle in the NE might be quite a lot bigger than in other areas - BUT - pretty much all the cattle, regardless of the breed, are all about the same size - for each area. I naturally refer to looking at cattle at shows, because that is a part of my life, but, I should have referred to all the feedlot cattle & bulls on feedout programs, and heifers in the Heifer Development Program. There are very little differences in frame size and mature sizes.
And, actually, medium to large frame (5-6.5) cattle are economically profitable for this area. Small frame cattle (3.5 - 4) are docked at the sales, and the cows are unable to utilize the great forage, getting extremely overconditioned & not producing any heavier calf, without utilizing as large a frame bull as they can easily calve to. Now, if someone is looking to produce grass fed only beef, then they need to keep the frame size smaller.
There is no one answer to the "right" size cow. This has been debated for eternity. Without producers like myself, providing moderate framed, heavy muscled bulls to put on smaller, lower maintenance cows, those cows would not be nearly as profitable.
We will never agree on cow size. I totally agree that the frame 7-9 cow (which I used to have & still have a few 7's) is higher maintenance compared to a frame 4. But, we all produce the best product for our environment that will make us the most $$$$$$. And, I have a pretty good handle on that. :banana:
sim.-ang.king wrote:
I'm going to end this by saying, that we are never all going to agree ,but what most the time it comes down to is Heavy Black cattle are more commin in the NE and corn belt Herford are more commin out west, and Small, less black, cattle that can stand the heat are more commin in the south. Now untill we all conform to one breed we are never going to agree,and are better off leaving each other alone so we don't step on to many toes."
Well said.
 
Jeanne --- first of all --it's not "Your Breed". But I am not here to argue with you about that or anything else. What I would like to see is one set of balanced EPD's so that cattleman regardless of breed could then make better decisions on bull purchasing based on the real numbers.

As you know, Angus cattle are working off 1974 indices, which gives a false impression of their true merits. There has been a lot of genetic change since 1974--- would you agree?

One set of EPD's for all breeds would hurt a few breeds, yes, and help a few breeds, but would then be an even better tool for good decision making. I think it is part of the job of the purebred breeder to inform and educate (if need be) the commercial and purebred cattleman about the importance of EPD's as a tool for good decision making. EPD's aren't everything --we all know this, but my analogy for buying a bull without regard for EPD's is like buying hay without a forage sample; it can be green and smell great, touch all the senses, BUT YOU JUST CANT TELL BY LOOKING-- can you? After all when someone buys a bull or cow from you, dont you want them to prosper?

Another point: Haven't you ever sent a bull to a University feed /forage program where Angus bulls outnumbered Simmis 30 to 1?; and misinformed bull buyers are seen paying 5K for Angus bulls with worse EPD's than either your Simms or other breeds due to this false impression brought on by using outdated numbers.

What this does is these guys that are "banking" on higher WW's are actually losing at the scales because their MYYTY in Focus calves are lighter than if they used a Char or Simm or other breeds. By not having one set of "balanced EPD's", commercial cattle producers are losing money. They look at those WW and YW EPD's in Angus and since they are higher they choose them over Simmi or Char or BM. Keeping bull buyers in the dark is not helping anyone.


Jeanne - Simme Valley":2sa66o6q said:
Boy - I'm gone for a while & look what happens.
JS - PLEASE take the word SIMMENTAL out of your name. You do more harm to MY breed than any "Simmental breed basher" could ever think of doing!

Yes, Across EPD's are useful and have been around for many years. But, they are a TOOL to use.
Remember, there are more differences WITHIN a breed than there are ACROSS breeds.

I just dont believe that Jeanne---that there are more differences within breed than across breeds-- I think you may be backward on that. Last time I looked there was many differences between PB Simmis and BeefMaster -- don't ya think?

Doc - you need to get acquainted with the new modern breeds. In any one area, "most" breeds are running pretty close in frame to each other. When I go to shows or exhibits where there are all breeds, you can't see very much difference in frame.


My "show winning" cattle are frame 5. All cattle in the Northeast tend to be bigger than the cattle in the South & West. They are born bigger & grow bigger - and rightfully so. We have the forage for them. Our forage would be wasted on small frame cows - and we are docked for small frame steers. Very few COWS in this area weigh less than 1300#.
Click to expand...

I just don't believe that cattle in the NE are bigger than cattle in the south and west. Thats great that you have award winning cattle in the show ring, but I have seen few show calves that ever had much performance when taken off the bucket and thrown out on the pasture.

"They are born bigger and grow bigger due to your forage base. Your forage would be wasted on small frame cows'?-- really?

You don't think about cattle on a production standpoint -- you are stuck in the show ring, where none of that matters out here in the pasture. In a Production Unit, it's about pounds of beef produced not about what size cows would be a waste of forage on your farm. I find that talk to be ludicrous at best.

For example:
If you had a forage base of 700,000 lbs per year and you had 1600 lb cows and 1250 lb cows, which ones would be more profitable?

The 1250's would be because "those smaller frame cows" (that you deem unworthy to graze your awesome forages) have lower maintenance costs per cow than do your worthy 1600's. With lower maintenance costs you could have more 1250 lb cows and even with their potentially lower weaning weights; a higher stocking rate = more calves which = more lbs of beef, which = more $$

See where we outside the show ring are coming from?

I'd put any of my PB Simms against any of your ex show ponies based on performance. I have a very common Blk Irish KS cow here at home that is a 5yr old, she has had 3 calves since she was 2 yrs old all bull calves. She has never been in a trailer much less a show ring. This years calf crossed the scales at 190 days at 832 lbs. His Sire GW Lucky Man. His API is 120 and TI is 72. We castrate calves below API 120 and TI below 70.

Shoot bring your best >> Macho as U
CE = 13.1
BW= -3.4
WW = +10
YW = +34
MCE = 4.5
MM = 4.6
MWW = 9.6
CW = -21
YG = +0.02
Marb = +0.03
BF = +0.03
REA = -0.09
API = 118
TI = 53

On a "production standpoint" would this individual be beneficial for pounds of beef produced, WW. YW, carcass weight, YG, IMF, REA, BF?

I don't know Doc, but maybe you need to get aquainted with the new modern breeds, so you aren't doing more harm to "MY breed" than any "Simmental breed basher" could ever think of doing!

JS







Jeanne - Simme Valley":2sa66o6q said:
Boy - I'm gone for a while & look what happens.
JS - PLEASE take the word SIMMENTAL out of your name. You do more harm to MY breed than any "Simmental breed basher" could ever think of doing!
Yes, Across EPD's are useful and have been around for many years. But, they are a TOOL to use.
Remember, there are more differences WITHIN a breed than there are ACROSS breeds.
Doc - you need to get acquainted with the new modern breeds. In any one area, "most" breeds are running pretty close in frame to each other. When I go to shows or exhibits where there are all breeds, you can't see very much difference in frame.
My "show winning" cattle are frame 5. All cattle in the Northeast tend to be bigger than the cattle in the South & West. They are born bigger & grow bigger - and rightfully so. We have the forage for them. Our forage would be wasted on small frame cows - and we are docked for small frame steers. Very few COWS in this area weigh less than 1300#.
Click to expand...
 
Have to agree my boots arent big enough for this :bs: either, I guess we all have to come to the conclusion that the simmental breed is far superior than any other breed and is by far the best cross, thanks for letting us know this.
 

Latest posts

Back
Top