Red Bull Breeder
Well-known member
This fellar is more fun the the Tn masterbaiter. Even a little smarter.
Simmentals!
- Thread starter charlie01
- Start date
Help Support CattleToday:
haase
Well-known member
What about 4ct tophand?
Red Bull Breeder
Well-known member
I am a thinking they could run in double harness Haase!
haase
Well-known member
I think they all had Simmentals too.
Red Bull Breeder
Well-known member
All them really great cattle people run Simmentals haase.
Gators Rule
Well-known member
JustSimmentals....I've seen pics of your cattle, and also of Jeanne's cattle. You lose. In my opinion, you lose in the ring, out of the ring,and on here.....just because you have such a piss poor attitude that I would never buy cattle from you, nor would I ever give your "facts" any credence simply because of your approach, and of course, from your distorted interpretation of facts. If you can't compete with someone, I guess you just bash them. Really kind of sad. Now back to your regularly scheduled program.
FYI Red Bull Breeder, I love good Limi's....Red or Black!! I have 5, and grew up showing them. Love your new bull too, even though he could NEVER compete with JS's Simmentals because he cannot have better EPD's than HER Simi's....it just could never happen!
FYI Red Bull Breeder, I love good Limi's....Red or Black!! I have 5, and grew up showing them. Love your new bull too, even though he could NEVER compete with JS's Simmentals because he cannot have better EPD's than HER Simi's....it just could never happen!
Red Bull Breeder
Well-known member
Gator its just a matter what you like seening in your pasture. They ain't got to be the greatest they just got to work. Justa cracks me up!
TexasBred
Well-known member
haase":3i4dpsu7 said:
The news is out. Simmental semen has gone up 1000% in price due to demand. Semen from other breeds is being dumped.
ALACOWMAN
Well-known member
this man sounds like a robot, which leads me to believe all of his education comes from reading to much... and not enough time spent in the feild.... when it comes to cattle, id rather deal with a tophand anyday
Jeanne - Simme Valley
Well-known member
Everyone on here, except you JS, know that when I refer to "MY" Simmentals, I am NOT referring to the fact that I own the whole breed.
I am very proud of MY breed, and MY cattle, but I do not think in any way shape or form, that MY breed is the only good breed out there and that every cattleman should be using Simmental. Time for you to "get real".
You bash my operation, without having a clue how I run my business. And, yes, it is run as a business. My cows have to pay for themselves.
I just sold 4 c/c pairs & 2 fall bred heifers (six head - 3 cows never had a halter on them) for more money than you probably could sell 20 head for. And, "SOME" of my cattle get shown (and do a pretty fancy job of winning) but ALL MY COWS make a living out in the pasture - on grass & hay - no grain.
You managed to look up my bulls EPD's - and no, he doesn't have good growth numbers, but he is a trait leader in Calving Ease & Birth Weight, and his offspring have topped bull tests and feedlot tests (not just on gain, but most profitable steers). That's why EPD's are a TOOL. And, his daughters have been sold all over the country, with many bringing $5-6,000. Hmmm, how many of your cows/calves would it take to make one of those sales?
My show cattle (maybe 5 head a year) get more hay than grain while "on the showstring" and get turned out on pasture/hay immediately after show season (which is only about 4 months of their lives) and probably out-produce most cattle - calving within a 60 day calving season each & every year - on grass & hay. You want to talk NET PROFIT per cow unit????
I should not lower myself to your antics. My apology to everyone else.
I am very proud of MY breed, and MY cattle, but I do not think in any way shape or form, that MY breed is the only good breed out there and that every cattleman should be using Simmental. Time for you to "get real".
You bash my operation, without having a clue how I run my business. And, yes, it is run as a business. My cows have to pay for themselves.
I just sold 4 c/c pairs & 2 fall bred heifers (six head - 3 cows never had a halter on them) for more money than you probably could sell 20 head for. And, "SOME" of my cattle get shown (and do a pretty fancy job of winning) but ALL MY COWS make a living out in the pasture - on grass & hay - no grain.
You managed to look up my bulls EPD's - and no, he doesn't have good growth numbers, but he is a trait leader in Calving Ease & Birth Weight, and his offspring have topped bull tests and feedlot tests (not just on gain, but most profitable steers). That's why EPD's are a TOOL. And, his daughters have been sold all over the country, with many bringing $5-6,000. Hmmm, how many of your cows/calves would it take to make one of those sales?
My show cattle (maybe 5 head a year) get more hay than grain while "on the showstring" and get turned out on pasture/hay immediately after show season (which is only about 4 months of their lives) and probably out-produce most cattle - calving within a 60 day calving season each & every year - on grass & hay. You want to talk NET PROFIT per cow unit????
I should not lower myself to your antics. My apology to everyone else.
JHH
Well-known member
Red Bull Breeder said:
JustSimmental
Well-known member
- Joined
- Sep 13, 2010
- Messages
- 330
- Reaction score
- 0
Jeanne,
Everyone on here, except you JS, know that when I refer to "MY" Simmentals, I am NOT referring to the fact that I own the whole breed.
Good to hear.
I am very proud of MY breed, and MY cattle, but I do not think in any way shape or form, that MY breed is the only good breed out there and that every cattleman should be using Simmental.
This is true, Simmental won't work well for every breed, I never said they would.
Time for you to "get real".
You bash my operation, without having a clue how I run my business. And, yes, it is run as a business. My cows have to pay for themselves.
I didn't bash your operation; I said you were out of touch with the production cow unit. I also voiced my opinion on what you said about cattle from the south and west; and about your forage base being too good for 1300 lb cows. That was just silly.
I just sold 4 c/c pairs & 2 fall bred heifers (six head - 3 cows never had a halter on them) for more money than you probably could sell 20 head for. And, "SOME" of my cattle get shown (and do a pretty fancy job of winning) but ALL MY COWS make a living out in the pasture - on grass & hay - no grain.
Good for you. Like I said before, I haven't seen many show ponies that could make it in a production cow unit. In the Purebred business – performance is number 1.
You managed to look up my bulls EPD's - and no, he doesn't have good growth numbers, but he is a trait leader in Calving Ease & Birth Weight, and his offspring have topped bull tests and feedlot tests (not just on gain, but most profitable steers).
Two traits out of 14 isn't that wonderful and 0 traits related to the production of meat.
Yeah I did look up your bull – what you have to ask yourself is--- if that bull wasn't yours would you consider using him for your production unit??????
Most people would say no for the following reasons:
Vastly below average for growth at WW or YW
Vastly below average for all carcass traits: CW, IMF, REA, BF, YG.
API is pretty weak in today's numbers (118)
TI is awful (53)
What I would like to see in more Simmental breeders is a real interest in trying to promote and raise better than average breeding stock. Isn't this our real purpose??
This is one of the reasons I say "you are out of touch with the production cow unit". The show stuff has nothing to do with the production of meat.
90% of the bulls we raise (Simmental breeders) will go to production cow units or commercial cattle operations. The last thing we want to do is sell bulls that are below average for the breed--- as this doesn't help them in any way.
I believe that all those cows/bulls that are below the national average should be culled as they do not represent quality of breed. I just don't believe it is good for business to be dumping culls on commercial cattlemen. This behaviour will someday come back to bite us all in the butt.
So that others will know what average for PB Simmental is:
CE: 7.0; BW: 0.9; WW: 32; YW: 58; MCE: 3.0; MM: 3.8; MWW: 19.9; Stay: 18; CW -1.5; YG: 0.00; Marb: 0.15; BF: 0.02; REA: 0.10; SHR:-0.30; API: 106; TI: 63
I haven't ever sold below average cattle to a buyer. In fact, our cull point is any animal below average for any trait of economic importance including API and TI below 120/70. Not everyone does this and that is ok, but my interests are focused on providing the best quality bulls I possibly can to any breeder whether commercial or PB.
I am also against selling below average PB Simmental cattle in a sale. Many Simmental sales tend to be a dumping ground for inferior cattle and this is very sad to me. Taking advantage of a buyer at an ASA Sponsored sale is as low as you can get.
I recently pulled a few cows out of a Sale for this very reason. After looking over the offerings, from other breeders, we decided it would not be in our best interest to be part of a sale that had below average cattle in the line-up. The only thing we can do is distance ourselves from these types of people.
The people that managed the sale called us and asked us why we pulled our cattle from the sale and we told them this very thing. Selling culls to my neighbour's is just not my cup of tea.
As PB breeders it is also our job to inform and educate potential buyers about our breed of cattle and what is considered the norm and what we as an association consider below average.
At the very least if a breeder has below average cattle they should be sold after the above average cattle have been sold, so that buyers don't un-intentionally buy these inferior cattle thinking they were the norm. Some of our fellow breeders need to dig deep and see if they can find some integrity for the future well-being of Simmental cattle.
You want to talk NET PROFIT per cow unit????
Yeah I do, because you are out of touch with the production cow unit.
See – you are trying to compare Apples to Oranges – you cannot do that. If you are comparing Apples – you must use apples.
The everyday production unit isn't buying $6000 cows and heifers. PB breeders will and some Commercial do, as well, but it is not the norm.
With the understanding that 90% of our bulls are going to production units, we should be catering to them and their needs. 30 years of doing Bull tests this is what they said they want:
Good calving ease / birth weights
Good growth at weaning and yearling, which is above the average
Moderate frames 5.5 – 6.2
Moderate Milk Production in Simm that means 5
Good carcass merits YG, IMF, REA, CW, BF; above average as well
Like I said I just wish that more breeders of Simmental cattle would at least try to produce the best cattle they can and stop the madness in offering culls at sponsored sales.
It's hard to load those girls up and take them to the yard, but it is best in the long run --- and we are here for the long run. Just today, I sent a PB Red Simmental cow to the yard, API 127 TI 76, because she has a disposition problem—Wednesday night she will enter the hamburger production unit at the packing house—if they aren't right – you have to move them---period.
As far as production cow units –those larger frame cows you are talking about don't make as much money—all things considered = as a more moderately framed, moderately milking individual, due in most part to maintenance costs.
This is simple math; It is how many pounds of beef produced annually that pays the bills and not about how many 1600 lb hay burners you can run on your awesome forage base.
Let me give you a short example:
If you have 100 acres of pasture and your total production of forage is 700K lbs per growing season (6 months) how many 1600 lb cows can you run?
80 cows weighing 1600 lbs.
100 cows weighing 1300 lbs.
Over winter you will lose big time feeding those 1600 lb cows—no contest.
Say you have to feed hay for 150 days, that is 380 (1500 lb bales) at $50/roll
380 x 50 = $19,200.
80 calves wean at 600 lbs from those 1600 lb cows.
Using the Market report (there is not one for NY, so will use PA) $1.15/ lb
600 x 80 x $1.15 = $55.200 (minus hay costs, which = maintenance costs) 55,200 – 19,200 = $36,000.
These type of cattle regardless of breed are a loser –for a Production Unit.
100 calves wean at 550 lbs from those 1300 lb cows.
Using the Market report (using PA, again) $1.11/ lb
550 x 100 x $1.11= $61,050
Hay costs = 19,500
$61,050 – $19,500 = $41,500
80 x 600 = 48,000 lbs produced
100 x 550 = 55,000 lbs produced.
Now this all goes back to the Bulls; you as a Simmental breeder offer the Production cow unit.
Are the Bulls you are offering going to improve the pounds of live weight produced on an annual basis for the production cow unit?
Will they produce good carcasses as they move through the production chain?
Breeding below average bulls to average or below average cows produce below average calves.
One last note:
According to the 2005 National Beef Quality Audit (NBQA): a new benchmark for the U.S. beef industry identified the following 10 goals to help American beef remain the best in the world:
1. To encourage the production of cattle and carcasses and to meet industry targets.
2. Expedite communication among all segments of the beef supply chain.
3. Move toward source and age verification to build quality supply lines of cattle.
4. Minimize the production of excess fat.
5. Strive for uniform and consistent in all phases of cattle production.
6. Consider tenderness scores in genetic and management decisions.
7. Recognize that increased marbling is a value-determining trait.
8. Learn to better assess cattle based on genetic merits.
9. Selection of management practices that increase value.
10. Recognize the importance and mindset of quality lbs vs. quantity lbs.
Are you trying to do your part?
I am.
JS
Everyone on here, except you JS, know that when I refer to "MY" Simmentals, I am NOT referring to the fact that I own the whole breed.
Good to hear.
I am very proud of MY breed, and MY cattle, but I do not think in any way shape or form, that MY breed is the only good breed out there and that every cattleman should be using Simmental.
This is true, Simmental won't work well for every breed, I never said they would.
Time for you to "get real".
You bash my operation, without having a clue how I run my business. And, yes, it is run as a business. My cows have to pay for themselves.
I didn't bash your operation; I said you were out of touch with the production cow unit. I also voiced my opinion on what you said about cattle from the south and west; and about your forage base being too good for 1300 lb cows. That was just silly.
I just sold 4 c/c pairs & 2 fall bred heifers (six head - 3 cows never had a halter on them) for more money than you probably could sell 20 head for. And, "SOME" of my cattle get shown (and do a pretty fancy job of winning) but ALL MY COWS make a living out in the pasture - on grass & hay - no grain.
Good for you. Like I said before, I haven't seen many show ponies that could make it in a production cow unit. In the Purebred business – performance is number 1.
You managed to look up my bulls EPD's - and no, he doesn't have good growth numbers, but he is a trait leader in Calving Ease & Birth Weight, and his offspring have topped bull tests and feedlot tests (not just on gain, but most profitable steers).
Two traits out of 14 isn't that wonderful and 0 traits related to the production of meat.
Yeah I did look up your bull – what you have to ask yourself is--- if that bull wasn't yours would you consider using him for your production unit??????
Most people would say no for the following reasons:
Vastly below average for growth at WW or YW
Vastly below average for all carcass traits: CW, IMF, REA, BF, YG.
API is pretty weak in today's numbers (118)
TI is awful (53)
What I would like to see in more Simmental breeders is a real interest in trying to promote and raise better than average breeding stock. Isn't this our real purpose??
This is one of the reasons I say "you are out of touch with the production cow unit". The show stuff has nothing to do with the production of meat.
90% of the bulls we raise (Simmental breeders) will go to production cow units or commercial cattle operations. The last thing we want to do is sell bulls that are below average for the breed--- as this doesn't help them in any way.
I believe that all those cows/bulls that are below the national average should be culled as they do not represent quality of breed. I just don't believe it is good for business to be dumping culls on commercial cattlemen. This behaviour will someday come back to bite us all in the butt.
So that others will know what average for PB Simmental is:
CE: 7.0; BW: 0.9; WW: 32; YW: 58; MCE: 3.0; MM: 3.8; MWW: 19.9; Stay: 18; CW -1.5; YG: 0.00; Marb: 0.15; BF: 0.02; REA: 0.10; SHR:-0.30; API: 106; TI: 63
I haven't ever sold below average cattle to a buyer. In fact, our cull point is any animal below average for any trait of economic importance including API and TI below 120/70. Not everyone does this and that is ok, but my interests are focused on providing the best quality bulls I possibly can to any breeder whether commercial or PB.
I am also against selling below average PB Simmental cattle in a sale. Many Simmental sales tend to be a dumping ground for inferior cattle and this is very sad to me. Taking advantage of a buyer at an ASA Sponsored sale is as low as you can get.
I recently pulled a few cows out of a Sale for this very reason. After looking over the offerings, from other breeders, we decided it would not be in our best interest to be part of a sale that had below average cattle in the line-up. The only thing we can do is distance ourselves from these types of people.
The people that managed the sale called us and asked us why we pulled our cattle from the sale and we told them this very thing. Selling culls to my neighbour's is just not my cup of tea.
As PB breeders it is also our job to inform and educate potential buyers about our breed of cattle and what is considered the norm and what we as an association consider below average.
At the very least if a breeder has below average cattle they should be sold after the above average cattle have been sold, so that buyers don't un-intentionally buy these inferior cattle thinking they were the norm. Some of our fellow breeders need to dig deep and see if they can find some integrity for the future well-being of Simmental cattle.
You want to talk NET PROFIT per cow unit????
Yeah I do, because you are out of touch with the production cow unit.
See – you are trying to compare Apples to Oranges – you cannot do that. If you are comparing Apples – you must use apples.
The everyday production unit isn't buying $6000 cows and heifers. PB breeders will and some Commercial do, as well, but it is not the norm.
With the understanding that 90% of our bulls are going to production units, we should be catering to them and their needs. 30 years of doing Bull tests this is what they said they want:
Good calving ease / birth weights
Good growth at weaning and yearling, which is above the average
Moderate frames 5.5 – 6.2
Moderate Milk Production in Simm that means 5
Good carcass merits YG, IMF, REA, CW, BF; above average as well
Like I said I just wish that more breeders of Simmental cattle would at least try to produce the best cattle they can and stop the madness in offering culls at sponsored sales.
It's hard to load those girls up and take them to the yard, but it is best in the long run --- and we are here for the long run. Just today, I sent a PB Red Simmental cow to the yard, API 127 TI 76, because she has a disposition problem—Wednesday night she will enter the hamburger production unit at the packing house—if they aren't right – you have to move them---period.
As far as production cow units –those larger frame cows you are talking about don't make as much money—all things considered = as a more moderately framed, moderately milking individual, due in most part to maintenance costs.
This is simple math; It is how many pounds of beef produced annually that pays the bills and not about how many 1600 lb hay burners you can run on your awesome forage base.
Let me give you a short example:
If you have 100 acres of pasture and your total production of forage is 700K lbs per growing season (6 months) how many 1600 lb cows can you run?
80 cows weighing 1600 lbs.
100 cows weighing 1300 lbs.
Over winter you will lose big time feeding those 1600 lb cows—no contest.
Say you have to feed hay for 150 days, that is 380 (1500 lb bales) at $50/roll
380 x 50 = $19,200.
80 calves wean at 600 lbs from those 1600 lb cows.
Using the Market report (there is not one for NY, so will use PA) $1.15/ lb
600 x 80 x $1.15 = $55.200 (minus hay costs, which = maintenance costs) 55,200 – 19,200 = $36,000.
These type of cattle regardless of breed are a loser –for a Production Unit.
100 calves wean at 550 lbs from those 1300 lb cows.
Using the Market report (using PA, again) $1.11/ lb
550 x 100 x $1.11= $61,050
Hay costs = 19,500
$61,050 – $19,500 = $41,500
80 x 600 = 48,000 lbs produced
100 x 550 = 55,000 lbs produced.
Now this all goes back to the Bulls; you as a Simmental breeder offer the Production cow unit.
Are the Bulls you are offering going to improve the pounds of live weight produced on an annual basis for the production cow unit?
Will they produce good carcasses as they move through the production chain?
Breeding below average bulls to average or below average cows produce below average calves.
One last note:
According to the 2005 National Beef Quality Audit (NBQA): a new benchmark for the U.S. beef industry identified the following 10 goals to help American beef remain the best in the world:
1. To encourage the production of cattle and carcasses and to meet industry targets.
2. Expedite communication among all segments of the beef supply chain.
3. Move toward source and age verification to build quality supply lines of cattle.
4. Minimize the production of excess fat.
5. Strive for uniform and consistent in all phases of cattle production.
6. Consider tenderness scores in genetic and management decisions.
7. Recognize that increased marbling is a value-determining trait.
8. Learn to better assess cattle based on genetic merits.
9. Selection of management practices that increase value.
10. Recognize the importance and mindset of quality lbs vs. quantity lbs.
Are you trying to do your part?
I am.
JS
Jeanne - Simme Valley
Well-known member
Wow! do you like to type!
You can play with your made up figures all you want. I'm still talking bottom line net profit.
There is a whole lot more to the cattle business than EPD's. Man, you are really STUCK on them. HELLO -=== they are a TOOL. They are just 1 part of the process of BREEDING good quality cattle for a living.
I stand my ground. I raise GREAT quality, hard working momma cows that make a living for me & for my customers. You can stay in your make believe world of numbers. I will continue to raise what makes me $$$$.
And you are so out of touch yourself, if you can't believe that the cattle are biggest in the N and E, medium in the West & smallest in the South. Natural forage dictates that fact.
Are you talking about the Georgia State Breeders sale last week?
You can play with your made up figures all you want. I'm still talking bottom line net profit.
There is a whole lot more to the cattle business than EPD's. Man, you are really STUCK on them. HELLO -=== they are a TOOL. They are just 1 part of the process of BREEDING good quality cattle for a living.
I stand my ground. I raise GREAT quality, hard working momma cows that make a living for me & for my customers. You can stay in your make believe world of numbers. I will continue to raise what makes me $$$$.
And you are so out of touch yourself, if you can't believe that the cattle are biggest in the N and E, medium in the West & smallest in the South. Natural forage dictates that fact.
Are you talking about the Georgia State Breeders sale last week?
Just wondering where the line to the south is drawn not getting into any arguments but im south of the mason dixon line(mid tn) Have 32 momma cows excluding first calving heifers lightest cow is 1400 probably up to 1800 just sold 3 culls averaged 1542. They are PB angus some PB Sim and lots of crosses between the 2.I AI to both breeds, just like big cattle forage is good around here most everyone i know around here have pretty big cattle.
TexasBred
Well-known member
Jeanne - Simme Valley":1jqevoz3 said:
No but you have to remember you are dealing with THE EXPERT...I'm still wanting to see some of his perfect cattle that he raises in this perfect world.
Red Bull Breeder
Well-known member
Gators Rule says he is a she and has seen her cattle. But Gator didn't say anything about them being perfect.
Red Bull Breeder
Well-known member
Hey jeanie reckon you could get a hold of one of them Georgia state breeders sale books. Justa might have had some pictures of her cattle in it. We might get to see some of them that away.
