Traditional Simmentals

[Jessica06]

Just for the record, black simmentals are not bigger angus, just same size or smaller than black Angus.

This makes me question why anyone goes with todays sims if this is true..

Because they are BETTER animals, that's why. They have everything the commercial folks wanted. Who would wants to have a field full with huge fleck cows? That's not economically ideal for most commercial folks.

I would add that the advantage of a black sim over an angus is muscling and yield. If I were going for a black, non-bos indicus breed to make commercial calves, a sim or simangus would be my first choice. And I think, in general, the black versions of almost all breeds are better than the "real" thing. Economically valuable traits have been selected for and "set". Black herefords being an exception. In our part of the country, anyway, the only real value in using a Hereford is to crossbreed with Brangus, Angus, or Brahman cows to make F1s. With the first two, all the calves should be black anyway, and with the third, you definitely want all of the heifers to be tiger striped. So adding Angus only waters it down and takes away about the only thing that makes a Hereford valuable - HETEROSIS. I believe that's why they are so good at what people use them for..most are somewhat to very inbred, which gives maximum heterosis when crossed with another breed.

Disclaimer - I didn't read the thread, just jumped in!

 

[cowgirl8]

What i'm not understanding is how todays sim can even be called a sim. I dont doubt that you get a good calf out of what they've become, but i just cant call them a sim. They should be called something else. Old school sims had their advantages too. And Taurus, outside our 30 count old terminal herd of sim cows, our younger herds are sim/angus. Our sim/angus, although not as scientifically measured as some of you guys seem to stick by, but our young sim/angus who are 90% black who produce 100% black out of angus, are big milkers and are big and produce calves who are growthy and well muscled. We would not get that with todays sims.. If i had never seen a red and white sim of the 80s, i wouldnt even give the todays sim a second look.

 

[Taurus]

What i'm not understanding is how todays sim can even be called a sim. I dont doubt that you get a good calf out of what they've become, but i just cant call them a sim. They should be called something else. Old school sims had their advantages too. And Taurus, outside our 30 count old terminal herd of sim cows, our younger herds are sim/angus. Our sim/angus, although not as scientifically measured as some of you guys seem to stick by, but our young sim/angus who are 90% black who produce 100% black out of angus, are big milkers and are big and produce calves who are growthy and well muscled. We would not get that with todays sims.. If i had never seen a red and white sim of the 80s, i wouldnt even give the todays sim a second look.

The black simmentals of today will probably outperformed your herd easily. Sure flecks may have their advantages but there's a reason why nobody runs these flecks as commercial cattle. If I remembered correctly, some of your old bulls are not even full-blooded sim, yet you use them and called them sim. I believe that black simmental will improve your herd with better results than the current bulls you have.

 

[Fire Sweep Ranch]

Cowgirl8, to call your herd "sim/angus" would be like me calling my herd "Angus", which it is NOT. In most people's books (or eyes), a "sim/angus" is half blood Simmental or higher. I doubt any of your cows are half blood, let alone quarter because from what I read on here (that you write), you have not used a purebred Simmental bull in a very long time. All of your cows seem to go back to some old show heifers your kids had, but you have thrown a bunch of other breeds out there with your cows to make them more of a mix than what people call a "sim/anugs".
And no one really cares if you call the back Simmental of today a simm or not, the industry dictates that they ARE Simmental. The Simmental breed has done more in the last 10 years to improve the breed than any other breed in my opinion, and if you do not like it than stop using them (and stop complaining when you are not using them). But you can bet that the Simmental (black) breed is selling pretty well today, and I can guarantee you that I can not keep a breeding age bull in my pastures because there are many people who are realizing that putting a better quality bull on their cows will give them more gains on the scale, and that Simmentals do that VERY WELL in today's market. That's not to say it is the only breed doing it well, but the association itself is doing a fantastic job of getting our breed out there, and breeders are doing a fantastic job of producing high quality products that others want to capitalize on.
Today's Simmental is not a traditional Simmental, and for that I am thankful. I like my Simmentals, and would not want to have the issues the old Simmentals used to have. I would be using a different breed if that was the case.
Carry on now.... :tiphat:

 

[cowgirl8]

Whatever our mix, its working. I'm allowed my opinion, never said todays sims are bad, just not sims.

 

[Gators Rule]

What i'm not understanding is how todays sim can even be called a sim. I dont doubt that you get a good calf out of what they've become, but i just cant call them a sim. They should be called something else. Old school sims had their advantages too. And Taurus, outside our 30 count old terminal herd of sim cows, our younger herds are sim/angus. Our sim/angus, although not as scientifically measured as some of you guys seem to stick by, but our young sim/angus who are 90% black who produce 100% black out of angus, are big milkers and are big and produce calves who are growthy and well muscled. We would not get that with todays sims.. If i had never seen a red and white sim of the 80s, i wouldnt even give the todays sim a second look.

I'm glad it is not my job to change your mind. However, I am glad I'm raising purebred Sims (and some Sim/Angus and Limo commercial cattle), as I am more impressed with each calf crop. You seem to indicate your cattle are selling well at the market, and therefore you think you must be doing something right. I applaud you for that....but will go on to add ALL cattle are selling for more than they were selling for in the past....so are your calves selling better because ALL cattle are selling better, or because of your program? A good judge would be to ask if your cattle are ringing the bell, meaning are they sale toppers, or just riding the wave. With the exception of my registered SimAngus and commercial Limo's, you would have to go back a VERY long ways to find anything other than PB or FB Simmental in my cattle's papers.

As for your statement, "If i had never seen a red and white sim of the 80s, i wouldnt even give the todays sim a second look" that doesn't surprise me in the least, and actually cements in my mind what I thought all along.

 

[Gators Rule]

Whatever our mix, its working. I'm allowed my opinion, never said todays sims are bad, just not sims.

Then why do you continue to refer to your pasture of SimX cross cattle as Sim's?

 

[cowgirl8]

Whatever our mix, its working. I'm allowed my opinion, never said todays sims are bad, just not sims.

Then why do you continue to refer to your pasture of SimX cross cattle as Sim's?

Because we had sim cows and angus bulls.

 

[M5farm]

Whatever our mix, its working. I'm allowed my opinion, never said todays sims are bad, just not sims.

Then why do you continue to refer to your pasture of SimX cross cattle as Sim's?

Because we had sim cows and angus bulls.

HAD or HAVE?

 

[TexasBred]

Then why do you continue to refer to your pasture of SimX cross cattle as Sim's?
Because we had sim cows and angus bulls.

HAD or HAVE?[/quote]

Seems once upon a time, 20+ years ago someone raised a simmental on this farm. This one and her offspring have been bred to bulls of various breeds including cross breeds. Now everything is simmental. As for calves, she's sold none or she would have listed each calf along with a picture, name, weight and price. All the rest of us sold too early, too small and too cheap. :cowboy:

 

[Workinonit Farm]

Somewhere in that herd of hers, there's some Bos Indicus inflence, whether its from some long ago Simbrahs or what, but somewhere in there, there's some Bos Indicus.

 

[Taurus]

Somewhere in that herd of hers, there's some Bos Indicus inflence, whether its from some long ago Simbrahs or what, but somewhere in there, there's some Bos Indicus.

Cowgirl8 did mentioned brangus and one of her helper bulls is a Simbrah x Brangus cross. I think some of her current bulls are Simbra X but no purebred Sim bulls. I swore that I saw a cow that look like a beefmaster but could be a Simbrah cross cow.

I don't think that cowgirl8 has any purebred Simmentals left except maybe few old cows in their teens, the rest is just crossbreds being bred by either registered angus bulls or the mongrel bulls that is made up of 5 or 6 breeds. Cowgirl8's herd has lot of breeds in the woodpile more than black simmentals.

 

[cowgirl8]

With one herd mentality I guess y'all will never understand.

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

With one herd mentality I guess y'all will never understand.

Dang Hobby Farmers just don't get it!

 

[M5farm]

With one herd mentality I guess y'all will never understand.

Dang Hobby Farmers just don't get it!

I'm lower than a hobby farmer, I'm a hobby farmer wannabe...

Heck, I don't even own a cow in my name. :cry2:

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

With one herd mentality I guess y'all will never understand.

Dang Hobby Farmers just don't get it!

I'm lower than a hobby farmer, I'm a hobby farmer wannabe...

Heck, I don't even own a cow in my name. :cry2:

MEANIE!

 

[M5farm]

][/quote]

MEANIE![/quote]

I'm ticked off with the world today and looking for a fight.

 

[sim.-ang.king]

With one herd mentality I guess y'all will never understand.

Hobby Farmers would never understand how it is possible to have 4 different herds, each with 5 different bulls, consisting from Purebreds, to helper bulls of unknown breeding, and still able to produce Purebred Simmentals, Flecks, or Sim-Angs that are some how better then any other Sim.-Ang.
Yes you are correct I will never understand that, because I only have 2 different herds, 1 purebred Simmy Bull, and 1 crossbred bull. :dunce:

 

[cowgirl8]

With one herd mentality I guess y'all will never understand.

Hobby Farmers would never understand how it is possible to have 4 different herds, each with 5 different bulls, consisting from Purebreds, to helper bulls of unknown breeding, and still able to produce Purebred Simmentals, Flecks, or Sim-Angs that are some how better then any other Sim.-Ang.
Yes you are correct I will never understand that, because I only have 2 different herds, 1 purebred Simmy Bull, and 1 crossbred bull. :dunce:

And there you go.

 

[Taurus]

With one herd mentality I guess y'all will never understand.

Hobby Farmers would never understand how it is possible to have 4 different herds, each with 5 different bulls, consisting from Purebreds, to helper bulls of unknown breeding, and still able to produce Purebred Simmentals, Flecks, or Sim-Angs that are some how better then any other Sim.-Ang.
Yes you are correct I will never understand that, because I only have 2 different herds, 1 purebred Simmy Bull, and 1 crossbred bull. :dunce:

And there you go.

Bless your heart :tiphat: