Seventh horse dies at Churchill Downs
- Thread starter jltrent
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Travlr
Well-known member
Ya know... I've never figured out why race horses are so fragile compared to those that don't race. I've seen thoroughbreds on rough, hard, uneven ground and it seems like they do just fine, especially if they are raised on rough ground. It's almost like the horses that are babied due to their value are most likely to be injured.
On the other hand... there is insurance involved. That may skew any outcome.
Because they start riding them as long yearlings, and racing them as 2 year oldsl. No horse should run a maiden before 4 years old, and the derby should be for 5 r 6 years old. DFamned greedy owners fight this because they don't want to have to wait another 2 years to run one.
Caustic Burno
Well-known member
Insurance papers rubbing together have caused lots of calamities.
Son of Butch
Well-known member
Maybe man's selection of traits and use of thoroughbred epds [speed figures] in breeding selections.
The peak was pretty much achieved 50 years ago with Secretariat and horse racing has been meaningless entertainment
with the modern age by or even before 1950.
wbvs58
Well-known member
E=MVsquared has a lot to do with it. The energy of a moving body is the mass times the velocity squared. The velocity squared is the key factor, other horses never get up to the speed of racehorses and if they land on a leg the wrong way that energy can cause the bone to explode.
Ken
Ken
Son of Butch
Well-known member
Breeding for refined bone (speed) heavier boned sturdier thoroughbreds don't have injuries as frequently sturdier = longer distances vs speed, but speed could also be compounded with drugs used in horse racing allowing for more injuries.
Records are made to be broken, but no horse will ever break Secretariat's record in the Belmont of 2:24
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Ebenezer
Well-known member
Inbreeding?
Son of Butch
Well-known member
17 of the 18 horses in the race today have Secretariat in their pedigree.
He was a heavily used unproven young sire who never had much success in replicating the freak that he was.
p.s.
I hid a warning in there about heavy use of young unproven bull of the month club sires... can you find it?
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Ebenezer
Well-known member
The range of ages of AI bulls used this year is likely 20 to nearly 60 years old. No worry about me falling in to that rut of the young and unproven bull lemming race to the cliff's edge!17 of the 18 horses in the race today have Secretariat in their pedigree.
He was a heavily used unproven young sire who never had much success in replicating the freak that he was.
p.s.
I hid a warning in there about heavy use of young unproven bull of the month club sires... can you find it?
Is there any difference between that and cattle producers breeding heifers so young because they think they are losing money if she is not bred?
StrojanHerefords
Well-known member
Part of the issue with thoroughbred horses might be the amount of care they receive. Horses that would have died without modern veterinary care go to the racetrack where latent issues crop up. With stud fees of $250,000 for a live foal, every measure is taken to keep them alive. Over the years, this effect is multiplied as stallions and mares with weak constitutions are propagated in an effort to breed the fastest horse.
No difference, I agree. It is exactly the same mindset.
At the age these horses are getting trained they're pretty fragile and can be greatly injured. An athletic horse will try to do things their bodies really aren't prepared to do and are easily injured. Most of the "deaths" listed are usually injury related euthanasia
Ebenezer
Well-known member
How young is too young?
farmerjan
Well-known member
I don't know as I have a few that had "oops" babies at less than 20-22 months... but that is too young... like a 13-14 yr old girl having a baby.... I like 'em to calve around 27-30 months... most would say that is "old" and wasting time... but we don't cull many first calf heifers and we don't pull calves from our own homebred heifers and they mostly all drop a calf and take right good care of it and make milk and breed back. Nearly all our problems come from bought animals... not knowing the background, and taking a chance on them making some money....
The "oops" heifers that calve young get held back to grow some more before they get rebred... with a longer "dry period" so they can do a little "catch up" but most never get as big as the ones that don't get bred too young.
If you feed more, then breeding younger probably works... but we don't do alot of supplemental feeding so they just grow a little slower... and it works fine for us most of the time. I prefer to breed them after 17-18 months... and I really prefer to calve heifers in the spring... and we calve them the same time or AFTER the cows, when the weather is warmer....
BUT that is just what works for ME.
The "oops" heifers that calve young get held back to grow some more before they get rebred... with a longer "dry period" so they can do a little "catch up" but most never get as big as the ones that don't get bred too young.
If you feed more, then breeding younger probably works... but we don't do alot of supplemental feeding so they just grow a little slower... and it works fine for us most of the time. I prefer to breed them after 17-18 months... and I really prefer to calve heifers in the spring... and we calve them the same time or AFTER the cows, when the weather is warmer....
BUT that is just what works for ME.
Son of Butch
Well-known member
There are a wide variety of farming practices and types of herds which out of necessity are often location dependent.
To answer the question of ideal age at calving for your herd would be to track cow production by Lifetime pounds of
calves weaned. But most farmers would rather pull calves all night in severe weather than to be bothered with keeping
accurate records.
To answer the question of ideal age at calving for your herd would be to track cow production by Lifetime pounds of
calves weaned. But most farmers would rather pull calves all night in severe weather than to be bothered with keeping
accurate records.
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sunnyblueskies
Well-known member
They are raced too young, when their bone structure isn't strong enough yet for the amount of force on the bones and ligaments. Just look at the structure of the race horse today compared to secretariat and before, today they are highbred athletic skinny machines.
I'm wondering and maybe it's a question for you guys who follow the racing world, but is it a north American bred race horse problem? Or do the British and Continental European races face the same high mortality rate?
I'm wondering and maybe it's a question for you guys who follow the racing world, but is it a north American bred race horse problem? Or do the British and Continental European races face the same high mortality rate?
For what? A heifer should be at least 2 years old before breeding. Any kind of performance horse should not be started til it is 4, and should not be entered into competition before 5 yrs old. There is absolutely zero difference in the modern 21st century TB racing horses, ad those 50, 100, even 20 years ago. Times are virtually the same. Records have remained unbroken for as long, for some, and when they are broken, they are in fractions of a second. TB's were developed in England in the 16th and 17th centuries, and perfected i9n the 18th century. Where as, say human athletes, which have NOT been selectively bred for performance, are continually setting and breaking and re-setting performance records. There is no
epidemic" or "escalation" of racing-related TB deaths... you just hear about them more and sooner because of the social media age we live in. There is no escalation of using performance enchancing drugs in TB racing either...there is just better and more frequent testing for them. It is ludicrous to suggest that breeders are breeding for fragile, light weight bone structure. A colt or filly either one, no matter what they cost, is put down . Even if you could tray to keep one alive and healthy to breed, no one would breed to that colt or buy a foal out of that filly, because it broke down.
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crossbreed
Well-known member
You are correct sir that he could not sure his equal or close. Same with many good race horses. Similar to affirmed who won the triple crown yet never made it as a sire. Yet alidar who ran second in every triple crown race made many times over the better sire. All in all Warren was correct, to much pressure on young horses17 of the 18 horses in the race today have Secretariat in their pedigree.
He was a heavily used unproven young sire who never had much success in replicating the freak that he was.
p.s.
I hid a warning in there about heavy use of young unproven bull of the month club sires... can you find it?
