Seventh horse dies at Churchill Downs

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Warren Allison said:
For what? A heifer should be at least 2 years old before breeding. Any kind of performance horse should not be started til it is 4, and should not be entered into competition before 5 yrs old. There is absolutely zero difference in the modern 21st century TB racing horses, ad those 50, 100, even 20 years ago. Times are virtually the same. Records have remained unbroken for as long, for some, and when they are broken, they are in fractions of a second. TB's were developed in England in the 16th and 17th centuries, and perfected i9n the 18th century. Where as, say human athletes, which have NOT been selectively bred for performance, are continually setting and breaking and re-setting performance records. There is no
epidemic" or "escalation" of racing-related TB deaths... you just hear about them more and sooner because of the social media age we live in. There is no escalation of using performance enchancing drugs in TB racing either...there is just better and more frequent testing for them. It is ludicrous to suggest that breeders are breeding for fragile, light weight bone structure. A colt or filly either one, no matter what they cost, is put down . Even if you could tray to keep one alive and healthy to breed, no one would breed to that colt or buy a foal out of that filly, because it broke down.
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most heifers get bred to calve at 2 years old I thought.
 
Travlr said:
It's interesting that Seabiscuit was born in 1933 and retired from racing in 1940, his best years his later years. War Admiral was a year younger horse when they raced in 1938 so War admiral was four and SB was 5. Both were faster than their early years. So why are horses retired so young now? Or are older horses raced and it's just not as common and widely known?
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The best horses go into stud as shortly after their triple crown careers. The demand for stud services outweighs their value on the racetrack. I think that is a great detriment for horse racing as we don't have horses to follow year after year.
 
Travlr said:
It's interesting that Seabiscuit was born in 1933 and retired from racing in 1940, his best years his later years. War Admiral was a year younger horse when they raced in 1938 so War admiral was four and SB was 5. Both were faster than their early years. So why are horses retired so young now? Or are older horses raced and it's just not as common and widely known?
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There are 100+ tracks in the US and Canada, and they run any where from 6 mos to 9 mos a year, 6 and some 7, days a week. Usually 10 or more races a day. 99% of those races are for 4 yr olds and up. All of them are claiming races, designed to keep someone from running a Secretariat in every race every day, racking up millions in purses. Not hardly any of these are televised, unless it is on that cable TV network. Think of them as minor league baseball games, where as the Triple Crown races are like the World Series. If you go to a track and hang around in the stable area, you will see most of the horses arrive in 2-horse bumper pull trailers. People are taking their $2500-$5000 horses to these little races, just like they carry horses to the local horse shows. The KY Derby, Preakness, Belmont Stakes and Breeders' Cup are the most prestigious races with the largest purses, and that's why you see them on TV. But this week, out of the 100 tracks there will be 1000 races run. Those 6 figure purses are why some risk starting 2 yr olds racing, and risk losing the horse to injury.
 
Warren Allison said:
There are 100+ tracks in the US and Canada, and they run any where from 6 mos to 9 mos a year, 6 and some 7, days a week. Usually 10 or more races a day. 99% of those races are for 4 yr olds and up. All of them are claiming races, designed to keep someone from running a Secretariat in every race every day, racking up millions in purses. Not hardly any of these are televised, unless it is on that cable TV network. Think of them as minor league baseball games, where as the Triple Crown races are like the World Series. If you go to a track and hang around in the stable area, you will see most of the horses arrive in 2-horse bumper pull trailers. People are taking their $2500-$5000 horses to these little races, just like they carry horses to the local horse shows. The KY Derby, Preakness, Belmont Stakes and Breeders' Cup are the most prestigious races with the largest purses, and that's why you see them on TV. But this week, out of the 100 tracks there will be 1000 races run. Those 6 figure purses are why some risk starting 2 yr olds racing, and risk losing the horse to injury.
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Are older horses excluded from the more well known races? Aren't there any older horses that can run with the two year olds and beat them?
 
Travlr said:
Are older horses excluded from the more well known races? Aren't there any older horses that can run with the two year olds and beat them?
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They would always beat 2 yr olds. Most all races are open except 2 yr old races and 3 yr old races. Most any kind of race, the class limit is the max. Like in motocross, you can run your 125 cc bike in the 125 cc class, and run your 125 in the 250 or open. And you can rune your 250 in the 250 class and the open. You can always move up., but not down. The richestr race is the Breeders' Cup, 4 yr olds and up. The famous gelding John Henry won it the first time as an 8 yr old.
 
Didn't John Henry (gelding) run some of the biggies until he was 9 or so? The Derby, Preakness and Belmont are all age-restricted races, I believe. Breeder's Cup and some others have a less restrictive field (I think).
 
Brute 23 said:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the big money in the bredding, not the winning?

I know you have to win to sell but the faster you get some wins under your belt the faster you can sell that secret serum and get a return on your money.
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Oh, there is money in winning the big stakes races, and also through winning at the betting window. But yes, stud fees on Derby winners and Triple Crown winners can be 6 figuires. Thoroughbreds have to be bred live cover only. Any TB that is collected would have to be for breeding warmbloods, QHs. Paints, and Apps. The big money in breeding is in AQHA horses, especially NCHA horses. Percentage shares in lWGC cutting horse sires sell for 10's pof millions/ But AQHA will allow AI, embryo transfer, etc, so you can make millions in stud fees. And embryo sales.
 
More money is lost with race horses every year than is made. Thousands of big $ prospects bought and sold every year and most never produce a hill of beans. The Sport of Kings because only a king can throwaway money like water on racing, polo ect.
without giving it a 2nd thought.
 
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A lot of thoroughbreds have careers in other fairly athletic pursuits such as eventing and showjumping and they seem to stand up OK at the top level just as well as other breeds such as the warmbloods. I have known many horses that had injuries that finished their racing careers were sound in those other pursuits. It all gets back to the speed they travel in racing.

Ken
 
Warren Allison said:
There are 100+ tracks in the US and Canada, and they run any where from 6 mos to 9 mos a year, 6 and some 7, days a week. Usually 10 or more races a day. 99% of those races are for 4 yr olds and up. All of them are claiming races, designed to keep someone from running a Secretariat in every race every day, racking up millions in purses. Not hardly any of these are televised, unless it is on that cable TV network. Think of them as minor league baseball games, where as the Triple Crown races are like the World Series. If you go to a track and hang around in the stable area, you will see most of the horses arrive in 2-horse bumper pull trailers. People are taking their $2500-$5000 horses to these little races, just like they carry horses to the local horse shows. The KY Derby, Preakness, Belmont Stakes and Breeders' Cup are the most prestigious races with the largest purses, and that's why you see them on TV. But this week, out of the 100 tracks there will be 1000 races run. Those 6 figure purses are why some risk starting 2 yr olds racing, and risk losing the horse to injury.
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The Derby was the 12th race of the day at that track.
 
wbvs58 said:
A lot of thoroughbreds have careers in other fairly athletic pursuits such as eventing and showjumping and they seem to stand up OK at the top level just as well as other breeds such as the warmbloods. I have known many horses that had injuries that finished their racing careers were sound in those other pursuits. It all gets back to the speed they travel in racing.

Ken
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Oh, for sure. I iused to think English riding was for sissies, til I fated a girl that did 30-day eventing. Didn't care for the dressage day, and the jumping part was kinda cool, as it is a timed event. But the cross-country part?!!! DAMN! It is like motocross on horse back! But. these aren't 2 and 3 year olds doing this. more like 8, 10, and up.
 
Most of ya might not remember or know that they use to race Yearling QH..They finally learned and stopped that in 1983... Yes Babies with open knees. Who should be just playing in the fields with friends.
Why did they race them ? for the all mighty dollar!
But they still race 2yr olds.. And that is still not great..
Heck even 3yrolds can still have open knees.. Sadly they will never change NOT racing 2 yr olds..
Again the money... Racing is a very dirty game.. And if you run a clean horse ,you will not win.
If there are 10 horses in a race 9 are dirty in a way that can't be traced.
I can go on and on about this , we were in the racing biz. for a bit.
They were using elephant tranquilizer on races horses , they weren't testing for it ,and it worked different on a horse it fires the body ,The big issues was sometimes the horse would just stand in the starting gate with it's eyes spinning! Unpredictable .. This was in the 80's they might test for it now.
There was always something new being concocted..
When we ran it was purely on the horse and 60 cc of honey ..

Ya'll don't hear about all the other tracks , that have young stock breaking down..

OK rant over,,,
 
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I rode a "retired" thoroughbred off the track (don't know why they kicked him off but he was fairly sound) on a mountain trail ride some years ago and all he wanted was to go, go, go. I finally got a belly full of his energy as we departed the mouth of a holler where it emptied into a big open flat and I put the bootheels to the belly as hard and fast as I could and we just about teleported across that space. When I got him slowed, I swear that son of a gun was as happy as a pig in shite. I think he was unhappy in his role, but I'm glad I got to give him a little something the day I was invited out to ride him.
 
Forte the Kentucky Derby favorite who was scratched the day before the race with a bruised foot, has been disqualified as the winner of The Hopeful Stakes at Saratoga race course for a failed drug test. The Hopeful Stakes race was the first of Forte's 5 consecutive wins heading into the Derby. Trainer Todd Pletcher received 10 day suspension and $1000 fine. Forte is restricted from racing for 14 days ending the day of the Preakness. I don't know if Forte is entered in the Preakness, but my guess is yes.
 

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