Replacement Heifers

[KNERSIE]

You've got to remember that first and foremost you need an animal that "do" in its environment to have any hope of a profitable program, more so for seedstock, if seedstock don't make commercial sense then it really is of no use. You can decide for yourself how well these heifers are doing.

On the ugly cow great calf theory, the more you leave to be desired in the cow, the more bull power you need to produce that calf. Also don't forget that the calf needs to continue doing well until its finished, most all jersey cows will raise a great looking calf at weaning time, but how will those calves fare in the feedlot?

 

[Katpau]

You are all free to your opinion on these heifers, but some of them were worded more as insults. Oldtimer may have posted these photos, but he did not ask to have them critiqued, nor did he say anything to imply he thought their conformation perfect. He knows that the real proof of their worth will not come for years, and I doubt he cares too much about others opinions. The 406 heifer was not to Gizmom's taste, but she did not make her comment sound like an insult, while others seemed to take extra effort to word it as such. TexasBred, your initial comments were OK, but when you started getting defensive it got worse. I will say you never stooped as low as some. Gelbveih5 and Red Bull Breeder, your posts were clearly meant to be hurtful, and had no other purpose then to repeat a supposed flaw in a nastier manner. Cowpollinator, your comment made me lose the respect I had for you in the past. It too was completely unnecessary. 3Way, you tried to make it sound helpful, then you had to throw in a few nasty jabs, like the Corriente comment. A recent photo posted by you shows a young well fed bull standing in lush green grass next to a fence that belongs to a fancy expensive horse farm. You clearly raise cattle in a different environment and have different needs. It would not be fair to judge these heifers by the same standards.

 

[TexasBred]

Well, well....the only person we haven't heard from is Oldtimer and he's keeping them for replacements. Why do people post pictures anyway? Showing off?? Honestly wanting help or another opinion? Look but don't say a word about them?? Guess from now on if intention is not stated we should all just look and quietly move along. :nod: :nod:

 

[fenceman]

Well, well....the only person we haven't heard from is Oldtimer. Why do people post pictures anyway? Showing off?? Honestly wanting help or another opinion? Look but don't say a word about them?? Guess from now on if intention is not stated we should all just look and go on. :nod: :nod:

All the above for me. Got a young bull a page over, I'd like a education on him. Not necessarily about show ring stuff. But why not him instead of spending thousands on something else. Honestly trying to understand the other side.
I also show photos to show off. I don't see a thing wrong with that.
I carry some in my wallet as well.

 

[TexasBred]

Well, well....the only person we haven't heard from is Oldtimer. Why do people post pictures anyway? Showing off?? Honestly wanting help or another opinion? Look but don't say a word about them?? Guess from now on if intention is not stated we should all just look and go on. :nod: :nod:

All the above for me. Got a young bull a page over, I'd like a education on him. Not necessarily about show ring stuff. But why not him instead of spending thousands on something else. Honestly trying to understand the other side.
I also show photos to show off. I don't see a thing wrong with that.
I carry some in my wallet as well.

Absolutely if you got'em. Nothing wrong with that. ;-)

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

401 and 402 are decent heifers. 406 is a cull and I don't care what she's bred like she's still a cull. I think calling them average was a fair assessment and maybe even on the kind side when you have 406 in the bunch.

I don't see anything here that warrants your comments towards CP Katpau.

 

[Katpau]

401 and 402 are decent heifers. 406 is a cull and I don't care what she's bred like she's still a cull. I think calling them average was a fair assessment and maybe even on the kind side when you have 406 in the bunch.

This is the comment I am referring to. I can think of many ways to have said basically the same thing without it sounding so harsh. Although she isn't perfect, I like 406 and I would not be at all surprised if none of you would even recognize her by the time she turns 3. I like to look at photos and I don't spend time trying to second guess the motives of those who share them. I would have preferred if others had shared their own photos of replacements rather than turning this into a bashing of Oldtimers choices. Yearling photos are often the least flattering and with this turning so ugly I suppose few others are brave enough to share.

Why don't all of you who have criticized put up some photos of your own yearling replacements? I promise to not say anything about them, but it might give me an idea of your taste. I would like photos that are up close and give you a good view of each individual animal.

 

[cow pollinater]

401 and 402 are decent heifers. 406 is a cull and I don't care what she's bred like she's still a cull. I think calling them average was a fair assessment and maybe even on the kind side when you have 406 in the bunch.

I don't see anything here that warrants your comments towards CP Katpau.

I can see how it got lumped in . Sometimes peoples outlooks is that if it wasn't positive it was negative by default. I guess my glass was seen as half empty(I'm going to fix that right now :mrgreen: ).

 

[cow pollinater]

Sorry Katpau, we posted at about the same time. I don't take pictures of my cattle very often and I sold every calf this year so I can't accomodate even if I wanted to.
I have a question for you.
Why so defensive of one heifer? They're oldtimers replacements so they ALL must be something that he likes and therefore will probably all work for him and some of us have said that two are decent and the rest are average. Why support one ugly one when the ones that people don't mind looking at will work as well?

 

[fitz]

I figure at this point Old Timer couldn't care any less, so here are a few replacement heifers as yearlings.
Since pictures each has calved and bred back. So regardless of looks, that means they worked for me.

 

[skyhightree1]

Personally I just care if they are making me $$$ .. I am into commercial all I ask is to breed calf without my help raise a good calf.. Anything in between I can deal with unless it becomes a problem.

 

[Katpau]

Sorry Katpau, we posted at about the same time. I don't take pictures of my cattle very often and I sold every calf this year so I can't accomodate even if I wanted to.
I have a question for you.
Why so defensive of one heifer? They're oldtimers replacements so they ALL must be something that he likes and therefore will probably all work for him and some of us have said that two are decent and the rest are average. Why support one ugly one when the ones that people don't mind looking at will work as well?

I am not sure why this one bothered me. I read it at first expecting it to be a thread where photos of yearling heifers were shared, but instead it quickly deteriorated into criticism of these heifers and their breeder. I have seen others have their cattle photos attacked viciously in the past, but I kept my month shut. I guess it was when Gelbveih 5 piped in criticizing Oldtimers line-breeding choices that I just could not stop myself. The straw that broke the camels back I guess. It reminded me of high school where one kid insulted another and then all of the insecure kids joined in. Some people seem to believe they can elevate themselves if they tear down others. I guess my irritation has been building ever since the attacks on Cowgirl 8 when she first started posting. She made the mistake of expressing pride in a home raised bull, and she had to be put in her place.

You can attack me for this as well, but I don't find her ugly. I think she is pretty and very feminine. Now I have never seen a Brahman or a Brangus or any such cross that I did not find ugly as hell, but that is just my taste and many on here find them beautiful. That does not make either side wrong.

 

[TexasBred]

Very nice cattle Fitz...I'd be proud of them too. :nod:

 

[Katpau]

Thank you Fitz. That is what I hoped to see. How about some others?

 

[TexasBred]

You can attack me for this as well, but I don't find her ugly. I think she is pretty and very feminine. Now I have never seen a Brahman or a Brangus or any such cross that I did not find ugly as be nice, but that is just my taste and many on here find them beautiful. That does not make either side wrong.

That's all well and good. I don't know of too many Brangus hanging around Oregon anyway but they sure do well down here.

No go home and relax, pull your stinger in and enjoy the rest of the day. You should fell much better now.. The comments wouldn't change much if you posted a pic of yourself in a very revealing bikini. Some would find faults, some would love every inch of you and some would simply cull you and move on. Just don't take it personal. Everybody has different things they like and dislike about women and cattle.

 

[Gators Rule]

1st calf replacement. She's a limi/Simi and makes it a habit of laying in the water to cool off. Just had a nice calf about a month ago. She was too shy about everyone picking her apart, so she just layed down so folks couldn't see her. Not the prettiest of heads for sure, but I love her limi mama, and hope she will be out of the same mold.

 

[cow pollinater]

Sorry Katpau, we posted at about the same time. I don't take pictures of my cattle very often and I sold every calf this year so I can't accomodate even if I wanted to.
I have a question for you.
Why so defensive of one heifer? They're oldtimers replacements so they ALL must be something that he likes and therefore will probably all work for him and some of us have said that two are decent and the rest are average. Why support one ugly one when the ones that people don't mind looking at will work as well?

I am not sure why this one bothered me. I read it at first expecting it to be a thread where photos of yearling heifers were shared, but instead it quickly deteriorated into criticism of these heifers and their breeder. I have seen others have their cattle photos attacked viciously in the past, but I kept my month shut. I guess it was when Gelbveih 5 piped in criticizing Oldtimers line-breeding choices that I just could not stop myself. The straw that broke the camels back I guess. It reminded me of high school where one kid insulted another and then all of the insecure kids joined in. Some people seem to believe they can elevate themselves if they tear down others. I guess my irritation has been building ever since the attacks on Cowgirl 8 when she first started posting. She made the mistake of expressing pride in a home raised bull, and she had to be put in her place.

You can attack me for this as well, but I don't find her ugly. I think she is pretty and very feminine. Now I have never seen a Brahman or a Brangus or any such cross that I did not find ugly as be nice, but that is just my taste and many on here find them beautiful. That does not make either side wrong.

I understand and you're entitled to your opinion on them as well. I saw this as just oldtimer posting pictures of his own cattle as he's done a lot of in the past and not an extension of the "post your bull" type stuff(which I rarely reply to). Oltimer is a seedstock guy and seedstock gets beat up either before they hit the sale ring or in it... He needs a thick wallet if he's going to raise cattle that not very many people want to replicate. ;-)
As far as high school, I know how that works to. I live with someone that grew up being bullied(more than bullied). If what I say isn't over the top positive she tries to figure out why I'm being negative and neutral isn't good enough. Being critical of seedstock is a long way from personal attacks and I hope you can find a part of you that sees that difference for your own happiness. :tiphat:

 

[M-5]

Opinions are like azzholes everybody's got one

 

[Katpau]

You can attack me for this as well, but I don't find her ugly. I think she is pretty and very feminine. Now I have never seen a Brahman or a Brangus or any such cross that I did not find ugly as be nice, but that is just my taste and many on here find them beautiful. That does not make either side wrong.

That's all well and good. I don't know of too many Brangus hanging around Oregon anyway but they sure do well down here.

No go home and relax, pull your stinger in and enjoy the rest of the day. You should fell much better now.. The comments wouldn't change much if you posted a pic of yourself in a very revealing bikini. Some would find faults, some would love every inch of you and some would simply cull you and move on. Just don't take it personal. Everybody has different things they like and dislike about women and cattle.

Yep, not many Brahmans up here and we all do learn to like what works best for us. I bet I could learn to find them beautiful too if I lived in the right place.
As far as me in a bikini, it is a least 40 years too late for that. I am afraid a picture of an old women in a bikini wouldn't get positive comments from anyone. I will pull in my stinger for now, and yes I do feel a little better.

Lets see some more replacement pictures. Be brave. Come on out of the water.

 

[Dave]

If people would have read the comments that OT wrote you would notice that he wrote, "and when the old cows are brought in from summer pasture they go back with them- and are wintered with them thru the winter... Learn to rustle and survive right from the start... And I've found a heifer on the gain breeds up better then some of the fat ones wintered in the feedlots...' That is roughed through the winter in Northeast Montana. How many have spent time in that part of the world in the winter. I would be surprised if a heifer came through the winter up there all nice and fat. He also said that he would know 10 years from now how they worked out. He said he took a few picture so some of the heifers. I am certain he has a lot more heifers than what there are pictures of. He didn't say this was the top end. I have been raising 60 replacement heifers a year. No matter how you try there is always one that is ugly. And if you sell her another one becomes the ugly one. Lets be realistic looking at a few heifer in May is not the entire picture of his breeding program. That 406 heifer might turn out to be a great cow. On the other hand she might grow a set of wheels real soon. Time will tell.
I competed against OT in college rodeos way too many years ago. He has been running the ranch ever since so this is a long ways from his first set of replacement heifers. I imagine he knows a little bit about what kind of cattle work in his environment.