registered vs. commercial ?s

[tncattle]

I have read quite a bit and talked with a couple of people. But we (me and wife) are still in the infancy stages of learning. What are specific advantages and disadvantages of commercial vs. registered? I know this is a really general question but I'm not really sure what specific questions to ask. I have helped a man that has registered Black Angus a couple of times with his cattle but haven't got to talk with him about costs and the business side. He has about 150 head and this is his main and I'm pretty sure only source of income from the cattle. He does not have $ from other sources and has done this I think about 30 years. He lives modestly and this is his JOB and always has been. I know I need to talk with him specifically but wanted to also ask opinions on here as well. Me and the wife have about equal incomes and have been told by some I can't replace just mine with cattle and then others have said I can if I do it the right way. We are wanting specifics on the business side. Lastly we have found 60 acres of pasture that is completely fenced and has a decent corral, chute and loading chute already in place. The owner is wanting to sell to someone who will be good neighbors and doesn't care about making a ton of $. She is willing to sell for about 60% of what it's actually worth. This ended up being way too long of a post, SORRY :shock:

 

[LimiMan]

If your just starting out, go commercial. The registered side is alot more work. Theres so much you need to learn and getting into the registered side is expensive and time consuming. You have to market your heifers and bulls and find Registered sales around you that you can take them to or sell off your farm. Its so much easier just to pen all the calves up, wean them, and then haul all them to the auction on any given saturday. My grandparents and parents were in the Registered business for many years, so I had all the resources available to me, facilities,knowledge,equipment. So I decided to go registered, big mistake. I dont have the time to go out and weigh every calf when their born, or weigh them when I wean them.
In my opinion you need to either, 1.Have alot of money 2.Need a tax shelter 3. Make it your full time job.
My dad tried to talk me out of going registered but I didnt listen.

 

[BTRANCH]

We are fairly new to the game, as you know. I would buy the best registered bull I could afford and then commerical cows. In the Beefmaster program, you can "breed up" and take the offspring of a commerical cow and re-breed to a registered animal 2 generations and they will let you register that offspring. Commerical animals are generally less expensive, but from what I have seen, only about $50-100 per animal. We have felt that it was worth paying the extra $100 per animal to get the papers if the cow looked good. I would not pay extra just to get the papers if it were an average looking cow.

I would jump all over that 60 acres. Even if you had to keep working for the first 5 years while you built up your herd, it would not been the end of the world. You are still young enough to enjoy the place when you get to retire. Good luck to you.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

I am a PB breeder, but I would recommend starting out with commercial cows, and as the previous post said - buy a PB bull - a GREAT PB bull. As mentioned, some breeds allow "breeding up" - meaning registering 1/2 bloods & build up to Purebreds. If you are interested in doing this, you have to decide what breed you want - and what SELLS in your area. You have to LIKE what you are raising in order to do a good job. So, visit farms, go to fairs, talk to lots of people, including your local Extension ag people.

 

[Aero]

tncattle:

we have been through this before. you have been told the exact same stuff over and over yet you are set on being a registered "breeder". why do you ask questions that you know are going to be answered the same way and you arent going to listen to the answers?

start with commercial cows after you make a plan you can stick to.

 

[ilfarmer92]

Really depends on what YOU want to do.
What YOUR place looks like.

I like the reg. business. However, I do realize you HAVE to have a drive for it. My father had a fulltime job when he had his reg herd. Needless to say 5 yrs into it he bought a black bull and went straight commerical. If you are just wanting cows to have tax benefits, calves, etc. you should go commerical. The reg. business is ALOT of marketing, relationships, and keeping up with them times, changes, and there is a bit predicting involved.

 

[Victoria]

We have both commercial cattle and registered Red Angus cattle. My family has been in the commercial business for over 40 years. We got into the purebreds about 3 years ago. The advantages are that we are making more money off of our purebred bulls than we did from our commercial steers. We have yet to sell a heifer as we are growing the herd. The disadvantage is that it is a lot more work. You have to be really dedicated to the job - weighing at birth, weaning weights, AI'ing, going to the different sales, pictures for albums and websites, farm visits. They take more time and more effort which is great if that is what you want to do. For a lot of people there is more paperwork involved too, we've always kept detailed records so we haven't seen much differnce. The costs of finishing out a bull, registering, memberships, travelling, showing (if you want to get into it) are all there. You have to promote your cattle somehow or find another breeder that is willing to help you promote your animals. If you want to start you have to put a lot of money into getting great animals. If you are starting with mediocre purebreds you may as well use that money to go out and buy great commercial instead, you will be better off as mediocre purebreds will produce mostly steers and feeder heifers anyway. Which brings me to the next point, you have to know what a good cow is. You need that experience behind you to know what you want so you get what you are looking for. It's a lot of money to spend on each cow just to find out you made a mistake buying her.
Basically you can make more money out of the purebreds but only if you devote your life to it and have the money to put into it. You say you are in infancy stage. I'd want to run out and get into purebreds if I were you but I wouldn't do it. Pick your breed, research that very carefully. After you have your breed do as the posters before me have said go out and get a good bull in that breed. Buy some commercial cows do it as an experiment. Buy what you think is a good cow and see how she produces. Figure out how to improve a cow. Learn all of your cattle management on these animals. Meanwhile go to some shows of the breed you are interested in and find out what is winning. Research catalgoues and then go back to find out who the high sellers were. Get a feel for the breed. Attend events on that breed and ask questions from the guys who have done it for awhile. Then after you feel confident in a couple of years go out and get a great purebred cow of your breed - even if you can only afford one. If you can afford more then get more but don't go into the hole to do so. If you are getting small numbers talk to the breeder selling her to you, he'll probably let you market the bull calf with his. If it is a female and great then keep it and grow your herd.
Don't expect to get rich with either herd. ;-)

 

[tncattle]

tncattle:

we have been through this before. you have been told the exact same stuff over and over yet you are set on being a registered "breeder". why do you ask questions that you know are going to be answered the same way and you arent going to listen to the answers?

start with commercial cows after you make a plan you can stick to.

Thanks for your kind words and support. Please show me in any of my past posts where I said I was intent on being a registered breeder.

 

[bigbull338]

tncattle:

we have been through this before. you have been told the exact same stuff over and over yet you are set on being a registered "breeder". why do you ask questions that you know are going to be answered the same way and you arent going to listen to the answers?

start with commercial cows after you make a plan you can stick to.

Thanks for your kind words and support. Please show me in any of my past posts where I said I was intent on being a registered breeder.

i for 1 admire you wanting to start out in the reg business.an with 60acs i think id go the reg rout.but i would not overload myself.get the 60ac farm 1st.then decide what breed of cattle you want.but know this you an your wife will have to keep your town jobs to live an make the payments.id start out with 5 or 8 reg cows an a bull.the cost of the cattle will be about $16,000 for 9 head.sale your bulls an heifers to pay the cows off.only keeping the very top heifer to raise.better yet you can buy 1 or 2 reg cows a year to add to your herd.

 

[tncattle]

You easterners crack me up. 60 acres?

I know it's my problem but I bet land is much more expensive where I am than where you are. Not everyone has unlimited $ to throw around, but at least I did crack you up. FYI, Tennesseans don't refer to themselves as "Easterners".

 

[AngusLimoX]

Neither commercial or pb will provide you with anywhere near typical off farm income for at least 5-10 years unless you put huge money down up front. NOT BORROWED MONEY.( There are those that borrow a lot and make a lot, but they have the experience levels to minimize risk and the equity that banks require ).

And that is if you do everything pretty much right.

60 acres for cattle is an expensive hobby, doesn't matter where you are. Don't give up your day job! :lol:

 

[Caustic Burno]

I have read quite a bit and talked with a couple of people. But we (me and wife) are still in the infancy stages of learning. What are specific advantages and disadvantages of commercial vs. registered? I know this is a really general question but I'm not really sure what specific questions to ask. I have helped a man that has registered Black Angus a couple of times with his cattle but haven't got to talk with him about costs and the business side. He has about 150 head and this is his main and I'm pretty sure only source of income from the cattle. He does not have $ from other sources and has done this I think about 30 years. He lives modestly and this is his JOB and always has been. I know I need to talk with him specifically but wanted to also ask opinions on here as well. Me and the wife have about equal incomes and have been told by some I can't replace just mine with cattle and then others have said I can if I do it the right way. We are wanting specifics on the business side. Lastly we have found 60 acres of pasture that is completely fenced and has a decent corral, chute and loading chute already in place. The owner is wanting to sell to someone who will be good neighbors and doesn't care about making a ton of $. She is willing to sell for about 60% of what it's actually worth. This ended up being way too long of a post, SORRY :shock:

Registered your trying to play a money game that takes money to play. It takes years to establish a good reputation.
During those years you are hauling registered calves to the salebarn and getting less money than me for my crossbred calves. No pureblood line is going to put the weight on as a crossbred calf.
Go buy you some cheap red cows, put a Good Hereford, Angus or Char bull on them and make a little money if you do everything right.

 

[Cowdirt]

I have read quite a bit and talked with a couple of people. But we (me and wife) are still in the infancy stages of learning. What are specific advantages and disadvantages of commercial vs. registered? I know this is a really general question but I'm not really sure what specific questions to ask. I have helped a man that has registered Black Angus a couple of times with his cattle but haven't got to talk with him about costs and the business side. He has about 150 head and this is his main and I'm pretty sure only source of income from the cattle. He does not have $ from other sources and has done this I think about 30 years. He lives modestly and this is his JOB and always has been. I know I need to talk with him specifically but wanted to also ask opinions on here as well. Me and the wife have about equal incomes and have been told by some I can't replace just mine with cattle and then others have said I can if I do it the right way. We are wanting specifics on the business side. Lastly we have found 60 acres of pasture that is completely fenced and has a decent corral, chute and loading chute already in place. The owner is wanting to sell to someone who will be good neighbors and doesn't care about making a ton of $. She is willing to sell for about 60% of what it's actually worth. This ended up being way too long of a post, SORRY :shock:

Tncattle, with all due respect, I think you've gotten enough info on the cattle business from this board to get you started. You will only seriously begin to learn when you get some cows and have-at-it. Buy the land and give it a try. BTW, teaching may be more to your liking after this venture.

 

[Bez>]

tncattle:

we have been through this before. you have been told the exact same stuff over and over yet you are set on being a registered "breeder". why do you ask questions that you know are going to be answered the same way and you arent going to listen to the answers?

start with commercial cows after you make a plan you can stick to.

Thanks for your kind words and support. Please show me in any of my past posts where I said I was intent on being a registered breeder.

A quick search show nearly three full pages of you starting topics - almost all related to starting up in the biz in one manner or another.

Lots of info has come your way - some of it conflicting - simply because what works for some in their part of the country will not work for others in their part of the country.

I think Aero is simply stating that you are asking and researching to the point it is time to actually do something.

You can over analyze to death.

It was not an attack it was simply a factual statement that may have been misinterpreted.

You think about this too much you will think yourself out of the business.

There comes a time when you have to fish or cut bait.

Buy some land / rent some land - grab a few animals and just do it!

Have fun - it's hard work - and for sure, do NOT quit your day job - you will need the buckolas,

Bez>

 

[Brandonm2]

I really HATE to agree with North Texas Socks BUT 60 acres is way lite even in the Southeast to even be thinking about going fulltime. Buy the property(if the next ten years are like the last ten years it will triple in value), accept that this will be a part time enterprise, and I would go commercial. Buy your generic herd of black or black white face cows and put a good registered bull on them and MAYBE try to learn AI. IF you can handle fence construction/maintenance, pasture management, herd health mgmt, heifer development, estrus synchronization, A.I, etc and can prove to yourselves that you are cattlemen maybe in five years buy two or three first class donor cows and implant their registered embryos on your commercial cows and go registered that way. I think you need to learn more about registered cows (the breed situation where you are located, bloodlines, frame preferences in your market, EPDs, A.I. sires, the show circuit, marketing, etc) before going registered in a big way.

 

[tncattle]

I guess I'm not the type that just goes flying into something. I will try to aquire as much knowledge as I can get in my brain first. So if I repeat myself sometimes then I'm sorry but I'll probably do it again at some point. It just seems like one of those things in life that really doesn't matter. But if it really bothers some of y'all that much then I guess just don't read my posts. :roll:

 

[alftn]

60 ac. is not enought land to support yourself with a commerical herd...although a good reg. stock has the means to bring in far more money..I will say I reather have a good 60 acers in tennessee than 600 or 6 thousand in the parts of western Tx., ok, or ks....But you have to remenber everything is bigger and better in texas...

 

[Cowdirt]

I guess I'm not the type that just goes flying into something. I will try to aquire as much knowledge as I can get in my brain first. So if I repeat myself sometimes then I'm sorry but I'll probably do it again at some point. It just seems like one of those things in life that really doesn't matter. But if it really bothers some of y'all that much then I guess just don't read my posts. :roll:

I think we can all agree that you haven't gone flying into the cow business. Most folks on the board have sincerely tried to help you acquire knowledge about the cattle business. I guess bottom line is that some of us would like to see you make the "rubber hit the road" so to speak. That's when you'll really need some help and I'm sure we will still be here for you. JMHO.

 

[tncattle]

I guess I'm not the type that just goes flying into something. I will try to aquire as much knowledge as I can get in my brain first. So if I repeat myself sometimes then I'm sorry but I'll probably do it again at some point. It just seems like one of those things in life that really doesn't matter. But if it really bothers some of y'all that much then I guess just don't read my posts. :roll:

I think we can all agree that you haven't gone flying into the cow business. Most folks on the board have sincerely tried to help you acquire knowledge about the cattle business. I guess bottom line is that some of us would like to see you make the "rubber hit the road" so to speak. That's when you'll really need some help and I'm sure we will still be here for you. JMHO.

I understand but you must also realize that no one on here knows my full circumstances. But thanks for putting up with me.

 

[Brandonm2]

I don't think you are doing anything wrong. Talk about WHAT you are going to do, map it out, plan it out, brain storm, strategize it, ask questions, read, research, visit other farms, talk to breeders, go to fairs, subscribe to breed Magaizines, join your state cattlemen's association, ponder, and PRAY on it before you do anything. You are not going to lose money sitting on the sidelines. Once you spend your money and get IN THE GAME that is where people can and do get hurt, so you had better have a plan before you do anything.