Please help me decide!

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Howdy everybody! :cboy: I'm a young guy from Texas about to graduate from Tarleton State University with my degree in Agriculture Services and Development and Ag Ed to become a teacher in the great field of Agriculture. So here's the deal, I love cattle and have been raised with them and as I will soon be moving off my house on the family farm, I figure it's time to get my own herd started for real (I have a few Baldies and Black Herefords). What I really want is to run a small to medium sized operation with a registered purebred herd and a separate commercial herd but I'd like for all of my cattle to be the same breed (but I'd be open to some crosses in the commercial herd). I have a ton of experience with Registered Limousins and Herefords (polled and non), Commercial Brangus, Angus, Baldies, Black Herefords, and Herefords. Herefords are my favorites by far but there is a slight buzzing in my ear that they don't sale great in Texas and as an ag teacher I won't be able to put a lot of money into something that won't return a decent profit. If at all possible I'd like to stay away from Limousins as my girlfriend's dad (and probably my future father in law) runs a huge Limousin operation and I'd like to make it on my own steam not his. All that to say, I need the good people of this website to help me make a decision on what breed would benefit me the most in my position. Thank you in advance for your help and I'll sure try to reply to any further questions you may have, any genuinely helpful posts, and to let you know what my current thinking process is at various times, and of course my final decision. I'm excited to hear from you all!
 
As a beginner and hereford man myself I would tell you to raise what you wanna raise and don't let anyone tell you your wrong for your decision. Where I live blacks bring about 30 to 40 cents more than herefords but baldies bring as much or more. It actually works out better for me cause I can get good heifers alot cheaper than blacks and with the help of an Angus bull I can make black hided calves like the buyers want.
 
Hard to bet a Brangus cow in Texas.
If your target market is the salebarn get a Hereford bull.
Brangus heifers are always in demand.
At your point in life your money ahead running commercial forgetting registered for now.
Registered is a slow growth money game, you are trying to sell a commodity that I can drive down the road and get the same thing from a known producer.
It is about selling your name.
 
Caustic Burno":1607cz5n said:
Hard to bet a Brangus cow in Texas.
If your target market is the salebarn get a Hereford bull.
Brangus heifers are always in demand.
At your point in life your money ahead running commercial forgetting registered for now.
Registered is a slow growth money game, you are trying to sell a commodity that I can drive down the road and get the same thing from a known producer.
It is about selling your name.

:nod: Gotta ta love those Black Baldies!
 
Are you wanting to sell at the barn or to the feedlot, or direct market to the consumer?

That'd make a big impact on what you're trying to do.
 
Thank you to everybody so far for your helpful input. I had actually considered running Brangus cows with a Hereford bull because like you, I've noticed that they sale very well and Brangus would probably have to be my favorites after Herefords. I've also put some thought into it and decided that I probably can in fact make my money go further by taking the advice of starting out all commercial until I've got somewhat of a name at least locally. And regarding the question as to my target buyer, ideally I would be concentrating on selling bulls to other breeders, however as I have the curse of being realistic, I know that that takes some working up to until you can sale genetics that are desireable. But I'd like to have the capability to sale at sale barns and private buyers so my cattle can go where the money is. But eventually I'd like to primarily sale more directly to private buyers but that'll take time to work up to. You have all been unbelievably helpful so keep it coming!
 
Another important detail I just realized that I had neglected to mention is that I would like to be able to grow some animals that could be showed not only for my own kids someday but in case I encounter a kid at the school I teach at that would like to show them but doesn't necessarily have all available resources. And before I get a verbal backhand for being unrealistic, I realize that could potentially stretch my wallet a little but I'm more than willing as I believe that for kids interested in agriculture, projects like that can change their lives for the better so if be willing to make personal sacrifices to make it happen. Hopefully by now I've gotten all of my purposes in so y'all can really start shooting right at what I want! Thank you all so much!
 
I don't know much about brahman-influenced cattle, but IMO I think you should get some good registered hereford cows, and breed them all to a registered hereford bull (A.I. works great in small operations to keep calving windows small and broaden choices) and after the first few calves you should be able to tell which cows best represent the genetics that you would like to have in the bulls you sell (docility, fertility, WW, YW, etc.) and I would continue breeding those to a good hereford to improve their genetics and register those offspring. For the other cows, the ones that don't quite live up to your expectations, I would breed those to something black (maybe brangus for TX?) and then keep the good heifer calves out of that cross for growing your commercial side, while still having bull calves that will get a good price at the sale's barn. If you need income A.S.A.P. then you could even take your initial registered cows and breed them all to the same brangus bull for the first couple calves to figure out which cows raise the best calves before you go in the registered direction. Basically which side would you rather grow first?

A. 10 registered cows, A B C D E F G H I J
breed them all to registered bull
Cows A B C D all raise exceptional calves that best meet your goals (year one)
Cows A C E F all raise exceptional calves that best meet your goals (year two)
Cows A B C H all raise exceptional calves that best meet your goals (year three)
In year 4, you breed cows A B C to a really nice registered bull to help expand that herd, while cows D E F G H I J all get bred to a bull that will make nice crossbred steers for the sales barn, as well as nice F1 females that will really excel in your commercial herd.

B. 10 registered cows A B C D E F G H I J
breed them all to good bull that will make nice commercial F1 females and nice steers to "ring the bell" at the sales barn
Cows A B C D all raise exceptional calves that best meet your goals (year one)
Cows A C E F all raise exceptional calves that best meet your goals (year two)
Cows A B C H all raise exceptional calves that best meet your goals (year three)
In year 4, cows A B C get bred to a registered bull to help grow that herd, while cows D E F G H I J all continue to get bred by a more commercially-oriented bull

Personally, I would lean towards A first because it would help grow your registered herd more quickly, and it doesn't matter if a bull calf is registered, you can still cut him and sell him if he isn't a good one. This is more long-term oriented, and could make you more money down the road.
But I also lean towards B because it puts more money into your pocket faster, and establishes your commercial herd earlier. The key to B is that you must use the same bull on all the cows for all 3 years so that you are comparing "apples to apples."

I also have a registered herd and a commercial herd, I enjoy my commercial herd because it allows me to test out various crosses (out of 3 cows I have one carrying sim one carrying club calf and one carrying shorthorn), but I also enjoy my registered herd because that is where I get the best calves and I feel like every time I get the next generation I am making improvements not just in my own herd but also in the breed itself.

Edit: While feeding some calves another idea came to me. Let's say you go with B, you buy some really nice registered (for the sake of explanation, let's say hereford) cows and you breed them all to a black (let's just say brangus) bull for a few years to see which cow really stands out as the best one you've got. I would find some semen from the best hereford bull you can find/afford and flush your top cow to that bull and use your F1 females as recips. This would, ideally, give you 3 or 4 offspring that would truly get your registered herd off to a great start. Plus if you use the best hereford A.I. bull around, then it makes marketing the bull calves much easier!
 
shortybreeder
While all of the input I've gotten has been helpful, you really knocked it out of the park!! You told me exactly what I needed (and wanted) to hear, a way to utilize my two favorite breeds in a way that will grow my herd in very effective ways! I think I'm going to take Option A (with mostly Hereford and some Brangus in the commercial side) as it allows me to get to my overall goal more quickly. Thank you immensely for your help.
 
If you are serious about the girl, go with a breed, or commercial group, that will complement the Limmys your future father-in-law has. A lot of big breeders run two breeds, the second breed could be yours. You could capitalize on name recognition, his experience, maybe some financial arrangement, and keep breed harmony in the family.
 
Chris H":2rrm45nu said:
If you are serious about the girl, go with a breed, or commercial group, that will complement the Limmys your future father-in-law has. A lot of big breeders run two breeds, the second breed could be yours. You could capitalize on name recognition, his experience, maybe some financial arrangement, and keep breed harmony in the family.

I agree. Why take advice from people you don't know over a man that you know is successful in cattle. It might leave a little bit of a sour taste now but in the long run you will be glad that you took at least part of his advice. I suspect he would like to hear your plans and can offer lots of ideas to keep you from some of the train wrecks that he has had over the years. JMO
 
Caustic Burno":2bpwu41x said:
wacocowboy":2bpwu41x said:
if you like Herefords cross the with Brahma tiger stripe heifers will out sell anything

You are 100% correct but you will get hammered on the steers.

That's why I like the Brangus Hereford cross. The steers bring good money at the auction, and there's a good private sale market for the heifers.
 
Rafter S, I like the Brangus Hereford mix too and was thinking that might be an interesting way to go on the commercial side a little. And to everyone who has offered advice, thank you for taking the time to respond and I've decided to go with Herefords or at least a Hereford base. If I'm gonna pour my heart and soul into a lifelong project I should be working with my favorite breed. But through this I've gotten some very interesting options to try and would love to hear more.
 
Chris H":vwqmho2q said:
If you are serious about the girl, go with a breed, or commercial group, that will complement the Limmys your future father-in-law has. A lot of big breeders run two breeds, the second breed could be yours. You could capitalize on name recognition, his experience, maybe some financial arrangement, and keep breed harmony in the family.

If you were my son, this is pretty close to the advice I would give you.

Do something you can do that will complement your future father in law's cattle. Maybe he's looking for a commercial herd to raise embryos? Maybe he's looking for a heavy making commercial bulls as a terminal sire for the lower end on his limmy herd? Etc... ask the man. Tell him you're thoughts, and tell him while you're wanting to stand on your own two feet, you do want to have a good working and family relationship.
 
WalnutCrest":301s1afm said:
Chris H":301s1afm said:
If you are serious about the girl, go with a breed, or commercial group, that will complement the Limmys your future father-in-law has. A lot of big breeders run two breeds, the second breed could be yours. You could capitalize on name recognition, his experience, maybe some financial arrangement, and keep breed harmony in the family.

If you were my son, this is pretty close to the advice I would give you.

Do something you can do that will complement your future father in law's cattle. Maybe he's looking for a commercial herd to raise embryos? Maybe he's looking for a heavy making commercial bulls as a terminal sire for the lower end on his limmy herd? Etc... ask the man. Tell him you're thoughts, and tell him while you're wanting to stand on your own two feet, you do want to have a good working and family relationship.

Good advice unless you are not going to be number one son in law.
Better be able to stand on your own and row your own boat.
Seen a lot of these family deals blow up and then it becomes a real mess.
 
Caustic Burno":1itjkxf2 said:
WalnutCrest":1itjkxf2 said:
Chris H":1itjkxf2 said:
If you are serious about the girl, go with a breed, or commercial group, that will complement the Limmys your future father-in-law has. A lot of big breeders run two breeds, the second breed could be yours. You could capitalize on name recognition, his experience, maybe some financial arrangement, and keep breed harmony in the family.

If you were my son, this is pretty close to the advice I would give you.

Do something you can do that will complement your future father in law's cattle. Maybe he's looking for a commercial herd to raise embryos? Maybe he's looking for a heavy making commercial bulls as a terminal sire for the lower end on his limmy herd? Etc... ask the man. Tell him you're thoughts, and tell him while you're wanting to stand on your own two feet, you do want to have a good working and family relationship.

Good advice unless you are not going to be number one son in law.
Better be able to stand on your own and row your own boat.
Seen a lot of these family deals blow up and then it becomes a real mess.



:nod:Exactly. :tiphat:
 
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