Opinions please

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

I need to correct myself. I said "if he breeds to a red bull, he will get red - but, he has some black gene cattle, so they have a "chance" of being diluted from the black dams side if they are born black.

 

[Lucky_P]

Warren,
Fleckvieh cattle are a 'strain' of Simmental cattle developed in Germany/Austria... tended to be smaller framed and more heavily-muscled than many of the Swiss/French Simmentals (Montbeliard, Abondance, Pie Rouge) which predominated in the early importations into the USA.
Fleckvieh breeders have tended to hold more to the traditional red and white color combo, but just being a red and white Simmental doesn't make them a Fleckvieh.

I used several purebred Simmental (I think all of those I used were dilution gene carriers), and later a few Fleckvieh sires (which, I believe, were all 'diluter-free') back in the late 1980s.

Based on your description of this guy's management style... yeah, I think he's gonna be better off with R&W Simmental or Fleckvieh sires than Braunvieh.

 

[Warren Allison]

I need to correct myself. I said "if he breeds to a red bull, he will get red - but, he has some black gene cattle, so they have a "chance" of being diluted from the black dams side.

Well, the red angus and Brangus don't have one, or they would be black. We know it couldnt be form the Carloalis..these are cows form one of the most expensive Charolais herds there is...selling 6 figure bulls and 5 figure cows and embryos, that the owners didn't want to register for various reasons. Would it be from the Brahma in the CHarbray? If so, they should have been smoky colored, but these Charbray are as show white as the Chars.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Sorry - forgetting what thread. If all these cows you are looking to breed are red, none will be diluted "looking". They may inherit the diluter gene, you just won't SEE it on the reds.

 

[Warren Allison]

Sorry - forgetting what thread. If all these cows you are looking to breed are red, none will be diluted "looking". They may inherit the diluter gene, you just won't SEE it on the reds.

To me, those calves looked a tiny bit more orange than red, lighter than the red angus and red brangus sires,. But, there are no red cattle anywhere in the pasture. Were they standing beside red angus/brangus dams, they may have appeared darker...same shade as the sires, where as standing next to show white cows they may appear lighter.

Damn it, I was going to get Clay ( sthrncwboy) to post some pics after he got done helping with them Saturday, but that ain't gonna happen since he got banned. He said every time he tries to post or comment or even like a post, a banner flashes up and tells him that "this feature is not available to you. You are banned due to using drones to stir up trouble". Yeah....makes no sense to me either.

 

[Ebenezer]

I voted black bull just to give some chance for discussion. Maybe discuss some genetics and such!;)

 

[greybeard]

Not saying you won't make money, but "I" couldn't charge more to a customer for a phony benefit. JMHO

There have been lots of phony benefits in ag that made money. Most didn't help the producer one bit tho.

 

[MurraysMutts]

Here ya go....
They folks sold the cows off this year.

 

[Lee VanRoss]

Will someone please tell Justin not to wait up for a call from me?

 

[MurraysMutts]

Will someone please tell Justin not to wait up for a call from me?

What's the going price on a Wagyu bull?
Whatever ya can get I reckon huh?

U buy him, and I'll let him breed my heifers this June. If we market them calves just right, we will make a killing!

 

[Lee VanRoss]

What's the going price on a Wagyu bull?
Whatever ya can get I reckon huh?

U buy him, and I'll let him breed my heifers this June. If we market them calves just right, we will make a killing!

Now that sounds like a plan for somebody!

 

[Warren Allison]

I gave Braunvieh a vote, just so they wouldn't be left out... I really like what they bring to the table as a terminal cross, but still look at them as a maternal cross, as well.
I'm guessing these RAxChar cows are 'yellow' or white?
I'm not exactly sure what a Braunvieh over that combo would give you, with regard to color, but you can bet that there'd be a bunch of brindles in the offing, though they might be really dilute.
The Braunvieh 'wild color', when combined with 'red' often gives you a brindle (see photo).

While Fleckvieh are Simmentals, they are not necessarily 'equivalent'. I would anticipate heavier muscling and probably more 'leather' with a Fleckvieh sire than a typical Simmental, but epd profiles of a given sire may need to be considered as they meet your needs.
We had significant Fleckvieh influence in our herd from ~1989 going forward, and the last couple of years, were using a fullbood Fleckvieh AI sire over most of our better cows.

I been saying they are kind of orange. About the color of a Guernsey, maybe? All of them, the red Brangus x char and the red angus x Charbray look identical. I was thinking Braun might be good choice as well. Might make a little better replacement heifer. If I see him again and he asks my opinion, I might suggest trying all 3: Fleck, Simm and Braun, There will be 53 alltogether..30 red Br x char and 23 RA x charbray. He could do 16 or 17 of each. Dan has or can get sexed semen for all 3 of them. If they were mine, I think I would probably do that, just out of curiosity. Man, if long ago their associations had come up with certified Hereford or certified Santa Gertrudis, etc, beef programs, and now red hides brought a premium, one could sure enough come up with some hellacious crosses couldn't they?

 

[birdog]

Ultra Black brangus

 

[Warren Allison]

Ultra Black brangus

Oh yeah! If there could be only 1 breed of cattle in the world, then let it be Brangus. The last few years, we have bred our Corriente herd to Brangus and this past year, to Ultrablacks. It is a satisfying experience to see a pasture full of 700 lb cows with 500 lb black polled calves nursing on them. This buyer, though, is concerned about a black bull throwing smoky calves. He doesn't like the way they look. Says they look like a Charolais that has been rolling in wet ashes! LOL I see you are in west Texas? How far from El Paso?

 

[birdog]

400 miles from El Paso. Abilene area

Oh yeah! If there could be only 1 breed of cattle in the world, then let it be Brangus. The last few years, we have bred our Corriente herd to Brangus and this past year, to Ultrablacks. It is a satisfying experience to see a pasture full of 700 lb cows with 500 lb black polled calves nursing on them. This buyer, though, is concerned about a black bull throwing smoky calves. He doesn't like the way they look. Says they look like a Charolais that has been rolling in wet ashes! LOL I see you are in west Texas? How far from El Paso?

 

[50/50Farms]

Abilene is a... nice enough town. Abilene, Texas. I didn't care for Abilene, Kansas.

 

[Lee VanRoss]

You haven't lived until you have tried wet ash hairy meat between two slices of bunny cactus cooked hair singed hot on the manifold.
It has been said. "once you leave black you will never go back." Good Cowboys Say, "Hairy Gray Meat is the Best to Eat!"

 

[50/50Farms]

I certainly prefer for the hair to be off.

 

[Warren Allison]

400 miles from El Paso. Abilene area

Are you close to I-20 or I-10?

 

[50/50Farms]

20 passes through there.