Phenotype opinions wanted

[CKSGelbvieh]

Yes, picture is from spring of 2019 before Danny's accident. Franchise was 12 months old when pictured.

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

Must be a couple years old. Danny Bradshaw was in a serious tractor accident Fall 2019 and hasn't pictured anything since he is still doing rehab.

I wish him a complete recovery.

I like the bull, unusual top-line or not.

 

[Mr. Greenjeans]

Greenjeans> Unless you have access to outside resources it is up to you what you decide about the bull.
Accept comments and advice from these pages at your own risk. Except for those who have mailed you a check! LVR

Sage advice ... I enjoy reading unfiltered opinions but occasionally there will be light shed on a subject that I hadn't previously considered. Years back someone mentioned white color showing up on Pure Power offspring. Lo and Behold it showed up in my calves. Regards

 

[Mr. Greenjeans]

Here are three of his son's from the first calf crop

Outstanding examples of progeny. Thanks for sharing and it certainly enters the arena for considering his services.

 

[Mr. Greenjeans]

If the end result is terminal calves he would be ok. He certainly has more bone and mass than most purebred Gelbvieh.
If the end goal is breeding stock, that would be a hard no from me. I do not like the shape of his front shoulders and would not like to pass that to heifers. I don't want to pull calves.

You are correct in his bone and mass. We talk about curve benders in the field of EPD's but in this case, I first saw his mature prototype terminal sire image and was completely surprised to see his curve bending calving ease numbers: top 10% in CE, BW, and CEM. His mature shoulders originally had me concerned (I fully expected this to be listed as an issue of concern in this thread) but they seem to have manifest later in his development by the looks of his yearling photo. After using A.I. for 7 years, I have noticed that the calving ease bulls that maintain good growth are not necessarily low birth weight but actually shorter gestation length. All of the calving ease sires known for growth that I have used (KHR 47R, Pure Power, M/L Advantage, Govenor 3N) seem to have their calves arrive 7-10 days prior to the due date according to the Gelbvieh association's gestation table. All of my pasture bulls, while out of these same A.I. sire lineages, hit the due date within a day or two of the expected due dates. I wouldn't be surprised to see this fella's calves arrive a week or so early allowing the manifestation of growth characteristics to occur while "on the momma "and "not in the momma". The only other Gelbvieh sire that caught my eye quite like this one was KIT Urlacher:

 

[Mr. Greenjeans]

Aside from that wonky topline, his shoulder assembly is way too bold and straight for my taste, and the way his neck ties in is lacking any extension or smooth lines. That's a case where you would really want to see that bull on the move, because I'm not trusting a thing about that photo....

Little over fed, broken topline, and could use a more flex in his hip.
Good sized bone, plenty of meat, not high flanked, and ok sized head.

He certainly would look different in his working clothes. I agree with there being difficulty in assessment when using a static photo. Our indicators go off anytime we see alterations to a photo and this is no different. I think my judgment on the flex in the hip is still to be determined. I don't have the experience to notice that aspect from this photo. When it comes to professional photos, I have to remember good advice I was given as a single man: "A little powder and a little paint can make a girl something she ain't"

 

[Mr. Greenjeans]

Franchise. Lots of people have been using him with success and I've been scouting his babies to see what they look like. I recommend looking at some of the sale catalogues with yearlings out of him, lots of good prospects, I wouldn't say I am in love with him, he has some strengths, he definitely packs on pounds for being heifer approved. I'm going to be owly and say that if you're going to market an animal to be an AI sire, you should get a better picture than this because if you try and find another photo of him anywhere, good luck, and I haven't been able to find video of him walking either. Made me not want to use him. Now, I do like some of his progeny and I'm basing a lot of my like of this guy based on the offspring he has produced. I think you have to look at your cows and see if he's a good match. I know his numbers are good but I look at epds after I think he's going to produce something good. If it's a match then yay, but ... I would use him on feminine cows for sure, less fancy animals I think he might be too butchy. The other thing I'm not sure about is his upper shoulder rotation, I like a higher shoulder rotation and especially on well fed animals you usually can't tell until you see them walk. I would select a fancy cow with a nice head and a tight front and a long tail switch to mate with him and I think the mating would be quite good.

I unsuccessfully read your post 3 times in an effort to disagree with something.

 

[Brute 23]

Can a bull like that actually breed in a pasture or is he just a glorified lab rat?

 

[Buck Randall]

Can a bull like that actually breed in a pasture or is he just a glorified lab rat?

Lots of bulls that look like him are out in pastures breeding cows. He'd have a tough time in SE Texas, but I'm sure he works fine in Iowa.

 

[CKSGelbvieh]

Can a bull like that actually breed in a pasture or is he just a glorified lab rat?

Actually he held up pretty well on mostly fescue pasture. Bred 14 heifers as a yearling and 18 as a two year old.
He did have plenty of condition when I bought him, but he also had a negative RFI while posting a 4.43 ADG, a 102 REA ratio and a 117 IMF ratio. He has a unique combination of traits. He is certainly not the perfect bull as I do not believe that exists, but he is a different type of bull for a purebred Gelbvieh.

 

[Mr. Greenjeans]

As a whole, our experiment with Gelbvieh has been mostly positive with our hot and dry conditions. Our area has experienced 122F down to -4F while raising them and they performed relatively well in addition to their crosses with our Brangus. I'm sure this bull would reflect differently with the humidity down by the Gulf. Santa Cruz cattle were developed with your environment in mind.

 

[Brute 23]

Do yall have any pics of him in his work clothes in the pasture... not posed for the cover of GQ?

 

[CKSGelbvieh]

Do yall have any pics of him in his work clothes in the pasture... not posed for the cover of GQ?

We leave cattle on pasture until the first week of December. This is late December of his yearling year less than 30 says after being pulled off grass.

 

[CKSGelbvieh]

Do yall have any pics of him in his work clothes in the pasture... not posed for the cover of GQ?

Doesn't show him off much, but here was the early August grass he was on that year with the heifers. He is tame as a devil and would follow me anywhere through the pasture and his ladies would be right behind

 

[Cgirling1983]

He was pictured in the sale catalog of the sale he sold in if you were looking for another picture. The picture we are using to advertise him that was posted in this thread was taken on March in a dry lot in Iowa and the edited in the grassy background.

Thanks for that!