Play catch up or just sell and replace?

[Brute 23]

There is a tight window between calving after the cold and breeding before it gets too hot for the bulls. That is pretty much it right there.

 

[anewcomer]

May I go slightly off topic for a minute? For years, I have read posters on here talk about their cows that calve every 10-11 months. I constrained myself to reply that they might have 1 or 2 cows doing that, but that would be extremely rare. As RDFF stated, the majority of cows are 30-45 days infertile after calving. Add 21 days for a fertile heat, and she's 50-65 days to rebreeding. If she has 85 days to calve on a 365 day cycle, she must be bred in the next 20-35 days. A 365 day whole herd calving interval is the gold standard in beef cattle production ( Beef Cattle Improvement Association). The posters I am referencing were year round calvers. As others have done, I dismissed their comments as a failure to keep good records. Recently, I have been involved with a small herd that, due to management failures, was unable to keep their bull confined to enable a defined breeding season. These cattle are well managed, but not over the top. Starting with predominantly a group of bred heifers, this herd has a whole herd calving interval of well under 365 days, and getting shorter each year. Remember, the bull is running year round. The operator keeps very good records, so I began to scratch my head as the years went by. I had seen mentiond, years ago, by JN Wiltbank, of bull contact as a means of inducing a reduced post-partum interval. I read up on "bio-stimulation". This is some contact with a bull, without breeding, by the cow after calving, but before breeding. It appeared to be too difficult for me to make work in a rotational grazing plan. Gomer bulls seemed too expensive. Then I ran across the idea of vasecomized bulls. Apparently, a simple, cheap way to provide bull contact with cows during the post-partum interval, 85 days. Flash forward, I was involved with another herd that had bought in a large number of cows bred to calve before the start of their normal calving season. I thought this would be a perfect time to try the vasectomized bulls, to keep these new cows calving early. Unfortunately, it takes a 6-8 weeks healing period for the bulls. I was too late and dropped the idea. You could purchase one or more stockyard killer bulls, have them checked for all venerial diseases, run them with cows from start of calving to bull turn out ( or just leave them in) and sell them and probably recoup the vet costs off the weight gain. This concept is not well documented in the science, but I am convinced, through my familiarity with the small herd, that something is going on. I would appreciate your thoughts.

 

[Brute 23]

There is quite a bit of info on pulling a calf for 24hrs, or even longer, to help cows come in to heat.

It might work out where you can pull the calves and work them at the same time. Your bull should already be in with them if you are trying to walk them back.

We have done this on multiple occasions to help. It's hard to pinpoint an exact day but you could clearly see quite a few cows got bred right in that window. We put the cows up in traps near the pens so there is judy a fence between them. It makes it a little easier for the bulls to check and service the cows in a smaller area, also.

 

[anewcomer]

Brute23, thanks for your comment. 48 calf removal is another of Wiltbank's suggestions. However, studies say the calves should be 60 days old before employing this technique. Therefore, you would be pretty far into the calving season before you had enough calves 60 days and older to make it worth while. This is the same principle as "bio-stimulation". There are other triggers to the start of heat cycles than nutrition.

 

[anewcomer]

In this particular case, I have a large number of cows that will have calved prior to the start of calving for the main herd. Therefore I could have put these vasectomized bulls in at the start of the regular calving season through to bull turn out date and have those early calvers being "bio-stimulated" for 85 days and ready to breed early in my regular breeding season. That would have made this a special opportunity to receive any possible benefits.

 

[BC]

There have been several good suggestions. First a good mineral program and increased plane of nutrition is paramount. Brute's suggestion on false weaning for 24 to 48 hours can trigger a cow to come into heat. There is some data to show that it did not statistically affect weaning weight. You might want to consider trying one a day nursing beginning about 30 days post calving. That has worked on getting first calf heifers rebred.

 

[RDFF]

All are good suggestions, IMO. False weaning would be helpful. Putting bulls in early will help in several ways, some hormonal, some just catching cows on that first heat and breeding them, whether they settle or not... some will catch, some won't, but on that second heat, surely you'll catch a high percentage of them. However, if you're after a very short calving window, you'll probably want to wait until at least the biggest group of earlier calvers are about 45 days past calving... thereby breeding THEM on their second heat cycle post partum, and the late calvers on their first, and if they don't catch on that, then on their second cycle. That would bring them closer together.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Backtrack a little on my earlier post. I do not sync my herd. When I referred to "tools" - I was referring to the paint and scratch tags as a tool to help ME find them in heat.
I use Lute as a tool also. I do not use it to sync my cattle. I observe and breed AI. As mentioned, if I see one messing around, but it is not a strong heat, I will Lute her 7-10 days later to bring her back in - this way I have a chance to catch her a 2nd time for AI.
I do not like any sync programs using CIDRs. To me, a CIDR is a great tool to force a cow into heat - BUT - that is not necessarily a GOOD heat. It forces her body to build a CL and ovulate an egg - whether the egg is good or not.
If I use a CIDR, I never breed her on that heat.
Lutalyse only works on cows that are in condition to be bred. She already has a good 10mm cl. It will be like giving her a shot of water, if she does not have a CL ready to sluff. It only works on cows that are in the right cycle. That is why - if you were wanting to SYNC - I suggested the cheapest and best protocol was to breed AI for 5 days, then give the ONE shot to anything that had not cycled/been bred. ALL cows should respond to the ONE shot IF they were ALL CYCLING naturally.
I referred to using a shot 7-10 days after seeing one messing around but not showing a good heat. I was not referring to the sync program. I may have been confusing with my words.
Back to the OP - his goal was to move his calving season up. He should not have any problem with the timing he set as goals - especially if he turns out a bull on his timed goal for calving season.

 

[Brute 23]

I read another deal where they put cows on green floors vs brown floors. The cows on the green floors had a much higher percentage cycle with in a certain time period.

So rotate into a pretty green pasture when you drop bulls out.

 

[Dusty Britches]

I tried the "365 day calving" and it sucks! Instead of whole herd record keeping you have to maintain individual records so you know when you have poor producers. I used to have cows that would calve every 15-18 months which is completely unacceptable. Vaccinations were a mess and it seemed every time I turned around I had to run them through the chutes or run a handful of weanlings to the sale barn.

 

[Dusty Britches]

Turns out I was all worried about nothing. They all calved before April 3. I'm sure breeding season will go well for them.