Pharo cattle company

[Ky hills]

Produce a saleable product or plan on eating it.I never had much luck telling a customer what to buy.

That is unfortunately the way it is, if you have a direct farm to table market and it's a quality product then you can get by with raising what you want. Other than that if you sell on the existing market it has to be as close of a compromise tween what the market wants and what works for you the producer.
The current marketing system is not set up for the cow calf producers to have much say in the matter.

 

[mwj]

As I said ,even in a niche market you have to supply the customers wants. No body will loose much sleep if it is someone else is going broke.

 

[rocfarm]

Produce a saleable product or plan on eating it.I never had much luck telling a customer what to buy.

That's why I plan to sell to the feed yards. They and the packer know how to turn it into a product the customer wants to buy.

 

[rocfarm]

That is unfortunately the way it is, if you have a direct farm to table market and it's a quality product then you can get by with raising what you want. Other than that if you sell on the existing market it has to be as close of a compromise tween what the market wants and what works for you the producer.
The current marketing system is not set up for the cow calf producers to have much say in the matter.

Most all commodity markets work that way, I think.

And to go the private risk route there is more risk than just going with the market. Maybe more reward, too, but not yet really in most parts of Texas.

 

[Dave]

That's why I plan to sell to the feed yards. They and the packer know how to turn it into a product the customer wants to buy.

If you plan to sell directly to the feed yards you will need to have more cattle. A lot more. Pretty difficult to get them to come look at anything less than a semi load. For a hand full you had better be their neighbor or good friend.

 

[rocfarm]

So what do you want us to do all join hands and sing kombia?
Ask Venezuela and every other socialist/communist country how that is going or has gone. Theory and applied real world very rarely match .
So I am expected to take a loss so some multinational corporations can get all the profits? Don't think so.
Ranching is way to much work for me to do it so I can loose money and the way of life I enjoy to not expect to turn a profit.

Can understand how you feel. It's been tough for most of the US workers these past 30 years, especially the American rancher. I'm the last one in my family to own land. And it's hurt to watch how the pandemic has caused so many kids to not even finish high school and such. That's going to really hurt our future generation's ability to fend off even further modernizations. And I'm not convinced that inflating land prices is going to lead to sustainable growth either. Seems like we're just borrowing future profits.

I think lots of the chaos of the past ten years is because year after year so many Americans have watched for a few generations as ways of life slowly became unsustainable, largely because of those corporations you mentioned and also because the US government is so easily induced to work for those who are elite in terms of education and money, as well as foreign interests.

I hope the rebalancing goes well, but even today, that seems highly unlikely.

Did not mean to imply that you aren't facing a pretty tough war zone when it comes to the cattle business.

Also surprised that I also need to think understanding these aspects of our world also come into play when doing something that would seemingly be unrelated, like raising cattle. Complicated world. I'm telling my kids that school is very important!

But recently the US has seemed to work a bit for the cattlemen. Some of largest importers of US beef are now Japan, Korea, and Taiwan, I think. And it seems that Biden kind of strangled a few factories out of some chip companies this year.

Hopefully they'll keep at it. Lots of people SHOULD be upset on the economic front, IMO. Not because we are not rich, but because there is not a more logical, representative playing field.

 

[rocfarm]

If you plan to sell directly to the feed yards you will need to have more cattle. A lot more. Pretty difficult to get them to come look at anything less than a semi load. For a hand full you had better be their neighbor or good friend.

Apologies. Newbie mistake. I will sell to the guy at the auction who then sells to the feedyards.

Might try to sell on Craigslist first if they look nice. Could even offer to deliver and charge $3 a mile and such.

 

[Rmc]

When mainstream cattle are at a certain value and Highlands, Galloways and Dexters are 20 to 30% their value it makes anyone who is not in a niche market/hobby farm position avoid them like the plague.

What is your experience with them Oh Wise One?

My experience with a small number of cows that are 1/4 to 3/8 highland when bred to a black bull , the calves sell in the same groups as there herd mates for the same prices.
Including the last four years when our calves have been sold to the same buyer direct.

 

[bird dog]

Craigslist buyers will not often pay what the sale barn buyers will if your calves are true #1's. Craigslist though is a good place to sell your #2's or calves the buyers can't buy like shorthorns, highlands or belties.

 

[gcreekrch]

My experience with a small number of cows that are 1/4 to 3/8 highland when bred to a black bull , the calves sell in the same groups as there herd mates for the same prices.
Including the last four years when our calves have been sold to the same buyer direct.

You have seen my photos etc. Where and how many cattle are we discussing?
Are you planning to purchase a couple half Highland bulls to make more cows with?

 

[alacowman1]

Craigslist buyers will not often pay what the sale barn buyers will if your calves are true #1's. Craigslist though is a good place to sell your #2's or calves the buyers can't buy like shorthorns, highlands or belties.

and be sure too ask twice what they're worth..

 

[Travlr]

and be sure too ask twice what they're worth..

Who knows...

Maybe there is an entirely different reality/market where the cattle we laugh about and wouldn't touch with a ten foot pole are popular and worth much more than CAB "premium" animals... and they are laughing at us.

 

[elkwc]

It really comes down to due diligence in buying/raising/breeding your breeding stock. Selecting for docility is just like selecting for any other trait. Docility is one of the most heritable traits.

Telling my stories here on this forum I've mentioned I worked with Limousine and really liked them, and I've had lots of comments about how Limousine have a reputation for being less docile... and my experience was just the opposite. It came down to me buying docile animals and avoiding those that weren't. I've had more nutty Angus/Angus crosses than any other breed.

Well you and a few others have had the opposite experience concerning docility and the exotic breeds. I have talked to feedlot managers, livestock sale managers, fellow breeders, processing crews for the large lots. Have been told by all overall they see a higher percentage of temperament issues with the exotic reeds. One reason some don't want more than 25% exotic influence. I always try to analyze docility. It is usually the first thing I look at. That is one reason I like too see bulls run through the ring. Many sales sell by video and don't allow a person too separate them in order to get an idea how they will handle by themselves. When we bought the Gelbveigh he was in a wheat field and was ok. I couldn't scratch him but he handled ok. He showed no signs of docility issues. He was never an issue. Other breeders have experienced the same.But around a 1/3 of his progeny were extremely flighty and hard to handle. I culled some otherwise top replacements. From my previous experience with exotics I should of never took the risk. I was told there had been major improvements made in Gelbveighs. In our case that wasn't true. We had no culls for docility sired by the other sires. I don't know of a single Gelbveigh bull being used in this area currently.

 

[Rmc]

and be sure too ask twice what they're worth..

And who determines "worth".
Some here have posted about selling "junk wagyu cross weaned calves at the sale barn for .30-60 cents a pound.
While others on here have wondered if a semi load of similar calves they help ship if the hauler had enough insurance to cover the cost of the load if it was lost . As it was the most expensive semi load of cattle he had been involved with.

 

[Travlr]

Well you and a few others have had the opposite experience concerning docility and the exotic breeds. I have talked to feedlot managers, livestock sale managers, fellow breeders, processing crews for the large lots. Have been told by all overall they see a higher percentage of temperament issues with the exotic reeds. One reason some don't want more than 25% exotic influence. I always try to analyze docility. It is usually the first thing I look at. That is one reason I like too see bulls run through the ring. Many sales sell by video and don't allow a person too separate them in order to get an idea how they will handle by themselves. When we bought the Gelbveigh he was in a wheat field and was ok. I couldn't scratch him but he handled ok. He showed no signs of docility issues. He was never an issue. Other breeders have experienced the same.But around a 1/3 of his progeny were extremely flighty and hard to handle. I culled some otherwise top replacements. From my previous experience with exotics I should of never took the risk. I was told there had been major improvements made in Gelbveighs. In our case that wasn't true. We had no culls for docility sired by the other sires. I don't know of a single Gelbveigh bull being used in this area currently.

LOL... I went to a PB Angus bull sale in Faith, SD and the bulls were some of the best I've seen of the breed. The auction house began the sale with an announcement of a long time local customer's death, and they said they would be donating a bull to the family. The sale was going fine and the bulls bringing high prices... and they opened the gate to the sale ring after one of the bulls sold and he was exiting... and the next bull literally jumped through the entry gate, hit the ground once, and bounced out the exit with the previous sold bull. The auctioneer laughed and said that was the bull being donated...

I don't know if they did the family any favors choosing to donate that bull. I felt it was kind of a raw deal.

The thing is, all the animals were out in the pens before the sale and we were all invited into those pens to inspect the bulls before the sale. There were a few that nosed me, most ignored me, and there were a few that liked their personal space. None seemed especially flighty. But damn... that bull wasn't in the ring for more than a second.

I don't judge breeds by other's experience anymore than I judge them by the color of their hair. My experience with continentals is my own, and anyone having different experiences may have not done their due diligence. As many cattle as I've had... I doubt my experience was luck.

 

[rocfarm]

Who knows...

Maybe there is an entirely different reality/market where the cattle we laugh about and wouldn't touch with a ten foot pole are popular and worth much more than CAB "premium" animals... and they are laughing at us.

Well, there is. It's called YouTube. Lots of people make money off of filming their cattle. There's even hoof trimmers that make money showing the gross stuff that comes out of cattle's hooves combined with animal care messages. They have a working model. Even think the hoof guy was able to or at least has the money to buy back old family land that he'd have never gotten back based on a hoof trimmer's income.

More power to him, I'd say.

 

[elkwc]

LOL... I went to a PB Angus bull sale in Faith, SD and the bulls were some of the best I've seen of the breed. The auction house began the sale with an announcement of a long time local customer's death, and they said they would be donating a bull to the family. The sale was going fine and the bulls bringing high prices... and they opened the gate to the sale ring after one of the bulls sold and he was exiting... and the next bull literally jumped through the entry gate, hit the ground once, and bounced out the exit with the previous sold bull. The auctioneer laughed and said that was the bull being donated...

I don't know if they did the family any favors choosing to donate that bull. I felt it was kind of a raw deal.

The thing is, all the animals were out in the pens before the sale and we were all invited into those pens to inspect the bulls before the sale. There were a few that nosed me, most ignored me, and there were a few that liked their personal space. None seemed especially flighty. But damn... that bull wasn't in the ring for more than a second.

I don't judge breeds by other's experience anymore than I judge them by the color of their hair. My experience with continentals is my own, and anyone having different experiences may have not done their due diligence. As many cattle as I've had... I doubt my experience was luck.

How many hundreds of cows do you calve every year? Again you are entitled to your opinion but that doesn't mean it is right in every instance. I can assure you there is a reason cattle with an exotic influence are docked around here. Most of the buyers but and handle thousands of head every year.
I even made a posts online including this forum as I don't know Gelbveigh bloodlines. Not one negative until we started seeing docility issues in his calves. Then a couple of Gelbveigh breeders came forward and stated this was normal for his bloodlines and had been an issue for years. One breeder also told me of several other bloodlines to avoid. I know Hereford and Angus bloodlines. They top the sales here so better to just stay with them. I have had no issues with them and have had many. Guess I have been lucky or maybe it is because I know those breeds well after 60 years. Like you I base my opinions on my experience.

 

[Silver]

I have never seen anything to indicate exotic cattle are less docile than British cattle. Never heard it from the buyers either. There are wild strains in both groups, the trick is to not let it propagate.
Personally, I've been the victim of attempted murder by more black cows than red, and I don't own a black cow. But I've worked a few. That's more to do with the management practices of the outfits involved I believe.

 

[Ky hills]

There are many factors that come into play, on people's experiences with cattle breeds. I believe genetics is a definite factor as well as management be it our own and that if where they were bred and raised.
My experience with Gelbvieh is similar to that of Limousin. Purchased stocker sized calves, some crazy and the ones that were not were very good.
There's quite a few Simmental and Simx cattle around here, and over all I'm not impressed with their dispositions. I like them as far as look as long as they are not too short. The last couple years I bought 5weight calves I tried to stay away from anything that didn't look Angus or Angus x Hereford, because those black continental crosses were always a roll of the dice as to how they were going to work for what I wanted as bred heifers where disposition was a major factor in selling them.
I bought a Simmental bull and he was not a good fit either, Only had four calves by him as he got injured, one calf was just like him and was sold, the other 3 seem pretty good.
I know Charolais got a bad reputation years ago for being crazy, but overall with only a few exceptions I have found them to be sone of the best cattle to work with of any breed. Again there were exceptions that were batxxxx crazy.
Herefords can have flighty cattle too.
I've often said that if it's a good all around animal I'd just as soon have an Angus as anything.
There are some lines of Angus that I would not want in the place, and I've seen from some breeders that I wouldn't want any of their animals disposition wise.
There's good and bad in all breeds.
I believe too much reliance on somebody else's cattle via AI has really hurt cow calf producers across the board with what they have to work with and especially so in regards to Angus due to their popularity. The issues are not likely to be corrected any time soon being as there is no real competition or incentive to change what they are doing because the money is still being made by the movers and shakers and AI companies.

 

[faster horses]

There are many factors that come into play, on people's experiences with cattle breeds. I believe genetics is a definite factor as well as management be it our own and that if where they were bred and raised.
My experience with Gelbvieh is similar to that of Limousin. Purchased stocker sized calves, some crazy and the ones that were not were very good.
There's quite a few Simmental and Simx cattle around here, and over all I'm not impressed with their dispositions. I like them as far as look as long as they are not too short. The last couple years I bought 5weight calves I tried to stay away from anything that didn't look Angus or Angus x Hereford, because those black continental crosses were always a roll of the dice as to how they were going to work for what I wanted as bred heifers where disposition was a major factor in selling them.
I bought a Simmental bull and he was not a good fit either, Only had four calves by him as he got injured, one calf was just like him and was sold, the other 3 seem pretty good.
I know Charolais got a bad reputation years ago for being crazy, but overall with only a few exceptions I have found them to be sone of the best cattle to work with of any breed. Again there were exceptions that were batxxxx crazy.
Herefords can have flighty cattle too.
I've often said that if it's a good all around animal I'd just as soon have an Angus as anything.
There are some lines of Angus that I would not want in the place, and I've seen from some breeders that I wouldn't want any of their animals disposition wise.
There's good and bad in all breeds.
I believe too much reliance on somebody else's cattle via AI has really hurt cow calf producers across the board with what they have to work with and especially so in regards to Angus due to their popularity. The issues are not likely to be corrected any time soon being as there is no real competition or incentive to change what they are doing because the money is still being made by the movers and shakers and AI companies.

Some of the AI companies are being swallowed up by big business and no longer provide the services the producer is used to. So maybe things will change in the AI field. Hopefully for the better for the producer. So many companies forget about the END USER.