Open Cows

[HOSS]

I had the vet out Friday to do the annual preg check and update the vaccinations. I came up with two cows open. Both cows are young (both have had one calf) and they weaned off two great calves this summer. Everything else was 3 to 4 months bred which tells me that my bull has done his job. I put him in with the cows June 1st. My delima is what to do with these open cows. Both are very good looking cows and very healthy. The vet said that if they are under 30 days bred it is very hard to confirm the pregnancy. The bull has no interest in them but has been babysitting some of the neighbors cows that are in heat from across the line fence. I have not seen him act like these two cows have been in heat for a while. I wonder if the vet just misjudged the feel or what could have happened to these seemingly healthy cows? Should I wait a couple of months and do a re-check before I pull the plug and cull them? Any thoughts?

 

[bigbull338]

hoss heres what i would do.since you dont know for sure that the heifers or open.an a 30 day bred cow is way to tight to call.id keep them 60 more days an repalpate them.then if open id send them to the sale.i dont think you want cows calving year round like me.

 

[randiliana]

Well, that would depend on what you want for a calving season. Cows that are under a month bred now wont calve before about June 5. For me, these cows wouldn't work as we like to calve March and April. Fertility, is the pretty important, and if she can't get bred in the time frame she needs to be in then she really isn't something you want to keep. It is hard to get a late calving cow (especially one that is 2-3 months behind) to catch back up with the rest of the herd. There is a chance that these two could go on and be good reliable producers, but I think there is likely a better chance that they will be hit and miss cows, or perpetually late calvers. Pretty is as pretty does, and good looking cows aren't always the best cows in the herd.

But, if you really do like these cows, and want to take a chance on them, wait another month and recheck them. You can always calve them out and see if they breed back in better time next year, and then make your decision on them. But you have to draw a line somewhere, and sometimes that means sending some good looking young cows down the road.

We have been in the same position before, and some we kept, some we sold. Got one cow in the herd that is 10 years old. She calved in late June as a heifer and then moved up from there. She is one of the best cows we own. But I have also seen the opposite happen, and you end up with a cow that consistantly calves late. It all depends on what you want in your herd.

 

[bandit80]

I would say it would be very hard for a vet to misjudge a cow, but it has happened. If she is under 30 days bred, it is basically impossible to determine if she is bred. I would do as BB recommended. Wait 60 days and have them pregged again. If they are still open, I'd cull them. If they are bred, 60-90 days, you can make the determination if you want to keep something that is 2-3 months behind the rest of your herd.

If they are open, I would cull regardless of how "good" they look. Fertility is a big thing with me, and I know of some producers who will "excuse" an open first calf heifer if she raised a good calf. Well, their job is to raise a good calf AND breed back! Putting them back in the herd for the next breeding season not only costs you additional money in feed, etc, but could aslo put some infertility into your herd if you keep replacements. I'd ship them and buy a couple to replace them if you don't develop your own heifers.

Rigorous culling for infertility will result in a very fertile cow herd in just a few years. It may pain you to sell a particular animal, but you will be better off in the long run.

 

[Engler]

IF you have feed for them, and IF you have space for them, and IF you can pull the trigger on them if something needs to be done I would keep them around.

In my area pound cows bring more in the spring than the fall, so if they are open and if you can put some flesh on them they SHOULD make more money doing this. If they are indeed short bred they should be worth more with a small calf at side or heavy bred come next spring/early summer. There is that chance that the vet did miss them and it would really stink to can a good one because someone screwed up.

 

[HOSS]

Update:

Was working on my yard today and noticed my bull tending one of the open cows I mentioned above. She was in standing heat because he bred her 4 times in about 30 minutes. Each time extending her tail out and hunching up in the classic "just been bred" pose. Now I know she was open. I just have to make a decision on whether to check her in December and keep her and calve her or sell her. Don't know about the other. I may take the advice of palping both in December and see what is what. I really like both cows so we will see what happens.

 

[Beefy]

i would keep them and not think twice about it.

 

[double v]

Seems like you have worked hard to get that herd were it is if their good cows how hard or easy is it to replace them?

 

[wade]

How many days were they fresh when you turned the bull in with them? Did these two cows have difficulty calving?
I wish I had all the answers for you and me both. I strictly AI and ended up with 9 cows due in March and April and 2 of my nicest due way out in the first of June. I thought all my troubles would be over if I just had a cleanup bull. Guess a bull isn't always the answer. I checked my records on these two cows and each cow was bred once AI and calved spring 07, 08 one was bred once and one twice. This summer I bred these 2 cows each 3 times before I finally got them settled. Vet was out to preg check and took selenium and that was fine. Guess my breeding timing wasn't good or something.

 

[I luv herfrds]

Hoss we just had our herd preg checked. Had 4 come up open. We kept back 3 because they have calved before, the one we sent down the road was a first year heifer. The heifer would normally be kept, just to give her another chance, but I had caught the bull breeding her twice.

I would keep them.

 

[TexasBred]

I think I would cull em. I had three come up open at preg check this year. They are going down the road later in the week.

"Good looking" open cattle sell pretty well right now. I'd get rid of her only because of the late calving time and having to carry her thru the winter potentially "open" and at best short bred.

 

[HOSS]

How many days were they fresh when you turned the bull in with them? Did these two cows have difficulty calving?
I wish I had all the answers for you and me both. I strictly AI and ended up with 9 cows due in March and April and 2 of my nicest due way out in the first of June. I thought all my troubles would be over if I just had a cleanup bull. Guess a bull isn't always the answer. I checked my records on these two cows and each cow was bred once AI and calved spring 07, 08 one was bred once and one twice. This summer I bred these 2 cows each 3 times before I finally got them settled. Vet was out to preg check and took selenium and that was fine. Guess my breeding timing wasn't good or something.

These two cows had their first calves in March. Both had healthy bull calves that weaned off at about 570 pounds in 180 days. I turned the bull in on Memorial Day. I like both of these cows phenotypically. Lots of length, capacity and butt. Both are good milkers and didn't pull down too bad with their first calf. Still I don't know what I am going to do. I may hold onto them until December since the feed bill will be low. I still have lots of pasture.

 

[TexasBred]

HOSS..in short your saying "I'm keepin'em". ;-)

 

[msscamp]

I had the vet out Friday to do the annual preg check and update the vaccinations. I came up with two cows open. Both cows are young (both have had one calf) and they weaned off two great calves this summer. Everything else was 3 to 4 months bred which tells me that my bull has done his job. I put him in with the cows June 1st. My delima is what to do with these open cows. Both are very good looking cows and very healthy. The vet said that if they are under 30 days bred it is very hard to confirm the pregnancy. The bull has no interest in them but has been babysitting some of the neighbors cows that are in heat from across the line fence. I have not seen him act like these two cows have been in heat for a while. I wonder if the vet just misjudged the feel or what could have happened to these seemingly healthy cows? Should I wait a couple of months and do a re-check before I pull the plug and cull them? Any thoughts?

How many cows were you running with this bull? It would seem to me they have already established that they are fertile and fully capable of settling - since they both delivered a calf this summer. Did you have them checked out when they turned up "open"? What was the result of that check-up? I think I would be a little more reluctant to cull, and maybe a little more inclined to taking a little closer look at my management practices - but that is probably just me.

 

[HOSS]

This bull was in with less than 20 cows. He is 24 months old and passed a BSE earlier this year so he handled it well. The vet said she could not "feel" anything wrong. She said that they may have been pregnany but slipped the calves for wahtever reason. I have had plenty of pasture (mixed fescue, clover, johnson and crab grass) and they are on a free choice mineral program specified by my local extension agent based off of our grazing and soil conditions. They are very healthy. Vet commented on how healthy they looked. The only common denominator that I can see is that both open cows were purchased from the same farm as heifers. I have had them for about 16 months. I don't know if that means much.

 

[jcarkie]

i run 2 calving seasons spring(feb 1 -april 1) & Fall (sept 1 - nov 1). my rule is 1st calf heifer can move to the next season if she did a good job,it is cheaper to give her an extra 6 months than raising a replacement to take her place, mature cows go down the road. if i had one season i wouldn't let any stay . i can't wait that long. i don't want any summer calve at all !!!!

 

[Beefy]

i run 2 calving seasons spring(feb 1 -april 1) & Fall (sept 1 - nov 1). my rule is 1st calf heifer can move to the next season if she did a good job,it is cheaper to give her an extra 6 months than raising a replacement to take her place, mature cows go down the road. if i had one season i wouldn't let any stay . i can't wait that long. i don't want any summer calve at all !!!!

same.

 

[msscamp]

This bull was in with less than 20 cows. He is 24 months old and passed a BSE earlier this year so he handled it well. The vet said she could not "feel" anything wrong. She said that they may have been pregnany but slipped the calves for wahtever reason. I have had plenty of pasture (mixed fescue, clover, johnson and crab grass) and they are on a free choice mineral program specified by my local extension agent based off of our grazing and soil conditions. They are very healthy. Vet commented on how healthy they looked. The only common denominator that I can see is that both open cows were purchased from the same farm as heifers. I have had them for about 16 months. I don't know if that means much.

Less than 20 cows should be no problem at all for 1 bull, and these 2 particular cows have been with him for 4 months. I believe I would be culling these two cows. They have had 4 cycles to settle, and apparently have not. I give my goats 2 cycles to settle, and cull if they haven't.