I just calved a first calf charlo daughter. Charlo has terrible calving ease maternal EPD. I ai'd with a calving ease bull but still decided to induce a week early. glad I did. what a pull. 72 pound heifer calf barely made it through. Obviously not speaking to Charlo, but what a blessing to be able to induce and be off work and ready. they say calf gains almost a pound a day in the last week. that inducing puts em right on the ground exactly at the 30-40 hour mark post shots too. does make me a tick nervous for the couple other charlo daughters that will calve next year. they are dandy heifers.
Inducing Cows to Calve Early
- Thread starter angus9259
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Dsth
Well-known member
I have induced a cow that had a repaired prolapse and it did work out well for keeping a close eye on her to cut stitches when labor started. Glad you had good luck with the Charlo daughters. I used him a few years ago and kept a few heifers from him. sold last one 3 weeks ago. one never had a calf because she was crazy. one sold after first calf for same reason. the last one was the only one out of the three that was somewhat quiet until I tried to run her through the chute. had to bottle feed her last calf because her udder was too low for calf to find the teat. She was short on stature herself which didn't help. I have a heifer calf now from my last straw that I always know where she is at feeding time. she is the only one that runs the other way when I go in with a bucket of feed. never so glad to see last straw of any other bull get used and out of my tank.
StrojanHerefords
Well-known member
If a cow needs to be induced, she needs to become hamburger.
The prolapse deal is where I first learned if it. I had the same thing. Unstitch, calves, stitch, wean calf, cull cow. Magic.
Yeah I've had a bunch of Charlo calves and not really had a docility problem - though it's in his EPDs for sure. Sold a lot of quiet bulls out of him. No issues. This heifer is the first one I kept. She's real quiet. Definitely short stature though. I used him on some large frame cows and he will definitely knock the leg off em.
And let the side debate not pertaining to the post at all begin!!! That didn't take long
Anywho..... it's a great tool for certain circumstances. Use the info or discard as you see best for yourself.
Dave
Well-known member
If a heifer had problems with a 72 pound calf she wouldn't be having a second one here. And it would appear that you are a purebred breeder. If I found out you were keeping heifers that have problems with a calf that size I would do my shopping else where.
GoWyo
Well-known member
Glad that worked out for you. Calving heifers and having a full-time job can be tough. I've watched the Coleman female sale on the internet a couple of times. Some of the Charlo daughters go through the sale ring and rattle the fence and try to hook the ringmen. They can be pretty salty. Never bred anything to him, so I have no first hand knowledge other than watching the Coleman sale.
GoWyo
Well-known member
Are the calves shaped like little bricks? That would be my guess and maybe the cows can be a little pinched at the pins?
You're awesome. Thank you all for sharing your intellect with me!! You know I never really thought about culling that heifer/cow. I'm really really pleased you very wise people brought that subject to my attention. It must have been the fact that I said in my original post I was planning to keep this animal. Wait.... did my original post say that? No, it did not. But still - I super appreciate the fact you read between the lines and found words that weren't there and were willing to save me from myself!
Just curious why no one has mentioned how infrequently I change the oil in my truck? Surely you read that somewhere in my post as well?
Well, @angus9259, I am a little curious about your choice of using that bull, retaining heifers and end goal. But primarily because it's so different from mine. But I'm commercial, not registered. Is that a factor? And how old, weight/frame score is the aforementioned heifer?
The bulls I buy (natural service, not AI) are high CE and CEM, huge docility, growth, etc. Cows I have & heifers I retain are from my best lineages and have longevity and a proven calving history. Heifers I retain should (theoretically) be able to calve a 70-75+ calf unassisted (I did have to pull a 105 lb heifer calf from a 1st calf heifer this year). Steers I sell average 700 lbs, heifers 600 weaned 45-60 days. But I'm always open to a different perspective.
The bulls I buy (natural service, not AI) are high CE and CEM, huge docility, growth, etc. Cows I have & heifers I retain are from my best lineages and have longevity and a proven calving history. Heifers I retain should (theoretically) be able to calve a 70-75+ calf unassisted (I did have to pull a 105 lb heifer calf from a 1st calf heifer this year). Steers I sell average 700 lbs, heifers 600 weaned 45-60 days. But I'm always open to a different perspective.
wbvs58
Well-known member
I'll often use it with heifers if they look like going well over the due date, works well, often they will be bull calves heading towards the 45kg mark. It stops them getting out to the 1 week over mark and I am there to assist if need. I had the problem last year when I kept the heifers on the home block, they just did too well and two had big bull calves that just didn't want to face up to the outside world, funny the heifers had Charlo as a grandsire on the maternal side. This year the heifers wintered with the cows in my scrub block and it was just like shelling peas.
Ken
Ken
notEXTRAspecial
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BFE
Well-known member
Ebenezer
Well-known member
Quite an odd reaction. You posted your problem, have sold Charlo sons, have other daughters to calve in 24... To have to induce a cow or heifer just to keep them or to have a bull in the pedigree is not the best use of my time, expense and labor. It seems that others just pointed that out and you say it is a distraction from your point. It is a discussion of the obvious. Seems to be a touchy issue for you to jump into oil change stuff. You can walk or ride a donkey and not own a truck as far as this discussion goes. If it were me, and it is not, I would warn all of the buyers of those gentle Charlo sons you sold to watch for problems and I would chunk any remaining semen in the trash. Life is too short to make it hard.
Silver
Well-known member
I know of a purebred breeder that ai's and induces a week before due date. Makes me even more suspicious of epd's.
Redgully
Well-known member
We induced once, murray grey cow with a shorthorn calf. Always calved 278 days, this one went 290 so she got the jab. Turns out it was a backwards calf. We pulled him and he made it so alls well that ends well. I can see a use for it when upsizing a commercial herd using crossbreeding.
simme
Old Dumb Guy
I believe in this case that the evidence provides proof that epd's have value. Bottom 5% of the angus breed for CEM - indication of how easy his daughters will calve with their first calf. Couple that with small frame. Maybe pelvic measurements of the heifers would have provided more information.
Travlr
Well-known member
If I had to pull a 72 pound calf because the heifer couldn't do the job I'd be looking for new bloodlines.
Travlr
Well-known member
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Silver
Well-known member
I'm not in the purebred business so I don't understand. If I induce a cow 10 days early and she has a 90 lb calf unassisted and I report the info on the report without mentioning the fact that she was induced early would this not skew the numbers?
