Bull calf 2 weeks early No suck reflex.

[Chuckie]

Just had a calf born this morning. March 21. It was not due till April 3rd. Approx 2 weeks early Tried to get a bottle down it, and no sucking but would swallow what little went down. So wasted half bag of colostrum. Came back and mixed enough that would make a half gallon and put it in a tube bag, and got that in him.

His neck was so thick it took forever to feel the tube going down on the left hand side. I can feel it real well as it goes down an Angus. It took several tries to find that bulb. My Grandson could not feel it either. Finally felt it at the top high then it is undetectable. On the Angus I fan feel it going down almost half the distance of the neck.

At least he has colostrum in him now, and that is a relief.

He sure does not look 2 weeks early...

Anyone have trouble with a 2 week premature calf that will not suck? I laid out in the pasture a few hours twice today and watched, and never latched on. Smelled around in that area, but that was it.

If you ever had one that was born early and no suck reflex, did it begin to suck after it got a few days on it. The roof of its mouth feels normal. Just seemed like he had a bit of a thick tongue. Probably because of his size. I would say he weighed 100 lbs.

Mama was so gentle before but now she is pizzed off to the max. He is about 1.5 hours old here.

 

[GoWyo]

Maybe a Madigan squeeze would help? Never tried it, but here is some literature and there are YouTube videos of how to do it. https://thatsfarming.com/farming-news/the-madigan-squeeze-saved-this-calfs-life/

 

[Hereford2]

Shot of Bo-SE is what I use for the one's that won't suck, my vet said it's a selenium defecincy. We are in a low selenium area though.

 

[Chuckie]

Thank you both. My mineral is a 30ppm selenium, but that is a problem in Piedmontese. That they require higher selenium. I may have found out that 30ppm is not high enough. Only other mineral I know that is higher is a Moorman mineral which I cannot get.
That rope tied around the middle may work. But crap, now I have to find someone else to come back and help me. It is hard as he77 to get some of this stuff done when no one else is around and you're doing it by yourself. My grandson set on him long enough while I was trying to tube him, Maybe that was like a rope around his middle. Ha-ha!! My Grandson weighs around 200 lbs.
I used to give mares a selenium shot to be sure the placenta would be thin.. All the vets are closed and I wil l have to go get a bottle in the morning.

 

[Chuckie]

Shot of Bo-SE is what I use for the one's that won't suck, my vet said it's a selenium defecincy. We are in a low selenium area though.

We are too. It will show a few sites that are OK but it is hard to tell on that selenium map for each state.

 

[MurraysMutts]

2 weeks sure ain't premature in my book. I did have a dummy calf a couple years ago tho. I did same as u, except calf sucked a bottle of colostrum down. He just would not suck the cow and had given up. She had larger, shorter teats. He'd nose the teat right outta his way and couldn't get latched on. I caught the cow and put her in the chute next day. Helped him along and repeatedly had to put the teat in his mouth. He figured it out but it took a couple days. Cow was very easy going. After the first day I was able to help the calf get latched on with her standing at feed.

 

[Nick Wagner]

Had a calf that wouldn't suck, luckily the cow let me milk her and I tubed it for about three weeks. One morning it sucked on my finger as I was starting to feed it, put a teat in its mouth and it went to nursing. Grew okay, sold calf and cow that fall. Not sure I'd have the patience today. Good luck.

 

[Chuckie]

I don't really call a calf 2 weeks early premature, but, I am giving you all the info I have to help make a call. He is fully developed and does not appear to be premature at all.
If anyone had a calf born 2 weeks early, and did not suck, then there is a pattern.
No signs of being early, but he is. Huge calf. She looked huge during pregnancy and thought it might be twins.
So take it for what it is...

He still does not have a sucking reflex this morning as I tubed him again last night and waiting for someone to come help me now. He was bright eyed and seemed to be glad to see me. I will try to get the cow up and start milking her.

I am not up to the task right now, either, but it is like when you don't have time to be admitted to the hospital, and then ***BAM,**** Out of your control and there it is. Not going to let him die.

Gave him oral selenium last night and going to give him a shot of Mulitmin. Hope that it helps.

Thanks everybody.

 

[Chuckie]

Noticed that he has better use of his tongue when I tubed him. I held his tongue down a bit with my thumb, and he tried to pull it from underneath the pressure. I messed with his tongue a bit so he would realize that he could use it. But the tone is much better today. His neck is like his full sisters neck, just very thick. I think he was more relaxed and could feel the tube up at the top a little better, but it disappears quickly. Just incredible thickness along the esophagus and wind pipe of muscle so that it does not stand out alone like it did on the Angus. This is a new breed for me and I am learning as I go. Here is his full sister 7 or 8 months. Just extremely thick cattle. Just a lot of mass underneath.

Gave him a shot of the Multimin 90, in the rump, sub Q, as not to make his neck sore. Let's see if that changes his tongue a bit.

I am used to Angus udders, but notice how extremely large the mother's udder became , the teats on all the Piedmontese I am seeing point forward as if it is designed for the calf to walk up and get poked in the eye. Sure makes the searching easy!!

Here is where my problem started I feel...

I had purchased a protein tub for a 3 and 5 month old calf. Told the man I wanted no Urea. He said this one has no urea, and I have feed for the calves and hay, but wanted to make sure they did not go lacking for anything as they were pulled early. Rolled the tub out of the back of my truck and it hit mud and the tub go so muddy. Tore the top off and carried the top inside with me to read when I sat down. Started reading the top, and CRAP! It has Urea in it. Same man that told me every ingredient in Vita Ferm was chelated. WRONG again. Anything to sell a product.... Went back out the next day and threw it out to the big cows as they get feed as well. Bought the calves a protein tub a horse, or goat could eat at 16%.

I have a feeling my cows were going to the mineral tub more than the mineral because of the molasses.
My calves go to the mineral and I keep having to add it even with their mineral tub. I have a feeling the other with molasses is like a sucker with a touch of salt. I just looked up the selenium on the Crystal Lyx, and it was 8.8 ppm. BOO!!! I think this is where my shortage is that they went to the tub instead of the mineral itself. If the tub had not been in there, I would have had to add more mineral, but I have not. I screwed up!! First protein tub I have ever used. And the last....

No more freaking protein/mineral tubs......... They would have been consuming 30 ppm selenium in the mineral. When my Grandson comes this afternoon, we must get it out of the mud and out of their reach. They have plenty protein, but did not want to throw it away as they are not cheap.

I have never had this problem before.... lesson learned.

I think he is like what @Hereford2 said, short on selenium.
I am going to pick up a bottle of B12 when I go out... I am not planning on losing this calf.

 

[Hereford2]

Very Nice looking cattle!

 

[Chuckie]

I think it is important to write about problems we face with calves or cattle. When I write that the calf is premature at 2 weeks old, which is easy for a cow to go a shorter term gestation, and much better than her going 2 weeks over as the calf continues to grow inside her. Makes for a more difficult birth.

But by writing what I am going through and giving all the things listed that could be the cause, there are a lot of new cattle people searching for the same problem on line, and these things pop up in a search.

I have had cattle for a long time and have been through about everything there is to go wrong. Tubed more calves than I wanted to. Some because they got sick and some that would refuse to suck a bottle and fought like crazy because the cow had twins and would not accept both. Just one cow that would not take both.

Type in a search engine for cattle problems, and it often sends them to this site as we all discuss the problems. I hope to end this posting that the calf began to suck a bottle. And maybe people will find a solution to their problem as well.

I don't think this calf has full blown white muscle disease, but he needs a boost in his drinking. Doesn't seem like a dummy calf as I had only one of those before.

 

[TexasJerseyMilker]

Aren't Piedmontese double muscled? Maybe that's why the thick neck.

 

[gcreekrch]

Were it me, the calf would get a shot of Borgal on the chance it was born with a touch of Meningitis. Then, once he was weaned, his mother and her swing bag would take a ride to the burger factory.

 

[Chuckie]

Aren't Piedmontese double muscled? Maybe that's why the thick neck.

Yes, you are so correct, but I did not realize this area would be so tucked up in muscles to where you cannot feel it hardly at all. Just something I did not expect. You expect to feel that tube sliding down. It can be felt in a very short area just behind the jowl, for about an inch, but past that, it is out of sight. That inch you feel, you are not sure if it is what you are feeling. I cannot slide it back and forth to detect it. I wish the end of my feed bag had just a slightly larger tip so I could detect it better. Angus, I think I could feel it if the tip was the same as the tube.

 

[Chuckie]

Were it me, the calf would get a shot of Borgal on the chance it was born with a touch of Meningitis. Then, once he was weaned, his mother and her swing bag would take a ride to the burger factory.

Piedmontese are a dual purpose cow gcreekrqch. You are rough on a dairy cow that is used for meat, and she must be milked out in the morning. I think I will hang on to her.....

 

[gcreekrch]

Piedmontese are a dual purpose cow gcreekrqch. You are rough on a dairy cow that is used for meat, and she must be milked out in the morning. I think I will hang on to her.....

I don't have the time or inclination. There are too many good ones to deal with cows like this one.
I hope you aren't leaving the calf a bull to perpetuate the problem.

 

[Chuckie]

OK @gcreekrch, first let me give you some history of my line of angus. I do not inbreed but line breeding. I raised a lot of heifers and I had two that after they had calves developed very large bags. The cows were what I call really good conformation with good legs and structure, but, large bags. So I breed these two heifers which became old cows, and not a single heifer either one that I owned passed that large bag. Neither did the bulls that I raised from them pass big bags to the other heifers that had. So what makes cows from the same family show up with a big bag when the others do not? He77 if I know. But I kept them to see if they passed that gene to their offspring and the answer is no.
That is my experience in over 20 years of raising Registerd Angus.

You don't like the cow, I could care less.

 

[angus9259]

Back to what I think the thread is about which is dealing with a dummy calf. Shot of bo se is what all my calves get. When I get a dummy calf I don't rearrange my mineral program or go on a culling spree. I think for the most part in this game stuff just happens and I move on. I tube twice with colostrum and then go to the gas station for a couple gallons of whole milk. Then tube twice a day till they start to suck. I don't milk momma. No time for that. I DO NOT overfeed the calf. Keep it alive but hungry. Takes patience but massive time or overthinking

That's what I do.

 

[gcreekrch]

OK @gcreekrch, first let me give you some history of my line of angus. I do not inbreed but line breeding. I raised a lot of heifers and I had two that after they had calves developed very large bags. The cows were what I call really good conformation with good legs and structure, but, large bags. So I breed these two heifers which became old cows, and not a single heifer either one that I owned passed that large bag. Neither did the bulls that I raised from them pass big bags to the other heifers that had. So what makes cows from the same family show up with a big bag when the others do not? He77 if I know. But I kept them to see if they passed that gene to their offspring and the answer is no.
That is my experience in over 20 years of raising Registerd Angus.

You don't like the cow, I could care less.

Did you doctor the calf? You do what you like with your cows, if you ever have over 500 of them you will know what I mean about poor quality udders.

 

[Chuckie]

@gcreekrch, I have not had commercial cows. My husband did that part as his farm 25 miles away. So a lot of the heifers went there. So did some bulls that I raised and just a few heifers were sold. I keep up with what I have raised at the commercial herd and those that we sold to others locally, and see the great grand daughters of the cows and to the bulls. I have not found a larger udder to be hereditary. They talk about how a bull or a cow has a great udder, and that is good. Cows come to their milk different times before they calve.

I find these to get more edema up part of the way to their stomach several days before they calve, as they are milking machines. Then many just come to their milk just a few hours before they calve. Some, I am not even sure they have milk until the calf starts nursing. I do not like this type of cow that stays real small. They may have a milk number of 28 which I say is BS. I might rate them at a 13. Then some that are swollen with milk up a good ways on their stomach, and their bag is getting tight, now that is a 32. But the grading system for cows is off on milk in my honest opinion. I wish they would change the Milk EPD's to their true milking ability.
Those tiny udders with less milk, I watch the calf staying, and butting over and over, thinking she will let more milk down, but there is no more.

I had much rather a cow come to her milk early. Not like a bushel basket. But a good sized udder.

A Pied has a very different shaped udder. All the teats come out at a 45° facing toward the front. It is odd, but I will just have to adjust to it. Angus and all other cows that I have seen, the teats hang straight down.

I was so glad to get her milked out today as I had to have help as she is angry over me handling her baby so much. Even her pasture mate, Fanny is protective of the calf. I like that, but I have had to get with both the cows to make them back off. Just have to keep an eye on them. Those raging hormones are "all keyed up."
Once I got her milked out, she was greatly reduced. I will start milking her out once a day in hopes that he will start nursing.

I hear on the Jersey boards how the Cows, if they have a calf that they are sharing milk with; that the Jersey cow will with hold the cream back for the calf. This is where I don't understand the mechanics of a Dairy cow and how she does that. The say they get only milk and no cream at all. Louise did that today. Only milk and not an ounce of cream in the Jars. Where is the cream located, and how does she do that?

Here is a cow udder that I like to see on my Mama cows. Not my cow... I like this cow from the flanks forward, but do not like her from the flank back. I do not like her rear end nor do I like her back legs. I have drawn a yellow line showing how far her back leg extends behind her and that leg is straight and should be even with the point of her butt. They are weak if it trails that far behind. But I do like her udder. So many of mine have smaller udders. This one will hold enough milk and that calf won't keep butting trying to get her to release more as it is empty. She can raise a fine calf with an udder like that. I am sure that a lot of people will not like that udder. That is just my opinion.