Bull calf 2 weeks early No suck reflex.

[chevytaHOE5674]

In my experience physical udder size doesn't mean much. Some of my heaviest weaning cows have very small visible udders.

That white cow with the large teats is asking for calf nursing/latching troubles in my experience. She would catch a ride to the sale barn for sure.

 

[farmerjan]

Although this is not exactly the "right way" to describe it, for practical purposes it is easier to understand. A cow that is making milk and letting it down is something like milk in a jar... the cream "rises" to the top... so the greatest concentration of butterfat is towards the end of the milking.... "top of the udder" so last to come down. That is where people say the cow is holding up the cream... well actually she is not holding the cream, it is just that there is more cream towards the end of the milking session. When I do the milk testing, I have to make sure I agitate the milk in the meter so the butterfat is mixed in so the milk I draw out the bottom of the meter, is not all "skim milk"...
Size of udder does not necessarily have much to do with actual production. It does allow for more capacity, but that doesn't mean the cow will milk better than a smaller uddered animal. My longhorn has what I call a "tea cup" udder and it has got to be very high butterfat because she raises FAT, butterball calves... and for the first 2 calves you couldn't even see the udder.....
There are several young cows on a dairy I just tested with them making 35-45 lbs milk at one milking and you look at them and wonder where they hid all that milk in that "tiny udder"... and some older cows that have large udders that make a huge amount of milk..... The thing is you want the udder to have good "attachment" so that is is not hanging down like a basketball in a small bag.... you want good fore udder attachment and good center ligament attachment in the back with good definition between the 2 back quarters...
I am not in love with the udder on the cow you pictured, but it certainly is not the worst I have seen... getting her milked out and taking out some of the pressure, and the edema, will go along ways.
Because of that, she would have a short life in a commercial beef herd, but there are worse things... hopefully, the calf will get it figured out and start to suck.... and then will help break up the edema by butting her. She is a nice animal overall....

Suggestion... get some of the "udder spray" for dairy animals... it is a mint extract.... usually always a blue spray... the mint causes some heat and the heat causes the edema to break up better... helps with hard tight udders also... and will get more blood flow to the area which will also help to prevent mastitis..... they make a cream also to rub on the udder and some like that... would make you think of "Vicks Vapo Rub" except it smells minty... but creates some heat and it really does help with blood flow which helps with edema and such....

 

[gcreekrch]

Although this is not exactly the "right way" to describe it, for practical purposes it is easier to understand. A cow that is making milk and letting it down is something like milk in a jar... the cream "rises" to the top... so the greatest concentration of butterfat is towards the end of the milking.... "top of the udder" so last to come down. That is where people say the cow is holding up the cream... well actually she is not holding the cream, it is just that there is more cream towards the end of the milking session. When I do the milk testing, I have to make sure I agitate the milk in the meter so the butterfat is mixed in so the milk I draw out the bottom of the meter, is not all "skim milk"...
Size of udder does not necessarily have much to do with actual production. It does allow for more capacity, but that doesn't mean the cow will milk better than a smaller uddered animal. My longhorn has what I call a "tea cup" udder and it has got to be very high butterfat because she raises FAT, butterball calves... and for the first 2 calves you couldn't even see the udder.....
There are several young cows on a dairy I just tested with them making 35-45 lbs milk at one milking and you look at them and wonder where they hid all that milk in that "tiny udder"... and some older cows that have large udders that make a huge amount of milk..... The thing is you want the udder to have good "attachment" so that is is not hanging down like a basketball in a small bag.... you want good fore udder attachment and good center ligament attachment in the back with good definition between the 2 back quarters...
I am not in love with the udder on the cow you pictured, but it certainly is not the worst I have seen... getting her milked out and taking out some of the pressure, and the edema, will go along ways.
Because of that, she would have a short life in a commercial beef herd, but there are worse things... hopefully, the calf will get it figured out and start to suck.... and then will help break up the edema by butting her. She is a nice animal overall....

Suggestion... get some of the "udder spray" for dairy animals... it is a mint extract.... usually always a blue spray... the mint causes some heat and the heat causes the edema to break up better... helps with hard tight udders also... and will get more blood flow to the area which will also help to prevent mastitis..... they make a cream also to rub on the udder and some like that... would make you think of "Vicks Vapo Rub" except it smells minty... but creates some heat and it really does help with blood flow which helps with edema and such....

I learned something today, thanks Jan.

 

[wbvs58]

@Chuckie Milk EPD is only calculated from the weaning weight of her calves.
Ken

 

[Chuckie]

@wbvs58 , I knew they used the weight of the calf for milk.
Thanks for explaining that @farmerjan. On the Jersey forum they are always showing milk from a milk cow that they share with the calf. Then when they are sharing, there is no cream in the jar. Then they show the jar of milk from the cow that the calf has been pulled and there is a lot of cream in the jar.
So many people that own dairy cattle harp on that all the time. But what you say makes sense. I just can't figure out where her cream was if I am the only one pulling it. Maybe they don't have cream in the beginning....

I totally milked her out twice and there is no cream. The first time I milked her out I got over a gallon of milk. I had carried two 1/2 gallon jars out there and they were totally filled. Then the rest in the bucket, I poured out as I was doing all I could do at the time this crap was going on.... She had been gorged with milk for so long before she had him, and then after she had him, that she was extremely full. I milked her out as I knew the calf would not be sucking anytime soon. But no cream as I put it in the refrigerator. Just plain milk.
I fed him the first milking and realized if she was still selenium deficient, then so was her milk. But she is eating the mineral now as I caught her in it twice now.

But after four days of tubing him he is now sucking all four quarters. He started nursing Monday morning and is going after all four quarters hard an heavy. Her udder does not look anything like it did the other day as I will have to take a picture of it again. It was so tight that I was worried about her.

I am still going to have to go with trying to see if she passes that same udder down to her calves. If she does not, then she gets to hang around. She is a good cow body wise. Once that udder is milked out the first time then it goes back down.

 

[Chuckie]

Although this is not exactly the "right way" to describe it, for practical purposes it is easier to understand. A cow that is making milk and letting it down is something like milk in a jar... the cream "rises" to the top... so the greatest concentration of butterfat is towards the end of the milking.... "top of the udder" so last to come down. That is where people say the cow is holding up the cream... well actually she is not holding the cream, it is just that there is more cream towards the end of the milking session. When I do the milk testing, I have to make sure I agitate the milk in the meter so the butterfat is mixed in so the milk I draw out the bottom of the meter, is not all "skim milk"...
Size of udder does not necessarily have much to do with actual production. It does allow for more capacity, but that doesn't mean the cow will milk better than a smaller uddered animal. My longhorn has what I call a "tea cup" udder and it has got to be very high butterfat because she raises FAT, butterball calves... and for the first 2 calves you couldn't even see the udder.....
There are several young cows on a dairy I just tested with them making 35-45 lbs milk at one milking and you look at them and wonder where they hid all that milk in that "tiny udder"... and some older cows that have large udders that make a huge amount of milk..... The thing is you want the udder to have good "attachment" so that is is not hanging down like a basketball in a small bag.... you want good fore udder attachment and good center ligament attachment in the back with good definition between the 2 back quarters...
I am not in love with the udder on the cow you pictured, but it certainly is not the worst I have seen... getting her milked out and taking out some of the pressure, and the edema, will go along ways.
Because of that, she would have a short life in a commercial beef herd, but there are worse things... hopefully, the calf will get it figured out and start to suck.... and then will help break up the edema by butting her. She is a nice animal overall....

Suggestion... get some of the "udder spray" for dairy animals... it is a mint extract.... usually always a blue spray... the mint causes some heat and the heat causes the edema to break up better... helps with hard tight udders also... and will get more blood flow to the area which will also help to prevent mastitis..... they make a cream also to rub on the udder and some like that... would make you think of "Vicks Vapo Rub" except it smells minty... but creates some heat and it really does help with blood flow which helps with edema and such....

At the time, I put bag balm on it as I had not come back to your posting. I have too much going on at one time and I can go days and not have time to read the forum. So thank you for that information and it would be good for me to have that on hand if I run into that situation again. It is funny that her daughter, you have to really get under her to see what is to be an udder. Funny how they are nothing to a large udder.

I have another that is a 1/4 Jersey and 3/4 Piedmontese. I guess that will be interesting as well.

 

[Chuckie]

I have excellent mineral but they were not eating it. I have a very large mineral feeder that would take a long time to empty, and it is muddy around it. I stuck my hand in it to see that they still had a lot. Then realize they are eating the protein tub for salt and sugar and no mineral. Tub is out of there now, and I see the cows back in the mineral feeder. It was just a mistake to put that protein tub out. I should have given it to someone else instead of using it just because I paid for it. I paid for it for about 4 days after that by having to tube the calf. Glad I caught it before the next one calves.