More pro Angus statements.

[limftw]

I like angus for their calving ease, they gain like crazy if you have the groceries, and there is no denying that a black hide typically pays more (at least in my area).

Like all breeds they have their good and bad points. PAP and altitude is a major problem with many bloodlines for this area as well as soundness. My experience with purebred angus is limited compared to most but of the several females i've purchased from various programs I can count the cows on one hand that truly thrive in our setting. The crossbred cattle in our herd far outperform both the purebred limis and angus.

 

[u4411clb]

The Angus guys would love for some lawsuit or the media to pick up on CAB story. All it would do is drive up the price of real DNA verified Angus beef because people would demand real Angus beef for CAB. The only people that would be hurt would be the Black Simm and Black Limo and Black Gelb and Black Char and Black Hereford people. Whether people like it or not CAB raises all boats not just Angus. Trying to fight them or stop them is not going to hurt real Angus only all the other breeds. CAB is the best thing that ever happen to the other breeds.

Eliminating fake Rolex watches would not hurt real Rolex watch dealers. It would only force people to have to by real verified Rolex watches.

PS. I do not raise registered Angus cows but do use Reg Angus bulls along with Reg Hereford bulls and Gert\Hereford bull.

 

[TexasBred]

CAB is a joke it should be called Certified Black Beef. It is interesting reading all y'alls post about Angus.

You're 100% correct, however, it has made a lot of money for producers and those willing to pay extra for black beef deserve just what they get.

 

[TexasBred]

CAB is a joke it should be called Certified Black Beef. It is interesting reading all y'alls post about Angus.

:lol2:

You're right about CAB being a joke and in my honest opinion that they should do a DNA testing on these black hided ones. It's easy to paint a cow black without using an angus and a lot of guys are using black bulls on everything here, even if the black bulls are mutts. Why? Because they knows they won't get docked for having a black calf.

CAB, isn't a joke to me. My black Angus crossed calves bring a premium over my red Angus crossed calves. $50.00 dollars a calf more for being black is a good thing to me. Some folks can't market anything.

And over here put a little ear on that calf and you'll get another $50.00

 

[TexasBred]

Just for giggles I logged back in. Took me a while. Could not remember password. I think it's been 7 or so years. Still the same arguments over Angus cattle. If they are still here I say hello Doc and hello Dun.

That will always be true as long as you have different folks in different locations raising different breeds of cattle. Just the way it is.

 

[Bigfoot]

I'm surprised we've had some negative comments about angus, and nobody has threatened a lawsuit.

 

[Post Oak]

Here's my situation in South Carolina. I get more money at the sale barn for solid blacks than I do baldies/brockles, but I get better replacement heifers from the Angus sired heifers that are the least Angus. My Angus crossbreeds are more fertile than straight Angus. So do I dilly dally with a Simangus, Balancer, or a Limflex bull to keep it crossbred?

 

[djinwa]

At some point, due to the fraud of CAB, and animal welfare issues, something will have to change.

The part of CAB I get a kick out of is the word CERTIFY. I mean, when you certify something, you give complete assurance that it is true. So to certify that a CAB animal is actually angus, but is not, is complete and utter fraud. Excuses can be made, but how would it look if I painted a Mitsubishi tractor green and certified it as John Deere?

IMO They started out with a good product and knew how to market it. And in case it was before your time, Angus was black before black was cool.

Actually, black never has been cool, but hot. Black hides are an undesirable trait because of heat stress, as animal scientists are making more obvious. So black was never a good product. Might as well promote prolapses or bad udders or bad feet or poor gain or whatever. We ignore bad traits when we think they make us money. Of course, it is much easier to see the check at the salebarn than the costs of heat stress, so few care.

When thousands of cattle died in Iowa from heat, studies showed in some pens only 20% of the cattle were black, but they represented 80% of death loss. And I recall some years ago a poster here lost 600+ steers from heat and the blacks had 5 times the death rate. How many of these cases before major media attention happens?

Someone on another site posted this article.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/ar ... 51dbe02d86

Higher temperatures and heat stress alone can reduce cattle production by reducing feed intake, feed efficiency, and causing mortality. The provision of shade and water offers production benefits, especially for Bos taurus cattle.
-----------
Brown-Brandl et al. conducted an assessment of heat tolerance of Angus, MARCIII (crossbreed consisting of Pinzgauer, Red Poll, Hereford, and Angus breeds), Gelbvieh, and Charolais breeds with varying hide color (black, dark red, tan, white, respectively). Black hided cattle had the greatest respiration rates, panting scores, and surface temperatures followed by dark red, then tan, and then white cattle. The development of heat stress increased drinking and standing, decreased eating, lying, and physical activity. Darker cattle made more behavioral adjustments than lighter cattle. These heat tolerance results are driven by cattle with lighter hair coats having lower solar absorption.

 

[TexasBred]

Please advise the readers that all of these massive die offs you refer to happened to feedlot cattle and NOT beef cattle on pasture for which there is really very little study that has been done. It is accepted that black cattle absorb more heat but there are also remedial actions that can be taken to reduce stress and most good cattlemen are aware of these and utilize them. Many many variables go into creation or reduction of heat stress than color only.

 

[True Grit Farms]

At some point, due to the fraud of CAB, and animal welfare issues, something will have to change.

The part of CAB I get a kick out of is the word CERTIFY. I mean, when you certify something, you give complete assurance that it is true. So to certify that a CAB animal is actually angus, but is not, is complete and utter fraud. Excuses can be made, but how would it look if I painted a Mitsubishi tractor green and certified it as John Deere?

IMO They started out with a good product and knew how to market it. And in case it was before your time, Angus was black before black was cool.

Actually, black never has been cool, but hot. Black hides are an undesirable trait because of heat stress, as animal scientists are making more obvious. So black was never a good product. Might as well promote prolapses or bad udders or bad feet or poor gain or whatever. We ignore bad traits when we think they make us money. Of course, it is much easier to see the check at the salebarn than the costs of heat stress, so few care.

When thousands of cattle died in Iowa from heat, studies showed in some pens only 20% of the cattle were black, but they represented 80% of death loss. And I recall some years ago a poster here lost 600+ steers from heat and the blacks had 5 times the death rate. How many of these cases before major media attention happens?

Someone on another site posted this article.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/ar ... 51dbe02d86

Higher temperatures and heat stress alone can reduce cattle production by reducing feed intake, feed efficiency, and causing mortality. The provision of shade and water offers production benefits, especially for Bos taurus cattle.
-----------
Brown-Brandl et al. conducted an assessment of heat tolerance of Angus, MARCIII (crossbreed consisting of Pinzgauer, Red Poll, Hereford, and Angus breeds), Gelbvieh, and Charolais breeds with varying hide color (black, dark red, tan, white, respectively). Black hided cattle had the greatest respiration rates, panting scores, and surface temperatures followed by dark red, then tan, and then white cattle. The development of heat stress increased drinking and standing, decreased eating, lying, and physical activity. Darker cattle made more behavioral adjustments than lighter cattle. These heat tolerance results are driven by cattle with lighter hair coats having lower solar absorption.

It just goes to show you that science studies can rig the numbers to match the results that they want to achieve. I'm willing to bet more black cows froze to death than all other colored cows in last year blizzards. Florida is now full of black cows now and when I was growing up there was few to no black cows in south Florida. Why are polar bears white, Africans black, Norwegians very light skinned? And everyone knows that grey - white cattle with humps are easy to handle.
You need to have cattle that were raised and are accustomed to your environment. To me that's the most important thing and means a lot more than breed. Back before cattle and the land was managed for cattle breed played a major part. Now all cattle are managed or the rancher is out business.

 

[Margonme]

At some point, due to the fraud of CAB, and animal welfare issues, something will have to change.

The part of CAB I get a kick out of is the word CERTIFY. I mean, when you certify something, you give complete assurance that it is true. So to certify that a CAB animal is actually angus, but is not, is complete and utter fraud. Excuses can be made, but how would it look if I painted a Mitsubishi tractor green and certified it as John Deere?

IMO They started out with a good product and knew how to market it. And in case it was before your time, Angus was black before black was cool.

Actually, black never has been cool, but hot. Black hides are an undesirable trait because of heat stress, as animal scientists are making more obvious. So black was never a good product. Might as well promote prolapses or bad udders or bad feet or poor gain or whatever. We ignore bad traits when we think they make us money. Of course, it is much easier to see the check at the salebarn than the costs of heat stress, so few care.

When thousands of cattle died in Iowa from heat, studies showed in some pens only 20% of the cattle were black, but they represented 80% of death loss. And I recall some years ago a poster here lost 600+ steers from heat and the blacks had 5 times the death rate. How many of these cases before major media attention happens?

Someone on another site posted this article.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/ar ... 51dbe02d86

Higher temperatures and heat stress alone can reduce cattle production by reducing feed intake, feed efficiency, and causing mortality. The provision of shade and water offers production benefits, especially for Bos taurus cattle.
-----------
Brown-Brandl et al. conducted an assessment of heat tolerance of Angus, MARCIII (crossbreed consisting of Pinzgauer, Red Poll, Hereford, and Angus breeds), Gelbvieh, and Charolais breeds with varying hide color (black, dark red, tan, white, respectively). Black hided cattle had the greatest respiration rates, panting scores, and surface temperatures followed by dark red, then tan, and then white cattle. The development of heat stress increased drinking and standing, decreased eating, lying, and physical activity. Darker cattle made more behavioral adjustments than lighter cattle. These heat tolerance results are driven by cattle with lighter hair coats having lower solar absorption.

Yet, evolution has provided one of the most abundant endemic bovines on the planet with black pelage and dark pigment - The Cape Buffalo which survive well on the equatorial savannas of Africa.

True Grit: Polar bears are white because they are endemic to a totally white habitat. That one is rather easy. If black was that effective on temperature regulation, you might think they would be black.

 

[True Grit Farms]

What's a cape buffaloes African name?

 

[Margonme]

What's a cape buffaloes African name?

Syncerus caffer

True Grit: Polar bears are white because they are endemic to a totally white habitat. If black was that effective a factor for temperature regulation, you might think they would be black.

Sorry. Inyati

 

[True Grit Farms]

What's a cape buffaloes African name?

Syncerus caffer

True Grit: Polar bears are white because they are endemic to a totally white habitat. That one is rather easy. If black was that effective on temperature regulation, you might think they would be black.

I'm not a big believer in your polar bear color thing. A polar bear doesn't need camouflage, their so big they can't seek up on anything and sure don't have to hide from anything.
Where did Inyati come from then?

 

[Margonme]

What's a cape buffaloes African name?

Syncerus caffer

True Grit: Polar bears are white because they are endemic to a totally white habitat. That one is rather easy. If black was that effective on temperature regulation, you might think they would be black.

I'm not a big believer in your polar bear color thing. A polar bear doesn't need camouflage, their so big they can't seek up on anything and sure don't have to hide from anything.
Where did Inyati come from then?

Inyati is the Ndebele name for cape buffalo. Mashona use the same name often written nyati.

 

[Margonme]

True Grit stated:

I'm not a big believer in your polar bear color thing. A polar bear doesn't need camouflage, their so big they can't seek up on anything and sure don't have to hide from anything.

You are forgetting that polar bears are heavily preyed upon by Sasquatch.

 

[Ebenezer]

If polar bears are white for camouflage then bears in the Blue Ridge should be RealTree pattern?

 

[Margonme]

If polar bears are white for camouflage then bears in the Blue Ridge should be RealTree pattern?

You got a point!!!

 

[Margonme]

What's a cape buffaloes African name?

Inyati

True Grit, you may remember. There was a user on CT with Inyati as a user name. Smartest azzhole on the forum. Shame he got banned. I see him now and then, always got a different woman with him. I am.pretty sure he is headed for one of those hot never never lands.

 

[True Grit Farms]

What's a cape buffaloes African name?

Inyati

True Grit, you may remember. There was a user on CT with Inyati as a user name. Smartest azzhole on the forum. Shame he got banned. I see him now and then, always got a different woman with him. I am.pretty sure he is headed for one of those hot never never lands.

He was a real womanizer for sure. He didn't care if they where heifers or cows, they all got massages before and after insemination. His only problem is he's jealous and had to get rid of his bull, some folks just can't be satisfied by watching. I'll give him one thing, he sure loved his cattle.