Master cattlemen

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Jeanne-Simme Valley, no one took offense at your last sentence that you reprinted, that wasnt the part that was a personal attack. The offensive part was that you said no one who calves year round could have a health program. No one who calves year round has any idea if their cows breed back on time. No one who calves year round can process their calves. Yours was a personal attack against people who have circumstances that make year round calving the best management procedure for them. Had you respectfully asked people how they accomplished their goals by year round calving, I am sure you would have gotten some very enlightening responses. They wouldnt have changed the way you do things, but they would have given you insight to how they do things. I calve year round, it works very well for me. I lost a pile of money 10 years ago when I backed up the freshening date and had a group of 60 freshen at the same time. We had an incredible ice storm in early spring and I lost 20 calves in 5 days being born on that ice----never again will I risk an entire calf crop like that. I have given my thoughts on the year round calving in various posts.

You are absolutely right. I did approach it incorrectly. I was just trying to type what my mind pictured as total choas (sp?) to me, with my calendar of "things to do". I am a very organized type person (well, don't ask my husband that) and I would go nuts trying to do my handy dandy records.
Again, I will say, obviously you make money "doing it your way".

 

[Bama]

I also calve yearround. The girls are proven. I don't mess with holding their hands. They calve out in the fields. They spit one out ever 12 months. If they can't they're gone. Working them aint no big deal. Get em up ever three months and do what needs to be done. If I have any heifers I put them up in a heifer calving area. Its only about 2 acres and close enough I can watch them. If I happen to find a bull calf at a very early age I will band it in the field. Come working time if you cant figure out which calf belongs to who grab it and then read the eartag on the momma blowing snot on the back of your neck. I keep records on each one. I know exactly how much I have in ever one of them. If I was in a much colder climate I would have to change my practices a little. Cows have been having calves long before we helped them. I reckon they still know how to do it today. If by some odd chance one is having a problem I will notice it. The best tool for helping cows at calving time culling the troublemakers beforehand. The second best tool is a good spotting scope. If something don't look right a spotting scope can be used to tell from a distance. Watch the herd they will tell you if something is wrong by their actions.

 

[Ryder]

I also calve yearround. The girls are proven. I don't mess with holding their hands. They calve out in the fields. They spit one out ever 12 months. If they can't they're gone. Working them aint no big deal. Get em up ever three months and do what needs to be done. If I have any heifers I put them up in a heifer calving area. Its only about 2 acres and close enough I can watch them. If I happen to find a bull calf at a very early age I will band it in the field. Come working time if you cant figure out which calf belongs to who grab it and then read the eartag on the momma blowing snot on the back of your neck. I keep records on each one. I know exactly how much I have in ever one of them. If I was in a much colder climate I would have to change my practices a little. Cows have been having calves long before we helped them. I reckon they still know how to do it today. If by some odd chance one is having a problem I will notice it. The best tool for helping cows at calving time culling the troublemakers beforehand. The second best tool is a good spotting scope. If something don't look right a spotting scope can be used to tell from a distance. Watch the herd they will tell you if something is wrong by their actions.

Seems simple and sensible to me.

 

[Craig-TX]

We run bulls year round. Our health program is pretty simple in that we don't get into a tizzy when a calf hits the ground. We don't even know it until we count which is once or twice a week at best. We vaccinate the calves when we catch them which is when it's convenient. Our cattle are nothing fancy. On purpose. Just pretty decent commercial stock, in all colors. None of them ever get hungry or thirsty or short on salt and mineral. And yes they do pay so our health program is working fine for us. Always has.

 

[Ryder]

We run bulls year round. Our health program is pretty simple in that we don't get into a tizzy when a calf hits the ground. We don't even know it until we count which is once or twice a week at best. We vaccinate the calves when we catch them which is when it's convenient. Our cattle are nothing fancy. On purpose. Just pretty decent commercial stock, in all colors. None of them ever get hungry or thirsty or short on salt and mineral. And yes they do pay so our health program is working fine for us. Always has.

Ditto for here. If it aint broke...

 

[houstoncutter]

Angus Guy
What I meant by Cattlemen in the north not calving with mulitiple seasons, was a comment for commercial cattlemen. I think if you ran purebreds ,that you would have to have mulitiple seasons to be able to sell to a market that might want bulls for the different seasons....... For you fellas that run year round breeding season, have you noticed after several years that most of your calfs hit the ground in April or May. Years ago we ran the bulls year round, and after about 5 years they all seemed to hit the ground at the same time..... Maybe Mother Nature is trying to tell us something.

 

[aplusmnt]

Seems to me there is a difference in something working and making money. Compared to working best and making more money.

It is a pretty widely accepted that shortening your calving season will help to maximize your profits.

1. When you sell your calves they bring higher prices in more uniform sizes,

2. vaccination, castration, identification, worming, and weaning, are accomplished with less labor. Preg testing and culling are easier.

3. Nutrition is easier when cows are at the same stage of production dry cows need less protein than nursing cows.

--Time is money, maximize your time and maximize your profits. [/i]

 

[Caustic Burno]

Angus Guy
What I meant by Cattlemen in the north not calving with mulitiple seasons, was a comment for commercial cattlemen. I think if you ran purebreds ,that you would have to have mulitiple seasons to be able to sell to a market that might want bulls for the different seasons....... For you fellas that run year round breeding season, have you noticed after several years that most of your calfs hit the ground in April or May. Years ago we ran the bulls year round, and after about 5 years they all seemed to hit the ground at the same time..... Maybe Mother Nature is trying to tell us something.

No on the calves in the spring actually its about equal every month. Bull hasn't worked out planned parenthood yet.

 

[houstoncutter]

Caustic......lol :lol2: :lol2: :lol2: thats good, I like it

 

[Beef11]

As far as Out west goes, I haven't ever seen a decently ran beef program that calves year round. I have seen multiple calving seasons that were well managed. It seems that year round calving is a result of negligence and laziness on all the outfits i have seen. To lazy to pull the bulls to cheap to preg check. They have much higher calf mortality rates than the seasonally born animals. Most of the people who calve year round AROUND HERE are in the process of going broke. It is real hard to manage a few hundred cows that are calving 12 months on summer ground in this part of the country.

 

[Beef11]

Seems to me there is a difference in something working and making money. Compared to working best and making more money.

It is a pretty widely accepted that shortening your calving season will help to maximize your profits.

1. When you sell your calves they bring higher prices in more uniform sizes,

2. vaccination, castration, identification, worming, and weaning, are accomplished with less labor. Preg testing and culling are easier.

3. Nutrition is easier when cows are at the same stage of production dry cows need less protein than nursing cows.

--Time is money, maximize your time and maximize your profits. [/i]

Very well put.

 

[preston39]

Ap....Beef...,

You are absolutely correct.

Five years ago we started a plan for a two 60 day calfing program in our commercial herd. March April and september october.We did that by planning with the replacements. We lost very little in reconfiguring. We are 95% there.

Our analysis told us that we gained at least 10% on our production sale by having more uniform calves at 600#. We don't sell at the sale barn. Our commercial production is sold directly to a feeder. The ease of processing the animals 2 x annually is nice....and less expensive in materials...time,etc. The only negative we have observed is when there is a drought...bad grazing season....we are hit uniformally whatever the impact is. But, we are convinced the end results are far better.

It's a management choice...and acceptance of change....for good reason.

 

[Caustic Burno]

Reading this Master cattleman and the one about pond water it is easy to see most of ya'll are hobby farmers. Thats great if you have a pile of money to throw away on cattle. I don't raise cattle in an office buiding or a back yard or clear my fences with a weed whacker. There are a lot of different operating enviroments on this board being closed minded to one season only makes you stupid.
I might not be as bright as you master cattlemen but my year around calving has paid for everthing and I don't owe one dime to no one, simply amazing. Blind hog found an acorn I guess.

 

[cypressfarms]

Reading this Master cattleman and the one about pond water it is easy to see most of ya'll are hobby farmers. Thats great if you have a pile of money to throw away on cattle. I don't raise cattle in an office buiding or a back yard or clear my fences with a weed whacker. There are a lot of different operating enviroments on this board being closed minded to one season only makes you stupid.
I might not be as bright as you master cattlemen but my year around calving has paid for everthing and I don't owe one dime to no one, simply amazing. Blind hog found an acorn I guess.

Caustic,

I think that this year yound calving has gotten under your skin somewhat, I can see why. I'm going to the MC class to learn, because if I can't learn something every day, what's the use of being here? I'm a hobby farmer myself, but I don't have a pile of money to throw away either. I was up at 5:00 this morning started up my 1968 Ford 4000 to bring 4 round bales out to the cows.

You are right in that being closed minded to anything, IMO, makes one not real bright.

Blind hog, I don't think so; those of us who know cattle, realize that you are a very capable cattleman. I, personally, think that you would make a good guest speaker at our Master Cattleman class.

 

[Caustic Burno]

Reading this Master cattleman and the one about pond water it is easy to see most of ya'll are hobby farmers. Thats great if you have a pile of money to throw away on cattle. I don't raise cattle in an office buiding or a back yard or clear my fences with a weed whacker. There are a lot of different operating enviroments on this board being closed minded to one season only makes you stupid.
I might not be as bright as you master cattlemen but my year around calving has paid for everthing and I don't owe one dime to no one, simply amazing. Blind hog found an acorn I guess.

Caustic,

I think that this year yound calving has gotten under your skin somewhat, I can see why. I'm going to the MC class to learn, because if I can't learn something every day, what's the use of being here? I'm a hobby farmer myself, but I don't have a pile of money to throw away either. I was up at 5:00 this morning started up my 1968 Ford 4000 to bring 4 round bales out to the cows.

You are right in that being closed minded to anything, IMO, makes one not real bright.

Blind hog, I don't think so; those of us who know cattle, realize that you are a very capable cattleman. I, personally, think that you would make a good guest speaker at our Master Cattleman class.

No not really just my fault just can't argue with ignorant people.

 

[novaman]

I'm not sure how many of your are strictly ranchers. The main reason I have a calving season is that fact that I farm along with ranching and running a dairy. I have to get my cows calved out by May so that I can do my field work. I think there are advantages to both methods. If you have good management practice I see no reason why year-round calving wouldn't work, especially if your strictly ranching.

 

[norriscathy]

As usual Caustic is right! If it works for him then that's what he needs to do. It took me a lot of years and an awful lot of money to realize that these seminars you're going to are nothing but a waste of time and money. You can lean a lot more on these boards by listening to Caustic and the other full timers.

Right now there is a "senior guru" writing in all the major publications and teaching world wide conferences promoting a "new breed" of cattle and his way of doing things. I was interested and thought his "new breed" might be just the thing on my Gelbvieh. Started calling him and checking things out. He has had his "new breed' in this country for all of two years; doesn't have a single bull for sale (everything AI) and doesn't own the first cow! Stopped throwing you money away on snake oil salesmen and college professors that have no idea how to raise a cow!

 

[cypressfarms]

Right now there is a "senior guru" writing in all the major publications and teaching world wide conferences promoting a "new breed" of cattle and his way of doing things. I was interested and thought his "new breed" might be just the thing on my Gelbvieh. Started calling him and checking things out. He has had his "new breed' in this country for all of two years; doesn't have a single bull for sale (everything AI) and doesn't own the first cow! Stopped throwing you money away on snake oil salesmen and college professors that have no idea how to raise a cow!

Tuli???

 

[norriscathy]

Cypress, are you insane? You want Caustic to address your class? I'd pay good money to watch that!!!!!!!!!!

 

[aplusmnt]

Reading this Master cattleman and the one about pond water it is easy to see most of ya'll are hobby farmers. Thats great if you have a pile of money to throw away on cattle. I don't raise cattle in an office buiding or a back yard or clear my fences with a weed whacker. There are a lot of different operating enviroments on this board being closed minded to one season only makes you stupid.
I might not be as bright as you master cattlemen but my year around calving has paid for everthing and I don't owe one dime to no one, simply amazing. Blind hog found an acorn I guess.

Actually the hobby farms are probably the ones that would be affected least by year round calving season. Seems being stupid is being closed minded to new ideas on how to increase your profits and cut down on labor. There is lots of vaccinations, vets, drugs, Haying techniques, equipment, research that you implement daily into your operation that were discovered and developed by people in offices.

I have a friend that is in the same cleaning business as me, I have told him for years he needs to get a Propane buffer and quit using the out dated electric corded ones. He replies the electric ones work for him, and it has! He has taken care of his family, furnished them with a house, food and the necessities. But with using the newer technology and way of thinking I make ten times the money he does in the same hours worked.

Just because you get by doing year round calving, does not mean that all the research and common sense that goes into the obvious benefits of narrowing your calving season to one or two shorter seasons is wrong!