Contact Kaye Kaufman for your Wagyu bull needs. [email protected] 860-716-3626 [email protected]
Looking for a good Wagyu bull
- Thread starter NonTypicalCPA
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SIMMGAL
Well-known member
Here's the one I'm trying in my herd this Spring:
https://www.stgen.com/sire-directory/be ... eef-cattle
https://www.stgen.com/sire-directory/be ... eef-cattle
Bestoutwest
Well-known member
SIMMGAL":2y0q28zw said:
That's about the best one I've every seen. The OP should try some AI'ing with that bull first, do a few head, see how it goes before jumping off. If it were me, I'd use this bull.
Son of Butch
Well-known member
The Red Wagyu are much beefier and better looking than the drowned rat appearance of the blacks.
But when you open them up they don't have the marbling quality of the blacks....especially the black Tajima bloodline.
I have had 3 calves sired by the red wagyu sire Umemaru.... (all 3 spooky high headed runners)
The traditional Japanese breeders divide the black bloodlines in to 4 groups, A, B, C, D and cross them in that order.
Group A are the best milking (none of the blacks produce all that much milk) and cross them with Group B or D
Group B are 100% Tajima the highest marbling bloodline, but they are also the smallest and slowest growing
Group C are the largest framed, fastest growing, lowest marbling and used on B and or AB to put frame and growth
back into them
Group D is the 2nd best marbling most often a high % Tajima
and repeat
Traditionally A is not crossed with the C bloodline and B is not a traditional cross with D
I've used Holstein, Simmental, Angus and some crossbreds as my group A starting base.
(Definitely not a Japanese tradition, but it's what I had)
On non-wagyu cows I would recommend a group B or D sire as the first cross to start.
From what I've seen of the 4 groups I would rate most all of the Red Wagyu sires as most like the group C sires
While the reds are definitely the most appealing on the hoof, I would not recommend starting the 1st cross with them.
But when you open them up they don't have the marbling quality of the blacks....especially the black Tajima bloodline.
I have had 3 calves sired by the red wagyu sire Umemaru.... (all 3 spooky high headed runners)
The traditional Japanese breeders divide the black bloodlines in to 4 groups, A, B, C, D and cross them in that order.
Group A are the best milking (none of the blacks produce all that much milk) and cross them with Group B or D
Group B are 100% Tajima the highest marbling bloodline, but they are also the smallest and slowest growing
Group C are the largest framed, fastest growing, lowest marbling and used on B and or AB to put frame and growth
back into them
Group D is the 2nd best marbling most often a high % Tajima
and repeat
Traditionally A is not crossed with the C bloodline and B is not a traditional cross with D
I've used Holstein, Simmental, Angus and some crossbreds as my group A starting base.
(Definitely not a Japanese tradition, but it's what I had)
On non-wagyu cows I would recommend a group B or D sire as the first cross to start.
From what I've seen of the 4 groups I would rate most all of the Red Wagyu sires as most like the group C sires
While the reds are definitely the most appealing on the hoof, I would not recommend starting the 1st cross with them.
NonTypicalCPA
Well-known member
Thanks SOB. That's what we're looking for, the Tajima line.
NonTypicalCPA
Well-known member
I too have heard the reds look better but the blacks marble better.
Son of Butch
Well-known member
Bestoutwest":1bp0c3pk said:
IF you noticed in the blurb.... used to increase muscling, volume and milking ability (to other Wagyu cattle)
They don't mention marbling, and marbling is the #1 reason for non-wagyu breeders to use a Wagyu bull for
crossbreeding in the 1st place.
Son of Butch
Well-known member
Who is Kaye Kaufman? And 860 is a Connecticut telephone area code. Where are you located?LLBUX":28p7p3yg said:
Who wants to go to New York City to pick up a bull?
Ebenezer
Well-known member
Are Wagyu or Wagyu influenced heifers and cows scarce or hard to deal with? Seems it would be a more economical option to have lighter weight cows and a heavier type terminal bull like Wulf has been doing.
http://www.beefmagazine.com/cattle-genetics/beef-meets-dairy-benefit-both
Wulf has proven that a decent cow herd does not need to be based on high growth plus terminal type genetics and selection to make decent feedlot cattle. Just select the bulls for the feeders' needs. Hybrid vigor pays off, too.
http://www.beefmagazine.com/cattle-genetics/beef-meets-dairy-benefit-both
Wulf has proven that a decent cow herd does not need to be based on high growth plus terminal type genetics and selection to make decent feedlot cattle. Just select the bulls for the feeders' needs. Hybrid vigor pays off, too.
Son of Butch
Well-known member
Jersey produce high quality beef, but lack yield and feedlot efficiency x Limo = improved terminal for jerseys.
I'm not far enough into it, but I've found Wagyu knocks the snot out of milk production.
My best maternal wagyu influenced beef cow is a Wagyu x Holstein, but that type of cow would have a heck of
a time surviving range-land conditions. I doubt the maternal ability of a wagyu influenced cow herd as the way to go
for any traditional rancher.
The most profitable large scale way to produce Wagyu influenced beef might well be A.I.ing holstein cows to Wagyu
and sending them to the feedlot in the way Wulfs are doing the Jersey x Limos.
I'm not far enough into it, but I've found Wagyu knocks the snot out of milk production.
My best maternal wagyu influenced beef cow is a Wagyu x Holstein, but that type of cow would have a heck of
a time surviving range-land conditions. I doubt the maternal ability of a wagyu influenced cow herd as the way to go
for any traditional rancher.
The most profitable large scale way to produce Wagyu influenced beef might well be A.I.ing holstein cows to Wagyu
and sending them to the feedlot in the way Wulfs are doing the Jersey x Limos.
NonTypicalCPA
Well-known member
What do you think of this guy? He's the sire of the young bull I'm looking at.
NonTypicalCPA
Well-known member
And here is the young bull.
Son of Butch
Well-known member
I would classify him as an example of a group B Tajima bloodline, strong in the front end and narrow in the back.NonTypicalCPA":3vtbll5w said:What do you think of this guy?
He's the sire of the young bull I'm looking at.
You can pm me his pedigree or sire and maternal grand sire names if you wish, maybe I can tell you more or maybe
I can't.
Fire Sweep Ranch
Well-known member
Are the feet that bad on Wagyu???
Son of Butch
Well-known member
No...
NonTypicalCPA
Well-known member
I was wondering on the feet of the young bull. Seems pretty long in the toe and flat footed. Any concerns? Normal?
Son of Butch
Well-known member
IF I were selling him, I would've had a good hoof trimmer clean up his front feet and quick once over on the rear before showing him to you. Rear feet shallow heel, but strong pasterns. I don't like that his front feet toe out a bit.
Price would influence the degree of faults I'd be willing to accept. He's in that gangley awkward 'teenage' phase.
Even so, he doesn't have the phenotype to be high priced. Wagyu are notorious for small, but functional testicles.
Semen test before writing a check.
Feet and legs have the low heritabilty of .17 (source holstein assoc of usa)
His foot appears tight (not spread toe) but a bit too long, which could be from soft ground and often from manure pack
or soft bedding. Rear feet more important for mobility than front, but the one picture shows his front toes are too
long. He is functional, but not the type to cover a large herd or a lot of ground.
Light rear muscling and high marbling seem to go hand in hand, it's unfortunate, but that's what Wagyu are.
p.s.
From what you've said before, he'll be fine for your purpose and you should have no big concerns.
Price would influence the degree of faults I'd be willing to accept. He's in that gangley awkward 'teenage' phase.
Even so, he doesn't have the phenotype to be high priced. Wagyu are notorious for small, but functional testicles.
Semen test before writing a check.
Feet and legs have the low heritabilty of .17 (source holstein assoc of usa)
His foot appears tight (not spread toe) but a bit too long, which could be from soft ground and often from manure pack
or soft bedding. Rear feet more important for mobility than front, but the one picture shows his front toes are too
long. He is functional, but not the type to cover a large herd or a lot of ground.
Light rear muscling and high marbling seem to go hand in hand, it's unfortunate, but that's what Wagyu are.
p.s.
From what you've said before, he'll be fine for your purpose and you should have no big concerns.
Jake
Well-known member
Good friend of mine is the herdsman for this outfit. They maybe able to help as well
https://www.gvwagyu.com/
https://www.gvwagyu.com/
