Travlr
Well-known member
I'm soooo tempted to say, "Which isn't very much."
Longhorn cross
- Thread starter Dave
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50/50Farms
Well-known member
You can say whatever ya want, my feelings won't be hurt. I'm not nearly emotionally invested enough in this particular underwater intramural basket-weaving chess forum to give much of a hoot.
Lee VanRoss
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Your lack of emotional investment can be verified by your 15 comments on the subject.
50/50Farms
Well-known member
I was discussing the topic at hand, that doesn't require emotional investment. Getting offended would. Your attempts at outwitting people often fall short, try throwing a little higher.
Ky hills
Well-known member
For most any cattle person this is our life, and we have a passion for it, if we didn't we wouldn't be in the business long as there is little to no incentive to do this.
I've always believed that each different breed has at least some useful trait.
Breed promotion to be expected. Angus breeders should promote their breeds strong points and other breeds the same.
CAB came about in a time if the perfect storm. The frame race was catching on and eventually hit a brick wall and Angus were able to capitalize on that as the extreme frame trend that every breed chased, had affect on every aspect from cow calf to carcass yield and quality.
CAB jumped the shark and changed everything, as people figured out how to use it to their advantage.
By now many great herds of cattle have been replaced with black hided cattle often if lesser quality. Currently, due to newer trends if AI and using name recognized cattle the gene pool is shrinking, and quality is being compromised because cattle breeders are taking someone else's word for what is good quality and loosing the ability to select for themselves.
Of course some of us are going to be passionate about trying to promote other breeds and what they bring to the table.
Of course we are going to be critical of why there is a dock on similar or better quality cattle of other hide colors.
There's a lot more at stake than just the argument about hide color,
I've always believed that each different breed has at least some useful trait.
Breed promotion to be expected. Angus breeders should promote their breeds strong points and other breeds the same.
CAB came about in a time if the perfect storm. The frame race was catching on and eventually hit a brick wall and Angus were able to capitalize on that as the extreme frame trend that every breed chased, had affect on every aspect from cow calf to carcass yield and quality.
CAB jumped the shark and changed everything, as people figured out how to use it to their advantage.
By now many great herds of cattle have been replaced with black hided cattle often if lesser quality. Currently, due to newer trends if AI and using name recognized cattle the gene pool is shrinking, and quality is being compromised because cattle breeders are taking someone else's word for what is good quality and loosing the ability to select for themselves.
Of course some of us are going to be passionate about trying to promote other breeds and what they bring to the table.
Of course we are going to be critical of why there is a dock on similar or better quality cattle of other hide colors.
There's a lot more at stake than just the argument about hide color,
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Travlr
Well-known member
Well said...
Little Joe
Well-known member
Why did I know when I seen the title of this thread that it would go on forever?
50/50Farms
Well-known member
Because:
1. It's always a hotly contested topic
2. A lot of people can't accept it when other people like things they don't like
3. Everyone is usually pretty sure that their opinion, their way, and their conditions are the best and there could and should be no others
Dave
Well-known member
I have an advantage of getting to sit and watch the head buyer for a large agri business firm at the sale. I know who he is and who he works for. I see what he buys and what he doesn't. I know he spends time in the corporate office and at their feed lots. While he certainly does buy a lot of black cattle if you watch he will be sitting on his hands when some black cattle of the same size and sex come through the ring. Some times it takes a while to see why he is passing on these. There are other breeds which he simply doesn't bid on. Although there is probably individuals of those breeds that will do well on the average they under preform. He will pay just as much for solid red calves, char cross calves and red Hereford cross calves as he does for black calves. He doesn't buy straight Herefords, Shorthorns, Longhorns or their crosses, Correnite crosses, or dairy cross calves. A company that has several hundred thousand calves on feed certainly know what preforms for them and what doesn't.
What percent of black calves make CAB? It certainly isn't 100%. Last month the cut out price on choice beef was reported at $253.74 cwt. CAB cut out price was $269.13. That is a $15.39 cwt difference. Based on a 800 pound carcass that is a increase in value of $123.12. If only 25% of black calves that is only $30.78 average increase in the entire lot of black calves. Is that enough to give all the people heartburn over CAB?
What percent of black calves make CAB? It certainly isn't 100%. Last month the cut out price on choice beef was reported at $253.74 cwt. CAB cut out price was $269.13. That is a $15.39 cwt difference. Based on a 800 pound carcass that is a increase in value of $123.12. If only 25% of black calves that is only $30.78 average increase in the entire lot of black calves. Is that enough to give all the people heartburn over CAB?
50/50Farms
Well-known member
That is nice and all, but there definitely places in this country where if it ain't black, it better only be one of two or three other things or your butt is gonna be cussing the whole drive back.
Little Joe
Well-known member
Here's my experience with longhorn/corriente type cattle, take it for what it is, I'm not advocating for or against them just telling what my own personal experience has been. Right now I do not own any of that type of cattle, but I would again if the right deal was there.
September 2019 I purchased 5 of these type of cattle all bred to BWF bull for $1900. Fed 15 bales of hay to them that winter at $25/bale, had 5 live calves in spring. Bought a half interest in a ultra black bull for $475 through the sale barn (partnered with a neighbor), he kept him Sept.-May I kept him rest of time. Sold a black baldy heifer out of one of them at weaning for $450 finished the other 4 calves out to butcher. The next spring one of the cows died after a calf got a shoulder hung up and we lost her and the calf, had 3 calves and one didn't due to she was late calving the first time so bull was gone by the time she cycled, ground that cow last fall. Lost another of the cows to what I believe was Johnie's so that left me with 2 live cows that I sold last December for $950. Sold the Johnie's cows dink calf at the sale barn for right under $1/lb, I think it weighed around 300 because it didn't get much milk and I didn't invest any time or money in it. I just butchered the last of the longhorn x steers so I ended up butchering 6 total plus the one cow. Sold the half interest of bull to neighbor for $475.
So I invested $1900 and I netted $6525 after grain and butcher fees by selling the 7 that were butchered and the 2 mamas I sold.and the dink Johnie's calf. $6525- $1000 for 2 years worth of hay (40 bales total)= $5525-$1900=$3625 total and that's with 2 cows dying.
September 2019 I purchased 5 of these type of cattle all bred to BWF bull for $1900. Fed 15 bales of hay to them that winter at $25/bale, had 5 live calves in spring. Bought a half interest in a ultra black bull for $475 through the sale barn (partnered with a neighbor), he kept him Sept.-May I kept him rest of time. Sold a black baldy heifer out of one of them at weaning for $450 finished the other 4 calves out to butcher. The next spring one of the cows died after a calf got a shoulder hung up and we lost her and the calf, had 3 calves and one didn't due to she was late calving the first time so bull was gone by the time she cycled, ground that cow last fall. Lost another of the cows to what I believe was Johnie's so that left me with 2 live cows that I sold last December for $950. Sold the Johnie's cows dink calf at the sale barn for right under $1/lb, I think it weighed around 300 because it didn't get much milk and I didn't invest any time or money in it. I just butchered the last of the longhorn x steers so I ended up butchering 6 total plus the one cow. Sold the half interest of bull to neighbor for $475.
So I invested $1900 and I netted $6525 after grain and butcher fees by selling the 7 that were butchered and the 2 mamas I sold.and the dink Johnie's calf. $6525- $1000 for 2 years worth of hay (40 bales total)= $5525-$1900=$3625 total and that's with 2 cows dying.
Bob Kinford
Well-known member
On the average a cow will eat roughly 3% of their body weight. 1600 cow X .03 will consume 48 pounds of forage a day. an 800 pound cow X .03 will consume 24 pounds of feed a day. Reboot herd instinct in your herd so that they eat only the top third of the plant (which contains the most nutrients) and consumption will actually drop.
Ky hills
Well-known member
Here, black and black white face calves with some frame sell best. Charolais x black calves will sell maybe a nickel under.
Good solid red or red necked calves around 10 cents under maybe more depending if it's a down trend in the market or not.
Pure looking Hereford, and white Charolais, etc 20-30 cents behind
If there is a large group of mixed calves they will sell not as far behind but numbers have to be there
Good solid red or red necked calves around 10 cents under maybe more depending if it's a down trend in the market or not.
Pure looking Hereford, and white Charolais, etc 20-30 cents behind
If there is a large group of mixed calves they will sell not as far behind but numbers have to be there
Dave
Well-known member
They can eat 3% of the body weight in dry matter. Not they will do that. And there is certainly no 1,600 pound cows on my place or even in my neighborhood. My 1,100-1,200 pound cows got roughly 26 pounds of hay a day last winter. There is no grass here in the winter. And those old sisters came through the winter is good shape and raised their calves just fine.
Travlr
Well-known member
When I first began with cattle we fed small squares that weighed 70/80 ponds, and we fed a bale for every three cows. The cows probably averaged about 1200 and they didn't gain weight, or lose it either, so your figures work.
In South Dakota we had bigger cows because they did better in the cold. Forty below with high winds, and the big cows made better wind blocks for their calves. I have no idea how much we fed by weight because the round bales varied so much.
50/50Farms
Well-known member
A lot of people will hate to hear it, but with a small to mid sized herd square bales are vastly more efficient.
That all good and well if your plan is to go into the same business as he is.
You will never be able to out bid him or buy better then him , because your pockets aren't as deep.
As I have said before I could care less what type of cattle make the next guy the most money. My interest is in the cattle I raise making a profit for me.
over the last 40 plus years I have watched one of the biggest ranchers in my area. He didn't start out very big ,but over the years he has been able to successfully increase the number of cattle he raises and the number of acres he owns.
how has he succeeded when many others have failed or sold out.
It is the exact opposite of what you suggest.
When everyone else is buying he is selling. When everyone else is selling he is buying.
When cattle prices were extremely high he sold over 50 percent of his herd. When prices crashed he rebuilt his herd with higher quality cattle than when he reduced his herd size , at a fraction of the cost .
He went from an average size herd to one of the largest and continues to grow not just short term success but success for the long haul.
simme
Old Dumb Guy
"Efficient" in what regard? Ease of handling? Ease of storing? Amount of waste? Cost per pound? What size square bales you talking about? 3x4x8? 4x4x8? Or little ones?
I have over 240 of those calves right now. Have been making money from the mistakes others have made for 40 years. There are none of the breeds I mentioned earlier here though….. for the same reasons I mentioned earlier.
A long time back we bred our heifers to Longhorn bulls for calving ease. Loved those calves until the scale door opened, there is a reason the old timers quit them when cattle didn't have to walk to market. And no, I don't think a herd of Longhorn cows would make more profit that even mediocre British or Continental or Brahman cattle depending on the area. Not unless you were contracted for big dollars to supply roping cattle on a constant basis. Even then I would question the business model.
Bingo!
