In proving my herd

[OwnedByTheCow]

The farm I work at breeds beef cows, mostly pinsagouer (I think that how its spelled) Hereford crosses but we recently introduced an Angus heifer to the herd to be crossed with our bull. This year our cow trough an excellent bull, he is the best on in the herd but really want to improve the herd a lot more than it is now. We are also looking into getting our name out to people but I can barely think of ways to do that.

 

[John Baker]

If you are really interested in improving your herd, pick one known breed and stick with it!
NO CROSSBREEDING as there are few buyers who want what you are producing.
And that will also get your name out there as being know as the guy who has quality cattle instead of the guy who breeds all those Heinz 57 cattle.
John

 

[Nesikep]

I think it depends on your goals.. if your goal is to raise beef, you are perfectly fine with crossbred cattle. If you want to sell breeding stock, then it takes a LOT of reading and looking at cows to know what desireable traits are and how to spot quality animals beyond their size, and then it takes selecting bulls that will complement the traits of your cows, as well as improve on where they may have shortcomings.... And once you're there, you'll need to be purebred in order to be able to market them.

 

[OwnedByTheCow]

Okay, he really likes the pinzagaure I can talk to him about that. My goal is to get all the cows registered so that I can move on from there. We have a bull, he was born in the fall, the owner thinks he is amazing and he is really pretty I am going to talk to him about registering the bull and starting with that slowly work the herd together.

 

[M.Magis]

I'm not sure I understand what your end goal is, seedstock, feeders? If the cows are crosses, how will they be registered, and why? Crossbred cattle make people a lot of money, I think the only reason a person should stay away from crosses is if the goal is producing seedstock.

 

[backhoeboogie]

Okay, he really likes the pinzagaure I can talk to him about that. My goal is to get all the cows registered so that I can move on from there. We have a bull, he was born in the fall, the owner thinks he is amazing and he is really pretty I am going to talk to him about registering the bull and starting with that slowly work the herd together.

What is his goal? Maybe he does not wanty to roll the dice. What's the demand for that breed in your market area, pure bred?

Are you going to be willing to steer 90 percent of the bulls and take market prices? What's the market there for Pinz steers, cull heifers and how does it compare to other breeds?

I agree with nesikep. Pure bred tend to have many more problems than crosses. For me its all about fertility, mortality, and the market for beef.

 

[OwnedByTheCow]

That makes a lot of sense I will look further into the breed.

 

[branguscowgirl]

FYI- The OP is "showing in 4H." Which I think means that she is in Grade School.
How old are you Olivia?

(Just so we can direct age appropriate advise to you. )

 

[John Baker]

Boy, I'm the odd man out on this one.

When you look at the big picture of the cattle industry on the top end, it is to produce USDA prime beef, which gives you the best return on your investment. ( makes you the most money )
And that is the goal of everyone else within the supply chain. ( buyers )

If that is not your goal as a producer (seller ) then you can expect and will receive less for your product as it is known not to be able to produce a highest return on the investment.

In my area, colored /unrecognizable breeds and/or cross breeds bring about 20% less then clearly recognizable breeds.
The theory is simple. When you buy a pig in a poke, you will always pay less for the pig then if you had seen it.

As for trying to start a new breed by cross breeding, you are talking big bucks and many many years, if you ever succeed in producing a marketable product at all.
And if you do, you may have breed out some desirable traits, such as disease resistance, while breeding in the color, or other trait, you want.

IMO, the best you will ever achieve by cross breeding is to produce some sort of exotic looking animal that gives you bragging rights, not money, that only another BBRer ( breeding for bragging rights ) will buy. Or it will be sold for beef at a discounted price.

So is your goal now to make money, or to have bragging rights?
Are you in the cattle business or are you running a zoo? Or both ?

John

 

[OwnedByTheCow]

FYI- The OP is "showing in 4H." Which I think means that she is in Grade School.
How old are you Olivia?

(Just so we can direct age appropriate advise to you. )

I am 13 year old.

 

[OwnedByTheCow]

Boy, I'm the odd man out on this one.

When you look at the big picture of the cattle industry on the top end, it is to produce USDA prime beef, which gives you the best return on your investment. ( makes you the most money )
And that is the goal of everyone else within the supply chain. ( buyers )

If that is not your goal as a producer (seller ) then you can expect and will receive less for your product as it is known not to be able to produce a highest return on the investment.

In my area, colored /unrecognizable breeds and/or cross breeds bring about 20% less then clearly recognizable breeds.
The theory is simple. When you buy a pig in a poke, you will always pay less for the pig then if you had seen it.

As for trying to start a new breed by cross breeding, you are talking big bucks and many many years, if you ever succeed in producing a marketable product at all.
And if you do, you may have breed out some desirable traits, such as disease resistance, while breeding in the color, or other trait, you want.

IMO, the best you will ever achieve by cross breeding is to produce some sort of exotic looking animal that gives you bragging rights, not money, that only another BBRer ( breeding for bragging rights ) will buy. Or it will be sold for beef at a discounted price.

So is your goal now to make money, or to have bragging rights?
Are you in the cattle business or are you running a zoo? Or both ?

John

Right now I am really wanting a herd that has nice conformation and can show well my farm does sell meat from the cattle as well

 

[Taurus]

If you want to improve your herd I would try to not using pinzgauer too much. There is limited market for Pinzgauer and their crosses.

Also I don't think crossbred bulls can be registered depends on what breed association.

 

[John Baker]

OK young lady, here is what I suggest you do reference " right now I am really wanting a herd that has nice conformation and can show well".
#1. buy yourself a quality calf for the conformation, raise him and show him.
#2. If you can't buy one, show what ever you have to show and do the very best job your can with what you have.
Remember: you are not only showing your calf, you are also showing your abilities to train and show cattle.
Just because your calf doesn't win the blue ribbon because of his conformation, doesn't mean you didn't win showmanship.
IMO, if you are the best at showmanship, there are cattleman out there who will come to you to train and show their animals. And it never hurts to ask. So why not ask a neighbor who has quality cattle that you could raise, train and show for him?

Now I'm not trying to chase you away, but here is a board that is all about showing cattle that might be helpful to you.
Good luck and never give up. Where there is a will, there is a way.
John

http://www.steerplanet.com/bb/index.php

 

[branguscowgirl]

You are a smart girl Olivia by learning everything that you can, from many different sources! We never stop learning with our cattle, no matter how long we have been around them. I wish that I had taken things as seriously as you have at 13! You will do well, because you want to learn.
If you can find a good mentor in your area to look at cattle with you, that would be ideal. You can also search different breed characteristics and see what you like about each one. Then talk to people that breed what you like in the area. Most people are pretty happy to talk to you about their cattle.

 

[backhoeboogie]

Boy, I'm the odd man out on this one.

When you look at the big picture of the cattle industry on the top end, it is to produce USDA prime beef, which gives you the best return on your investment. ( makes you the most money )
And that is the goal of everyone else within the supply chain. ( buyers )

If that is not your goal as a producer (seller ) then you can expect and will receive less for your product as it is known not to be able to produce a highest return on the investment.

In my area, colored /unrecognizable breeds and/or cross breeds bring about 20% less then clearly recognizable breeds.
The theory is simple. When you buy a pig in a poke, you will always pay less for the pig then if you had seen it.

As for trying to start a new breed by cross breeding, you are talking big bucks and many many years, if you ever succeed in producing a marketable product at all.
And if you do, you may have breed out some desirable traits, such as disease resistance, while breeding in the color, or other trait, you want.

IMO, the best you will ever achieve by cross breeding is to produce some sort of exotic looking animal that gives you bragging rights, not money, that only another BBRer ( breeding for bragging rights ) will buy. Or it will be sold for beef at a discounted price.

So is your goal now to make money, or to have bragging rights?
Are you in the cattle business or are you running a zoo? Or both ?

John

There is some credibility to your points. My bunch is mostly brangus. I have some pure breds that are bred to pure breds. Have some F1's too. Records are where it is. What cow has produced the most dollars? What breed has longevity in this climate. What does the market demand? Which cow has never lost a calf? Which cow has calved every 10 1/2 months like clock work?

I retain out of the money makers. Nothing to do with bragging or "front pasture" type cows.

Nurse cows by far are the most money makers a commercial person can own. Beef calves on dairy cows makes money. My nurse cows are absolutely nothing to brag on or the front pasture type. Occasionally someone who does have a lot of nickels invested in a calf will want to graft it on to one of my ugly old mongrels. LOL Now that's funny.

 

[John Baker]

Backhoe,
Re:

Nurse cows by far are the most money makers a commercial person can own.

I strongly suspect that is true, if raising baby calves is your thing.

As I see it, if you got a dairy cow that produces 2 qts. Per teat, twice a day, you could feed 4 baby calves on one cow. Or at least 2 calves.
He11, if baby calves were my thing, I would make a bra for the cow with a hole in it so each calf has his own one or two teats.
Picture this:
A cow with a bra with two teats sticking out. You turn one calf in and he nurses his 2 dry and you take him out. You turn the bra around and now the other 2 teats are exposed and you turn the other calf in.
Now you don't have to take the time to milk her and no buckets to wash.
Now all you need to do is get your wife to make the bra.
I suggest she make it out of some of your old coverall legs with a strap to go over her back to tie it on.

Let me know if it works and we will patent that sucker.
John

 

[BMCC]

NO CROSSBREEDING as there are few buyers who want what you are producing.
John

PLANNED CROSSBREEDING = heterosis = extra pounds = $$$$ at the sale barn !

 

[Taurus]

NO CROSSBREEDING as there are few buyers who want what you are producing.
John

PLANNED CROSSBREEDING = heterosis = extra pounds = $$$$ at the sale barn !

Not with Pinzgauer. They seldom bring premium dollars at sale barn.

 

[Lucky_P]

Not with Pinzgauer. They seldom bring premium dollars at sale barn.

Unfortunately, the above is true. Pinzgauer and PZ-cross cattle are good, and the breed brings a lot to the table - but buyers will capitalize on the ability to dock them under the guise - mistaken or knowingly false - that they are Longhorn crosses.
Have used PZ bulls in the past - and would again - if not for knowing we'd get docked for skunk-tailed calves.

 

[OwnedByTheCow]

Okay, what about Herefords.