My brand was approved in SD

[kenny thomas]

Not sure about a lot of profit but sure makes it easier to cull them. When a cow is borderline but worth $1400 to slaughter it makes the decision easier.

 

[Dave]

I don't know. No bred cow/ pair buyers.
The packers have set the tone at almost every bred sale I have seen this year. If they aren't in the top 10-15% of the quality in a sale they're getting their heads cut off.
No one wants average cows.

I have been buying average older bred cows for one bid over the kill. Every one that I can get my hands on. They have been dropping calves daily (4 today). As long as the kill market stays where it is this is going to pay big time. If there are other people not seeing this opportunity they aren't paying attention.

 

[50/50Farms]

That is a great question. For me It would be 40 cows that calved, run the pairs and sell the calves when there big enough.

Then you're already done with the dream, because on 190 acres in SD you aren't going to keep 40 cows that calf unless it's a welfare operation.

 

[Travlr]

I have been buying average older bred cows for one bid over the kill. Every one that I can get my hands on. They have been dropping calves daily (4 today). As long as the kill market stays where it is this is going to pay big time. If there are other people not seeing this opportunity they aren't paying attention.

You don't buy the better kill cows? Why not?

 

[kenny thomas]

When selling hanging weight I can't get the eye for what is the best. I can't figure out the 1.10 per pound cow vs the .90 cow profit difference. I know they dress a different % but I can't get the eye for it.

 

[Son of Butch]

You don't buy the better kill cows? Why not?

My guess is because the better heavy bred cows aren't being sent for kill until after calving.

 

[Travlr]

When selling hanging weight I can't get the eye for what is the best. I can't figure out the 1.10 per pound cow vs the .90 cow profit difference. I know they dress a different % but I can't get the eye for it.

Can you tell the difference between a five year old cow and a ten year old cow? It's really about muscle mass. A ten year old cow that looks like a five year old cow is a better cow than one that looks ten. And that's what the kill buyers are bidding on. If a kill buyer is in at ten cents more than average the cow is meatier.

 

[Son of Butch]

Pretty sure Kenny understands that. I believe what he's saying, trouble taking the lead on pricing when professional kill buyers aren't around setting the price and spread.

 

[Travlr]

Pretty sure Kenny understands that. I believe what he's saying, trouble taking the lead on pricing when professional kill buyers aren't around setting the price and difference.

I rarely wade in until the bidding slows to a crawl. Kill buyers aren't going to worry too much about someone outbidding them. They stick to their formula because that's how they make money.

 

[kenny thomas]

Can you tell the difference between a five year old cow and a ten year old cow? It's really about muscle mass. A ten year old cow that looks like a five year old cow is a better cow than one that looks ten. And that's what the kill buyers are bidding on. If a kill buyer is in at ten cents more than average the cow is meatier.

But if it's 2 10 year old cows it gets harder for me to figure the hanging %. One might hang 50% and another 53%. I can't tell the difference.
1400 X 50% =[email protected] is $1330
1400 X 53%=[email protected] is $1409.80
So $80 difference in value. That's a lot on a load of cows.

 

[Dave]

You don't buy the better kill cows? Why not?

They aren't killing the better cows. Full mouth cows bred 7-8 months are going back to the country for $1,800-1,900. My average is right about $1,200 on cows that average slightly more than 1,200 lb. The kill buyers are getting the opens and bred cows who are 5 months or less bred. Any cows close up that go to kill have some sort of serious issue.

 

[SBMF 2015]

I have been buying average older bred cows for one bid over the kill. Every one that I can get my hands on. They have been dropping calves daily (4 today). As long as the kill market stays where it is this is going to pay big time. If there are other people not seeing this opportunity they aren't paying attention.

If you can buy third stage aged cows for $100 over kill price, get a live calf, and the market holds then you will make more money than you can imagine. However, if any of those three things doesn't happen you will lose your a$$.

Yes there is money to be made. It's a relative though. The cows still cost more, they are worth more when you send them to the rail. And you don't plan on keeping them for cows.
There aren't a lot of guys set up to do what you do on the volume that you do.

 

[Stocker Steve]

But if it's 2 10 year old cows it gets harder for me to figure the hanging %. One might hang 50% and another 53%. I can't tell the difference.
1400 X 50% =[email protected] is $1330
1400 X 53%=[email protected] is $1409.80
So $80 difference in value. That's a lot on a load of cows.

I think most of the 50% yield cows flesh up after some multimin and drench. So isn't the main issue avoiding spent cows who have should have been butchered last year?

 

[TCRanch]

Success? I was talking to a rancher in church today and he sugested I buy heifer calkves instead if steer calves. His point was buy 10 and butcher the smallest next year. then the smallest the next year, get the 8 bred and butcher the 3yd year whatever heiffers didnt take. He said the heifer calves are cheaper anyway and I could breed the heaviest ones in the long run. What about that plan?

Also reguarding irrigation- I dont think it is legal to run a pivot without state approval?

No! Calving out heifers is not how you want to start. They're the equivalent of 14 year old girls. Most of them calve and mother-up with no problems, but you have to be prepared to pull the calf if necessary and get them latched on. And getting them bred in the first place - AI or buy/lease a calving ease bull?

As far as running heifers as stockers, make darn sure there isn't a bull around. You could have them spayed or use MGA in their feed to suppress estrus.

 

[SBMF 2015]

Can you tell the difference between a five year old cow and a ten year old cow? It's really about muscle mass. A ten year old cow that looks like a five year old cow is a better cow than one that looks ten. And that's what the kill buyers are bidding on. If a kill buyer is in at ten cents more than average the cow is meatier.

That is like bare bones basic. The struggle becomes how they'll grade. Just because 2 five yr old cows weigh 1400 doesn't mean they are both the same value. I struggle with butcher bulls. What constitutes a high yielding bull vs avg? Especially if they are similar in weight.

 

[Travlr]

They aren't killing the better cows. Full mouth cows bred 7-8 months are going back to the country for $1,800-1,900. My average is right about $1,200 on cows that average slightly more than 1,200 lb. The kill buyers are getting the opens and bred cows who are 5 months or less bred. Any cows close up that go to kill have some sort of serious issue.

Oh... I guess I misunderstood. I thought you were only bidding on late bred older bm/sm cows that were going for average prices rather than paying a little more for the better bm/sm cows.

 

[faster horses]

No! Calving out heifers is not how you want to start. They're the equivalent of 14 year old girls. Most of them calve and mother-up with no problems, but you have to be prepared to pull the calf if necessary and get them latched on. And getting them bred in the first place - AI or buy/lease a calving ease bull?

As far as running heifers as stockers, make darn sure there isn't a bull around. You could have them spayed or use MGA in their feed to suppress estrus.

I'm glad you answered that, TC Ranch. You beat me to the punch. Great advice!
It would be green on green...green mothers and green owner...what could go wrong?

 

[Travlr]

But if it's 2 10 year old cows it gets harder for me to figure the hanging %. One might hang 50% and another 53%. I can't tell the difference.
1400 X 50% =[email protected] is $1330
1400 X 53%=[email protected] is $1409.80
So $80 difference in value. That's a lot on a load of cows.

Well again, it's about muscle mass. And there's a difference between MM and being overly fat. Even some of the kill buyers seem to have a problem with differentiating between MM and fat,

I look at the tail head first. If it's got a lot of jelly (fat) under the skin and looks like a cow pie under the skin the cow is too fat and the rest of the carcass will likely be hanging at a high percentage but be a lot of trim. The brisket also accumulates fat. If a cow is too skinny it's hard to tell what she could be like with some time and better feed. But a cow in decent flesh, where you can't see prominent ribs or a fatty tail head... it's about the ratio between belly and the muscle overall. A well muscled cow will have some rump going down into the hock. Her shoulders and neck will be muscled and not thin.

If you sit at an auction with this in mind and watch how cows sell eventually you'll see how buyers bid based on body type.

 

[Travlr]

I struggle with butcher bulls. What constitutes a high yielding bull vs avg? Especially if they are similar in weight.

Muscle mass... A masculine bull has a mass of muscle in their neck and large muscles in their rear end. A less masculine bull carries the weight in their gut.