I just got back from visiting my hometown in Southern Illinois.
That is true, and he is getting a lot of Angus and Brangus cows too. Hereford cows are cheaper than Angus, but the Angus bull will cost more than a Hereford bull. One thing he will do, is keep records on the cost of the cows and bulls..see which combo would be the most economical way to produce black baldies. angus will not have the problems associated with Hereford, but the Herefords are a lot more docile to deal with when they have new calves.
Unless your Angus bulls are registered, there is a chance of them being heterazygous black. Same with commercial Angus cows.
They are not, they were what made the numbers work at the time. Now it's my goal to move up to better bulls. Having to put down one of my Angus bulls last March helped move that along. My Black Hereford is not Homozygous black, but he is homopolled. I am thinking of sending my remaining Angus bulls to the sale this fall after I bring them home, and by two Homozygous Black Herefords. If I have only one bull giving me red calves I can live with that. So far it's looking like I may have to travel a ways to get a couple, but that would give me an excuse to go see my son in eastern Kansas. Of course that all depends on where I buy them.
I think the president of the Tennessee BH Association is a member on CT. If so, he might could help locate some close to Wy. I am looking for 2 right now for a client that has registered Red Angus. He figures the black baldy calves will sell better than his red angus.
Sometime next year, give us an update on which breed(s) perform the best - at least initially. But, I agree...those breeds (Angus, Brahma, & Herefords) have had a large impact on the cattle industry - don't know much about corrientes except that my neighbor sold all of his cows and re-stocked with corrientes - probably not a bad idea given the last 2 summers have been rough and those things will eat nearly anything. My grandfather started with polled herefords and went to brahma-hereford crosses. In subsequent years, Dad brought in one beefmaster (that was years ago), possibly a Chiangus if Mom's recollection is correct, black angus, and ultimately brangus...which is what I have now...with a few cows that may have something else in the family tree that I don't know about (but mostly brangus). A motley but vigorous crew. I would be very interested in seeing the results from this guy's experiment.Young guy ( well, 40 something) called me last night and asked if he could buy me breakfast this morning. Said he wanted to pick my brain on some things. He has rodeoed since he was a teenager. Big ole boy, so he only does steer wrestling and team roping. I have sold him several heelers and a rocket of a doggin' horse over the years. Grew up on his grand dad's row crop farm. They have about 450 acres, and raised cotton, beans and corn. They never had cattle or hogs or any livestock except his horses , and his Corriente roping steers. Anyway, his grandad is retiring soon as the cotton is picked, and his dad or uncle don't want anything to do with the farm. So, Grandpa is turning it over to him. He wants to get into the cattle business, and wanted to see what I thought would be the best way for him to go. Wanted to know what I have done all these years and not lose my shirt. I told him the best way I have made money, and made the most money, and never had a loss, was in buying and selling. I said " But, I have been doing this for 60 years, and learn something new every day just about. No way to make more money than buying and selling, and you make your money when you buy them. But you got to do it a lot. Go to several sales a week for years and years. You have to make a lot of contacts." He said what he really wanted to do, was have cows and sell calves off of them. He is going to sell the combines, cotton pickers ( they have 3 of each), the bigger, 8 wheel tractors, the grain drills and planters, etc. They have 2 road tractors and lowboy trailers. He will get enough money to fence the hole place in with any kind of fencing he wants. And, it is all rich bottom land, and clean as a golf course. He said he thought about raising Corrientes. He'd know enough people in the business...stock contractors, rodeo producers, etc...to have a ready made market. I told him "Well, you know how much you pay for ropers, and that's about what the cos will cost you. Or closer to $700 and up these days..now that more and more people are doing what I have been doing...raising the polled, black beef calves off of them." But, I explained to him we were in a unique situation.... land not fit for anything else covered in 26% protein Kudzu, and access to high dollar black bulls. no feed, hay, fertilizer, wormer or vaccs inputs, etc. He then started asking me about all the cattle breeds. The continentals, the British, the Brahma composites, Waygu, etc. Which would be the best for him to get into. That's when this epiphany hit me. I told him when I was growing up, all we had around here was Angus and Hereford..like most places still are. I said in the late 60's Brahma, Simmental and Charolais, turned up, and by 1970 Santa Gertrudis and Chianina showed up. Then came the Brahma composites. Next came other continentals like Limms, Gelbeivs, Salers, etc. Next, people turned all the Continentals into part Angus. They all had their 15 minutes of fame, before the trends cooled off. The latest flavor of the month is the Waygu. Then it dawned on me: Might not be the fastest growing and biggest calves, but you can't hardly go wrong with the black baldies. Consistently, year after year, they will always sell as well as the Angus and Angus type black calves. They will be the highest priced per pound at weaning..even if they aren't the heaviset at weaning. Herf X Angus or Ang x Hereford...don't really matter. And down here, Braford x Angus or Brangus x Herford will do just as well. I don't see how a novice could go wrong doing that way. My epiphany was, after the first 300 years of LH, Corriente type cattle, the 1st three imports...Angus, Hereford and Brahma..have had the most impact on cattle in America than any of the other breeds. Our cattle industry would be just as strong, if the imports had stopped with those 3 breeds.
So, this is what I recommended he do, and I don't think I have steered him wrong, do you? They have already started fencing. As soon as all the crops are in, he is going to sow fescue, perennial rye, and sprig bermuda grass. There is a grant available for turning row crop land into pasture, that will pay for the initial seed and fertilizer. Same grant, or might be another, will pay for cross fencing a place already fenced in. He is going to check to see if UGA will still come out and plant that World Feeder Bermuda and Alfalfa pasture mix for free. Then after the equipment is sold, we gonna start buying cows. He is gonna get 50 Herefords and breed to Angus and Brangus bulls. and get 30 Brafords to breed to Angus bulls. He is going to get 30 Angus and 30 Brangus to breed to Hereford. 20 red Angus to breed to Black Hereford and 20 Black Herefords to breed to red Angus and red Brangus bulls. He will be able to eventually run 250 pairs on the place. After 2 or 3 calving seasons, he is going to see if he needs to narrow down the mixes, after he sees which combo, if any, stands out in performance. I am sure if he stays in it, and gains experience, he will experiment some with other breeds and crosses, but for now ,I think the plan is a safe bet. Oh, and he is going to get up about 50 Corr cows and a Corr bull, so he doesn't have to buy practice steers anymore.
He has about decided to not do all of those various crosses to get the same results., thank God. So far we have bought all red Angus cows, and a few red Brangus. He has bought a homo for polled and black Black Hereford bull, and a homo for black and polled bwf Simm. If and when we run up on great deals on Angus, Brangus, and black or bwf Simms, we will get them too, but if not that wil be ok.
Good Lord Warren, this 'kid' needs Philip Brown's help (my Georgia counterpart) NOW! Cattle are one thing, but there is a right way and a wrong way to set up the other end of it, and that is the PASTURES! ALL that crop ground to convert, pasture layouts to design, water systems to design. Yes, the livestock is what everyone sees, the pastures (like your kudzu pasture) are the unsung heroes here.Young guy ( well, 40 something) called me last night and asked if he could buy me breakfast this morning. Said he wanted to pick my brain on some things. He has rodeoed since he was a teenager. Big ole boy, so he only does steer wrestling and team roping. I have sold him several heelers and a rocket of a doggin' horse over the years. Grew up on his grand dad's row crop farm. They have about 450 acres, and raised cotton, beans and corn. They never had cattle or hogs or any livestock except his horses , and his Corriente roping steers. Anyway, his grandad is retiring soon as the cotton is picked, and his dad or uncle don't want anything to do with the farm. So, Grandpa is turning it over to him. He wants to get into the cattle business, and wanted to see what I thought would be the best way for him to go. Wanted to know what I have done all these years and not lose my shirt. I told him the best way I have made money, and made the most money, and never had a loss, was in buying and selling. I said " But, I have been doing this for 60 years, and learn something new every day just about. No way to make more money than buying and selling, and you make your money when you buy them. But you got to do it a lot. Go to several sales a week for years and years. You have to make a lot of contacts." He said what he really wanted to do, was have cows and sell calves off of them. He is going to sell the combines, cotton pickers ( they have 3 of each), the bigger, 8 wheel tractors, the grain drills and planters, etc. They have 2 road tractors and lowboy trailers. He will get enough money to fence the hole place in with any kind of fencing he wants. And, it is all rich bottom land, and clean as a golf course. He said he thought about raising Corrientes. He'd know enough people in the business...stock contractors, rodeo producers, etc...to have a ready made market. I told him "Well, you know how much you pay for ropers, and that's about what the cos will cost you. Or closer to $700 and up these days..now that more and more people are doing what I have been doing...raising the polled, black beef calves off of them." But, I explained to him we were in a unique situation.... land not fit for anything else covered in 26% protein Kudzu, and access to high dollar black bulls. no feed, hay, fertilizer, wormer or vaccs inputs, etc. He then started asking me about all the cattle breeds. The continentals, the British, the Brahma composites, Waygu, etc. Which would be the best for him to get into. That's when this epiphany hit me. I told him when I was growing up, all we had around here was Angus and Hereford..like most places still are. I said in the late 60's Brahma, Simmental and Charolais, turned up, and by 1970 Santa Gertrudis and Chianina showed up. Then came the Brahma composites. Next came other continentals like Limms, Gelbeivs, Salers, etc. Next, people turned all the Continentals into part Angus. They all had their 15 minutes of fame, before the trends cooled off. The latest flavor of the month is the Waygu. Then it dawned on me: Might not be the fastest growing and biggest calves, but you can't hardly go wrong with the black baldies. Consistently, year after year, they will always sell as well as the Angus and Angus type black calves. They will be the highest priced per pound at weaning..even if they aren't the heaviset at weaning. Herf X Angus or Ang x Hereford...don't really matter. And down here, Braford x Angus or Brangus x Herford will do just as well. I don't see how a novice could go wrong doing that way. My epiphany was, after the first 300 years of LH, Corriente type cattle, the 1st three imports...Angus, Hereford and Brahma..have had the most impact on cattle in America than any of the other breeds. Our cattle industry would be just as strong, if the imports had stopped with those 3 breeds.
So, this is what I recommended he do, and I don't think I have steered him wrong, do you? They have already started fencing. As soon as all the crops are in, he is going to sow fescue, perennial rye, and sprig bermuda grass. There is a grant available for turning row crop land into pasture, that will pay for the initial seed and fertilizer. Same grant, or might be another, will pay for cross fencing a place already fenced in. He is going to check to see if UGA will still come out and plant that World Feeder Bermuda and Alfalfa pasture mix for free. Then after the equipment is sold, we gonna start buying cows. He is gonna get 50 Herefords and breed to Angus and Brangus bulls. and get 30 Brafords to breed to Angus bulls. He is going to get 30 Angus and 30 Brangus to breed to Hereford. 20 red Angus to breed to Black Hereford and 20 Black Herefords to breed to red Angus and red Brangus bulls. He will be able to eventually run 250 pairs on the place. After 2 or 3 calving seasons, he is going to see if he needs to narrow down the mixes, after he sees which combo, if any, stands out in performance. I am sure if he stays in it, and gains experience, he will experiment some with other breeds and crosses, but for now ,I think the plan is a safe bet. Oh, and he is going to get up about 50 Corr cows and a Corr bull, so he doesn't have to buy practice steers anymore.
Yes, the NRCS can pay to convert crop ground to pasture ground. Also consider practice 810, Annual forages for livestock. You can plant either cool season forages (annual) or warm season forages and graze them all the while using them as nurse crops for establishing perennial grasses AND get paid in the process.........for planting the annuals (810), the grazing rotation (528) and planting the perennial grasses (512). Phillip can explain this. (Yes, I know the system. There aren't many people that can figure out how to get the federal government to pay you 3 times in the process of trying to plant a perennial pasture, and I left out getting paid for the fences and watering systems, which is also possible. This is how to set up a grazing operation from scratch without losing your shirt.Young guy ( well, 40 something) called me last night and asked if he could buy me breakfast this morning. Said he wanted to pick my brain on some things. He has rodeoed since he was a teenager. Big ole boy, so he only does steer wrestling and team roping. I have sold him several heelers and a rocket of a doggin' horse over the years. Grew up on his grand dad's row crop farm. They have about 450 acres, and raised cotton, beans and corn. They never had cattle or hogs or any livestock except his horses , and his Corriente roping steers. Anyway, his grandad is retiring soon as the cotton is picked, and his dad or uncle don't want anything to do with the farm. So, Grandpa is turning it over to him. He wants to get into the cattle business, and wanted to see what I thought would be the best way for him to go. Wanted to know what I have done all these years and not lose my shirt. I told him the best way I have made money, and made the most money, and never had a loss, was in buying and selling. I said " But, I have been doing this for 60 years, and learn something new every day just about. No way to make more money than buying and selling, and you make your money when you buy them. But you got to do it a lot. Go to several sales a week for years and years. You have to make a lot of contacts." He said what he really wanted to do, was have cows and sell calves off of them. He is going to sell the combines, cotton pickers ( they have 3 of each), the bigger, 8 wheel tractors, the grain drills and planters, etc. They have 2 road tractors and lowboy trailers. He will get enough money to fence the hole place in with any kind of fencing he wants. And, it is all rich bottom land, and clean as a golf course. He said he thought about raising Corrientes. He'd know enough people in the business...stock contractors, rodeo producers, etc...to have a ready made market. I told him "Well, you know how much you pay for ropers, and that's about what the cos will cost you. Or closer to $700 and up these days..now that more and more people are doing what I have been doing...raising the polled, black beef calves off of them." But, I explained to him we were in a unique situation.... land not fit for anything else covered in 26% protein Kudzu, and access to high dollar black bulls. no feed, hay, fertilizer, wormer or vaccs inputs, etc. He then started asking me about all the cattle breeds. The continentals, the British, the Brahma composites, Waygu, etc. Which would be the best for him to get into. That's when this epiphany hit me. I told him when I was growing up, all we had around here was Angus and Hereford..like most places still are. I said in the late 60's Brahma, Simmental and Charolais, turned up, and by 1970 Santa Gertrudis and Chianina showed up. Then came the Brahma composites. Next came other continentals like Limms, Gelbeivs, Salers, etc. Next, people turned all the Continentals into part Angus. They all had their 15 minutes of fame, before the trends cooled off. The latest flavor of the month is the Waygu. Then it dawned on me: Might not be the fastest growing and biggest calves, but you can't hardly go wrong with the black baldies. Consistently, year after year, they will always sell as well as the Angus and Angus type black calves. They will be the highest priced per pound at weaning..even if they aren't the heaviset at weaning. Herf X Angus or Ang x Hereford...don't really matter. And down here, Braford x Angus or Brangus x Herford will do just as well. I don't see how a novice could go wrong doing that way. My epiphany was, after the first 300 years of LH, Corriente type cattle, the 1st three imports...Angus, Hereford and Brahma..have had the most impact on cattle in America than any of the other breeds. Our cattle industry would be just as strong, if the imports had stopped with those 3 breeds.
So, this is what I recommended he do, and I don't think I have steered him wrong, do you? They have already started fencing. As soon as all the crops are in, he is going to sow fescue, perennial rye, and sprig bermuda grass. There is a grant available for turning row crop land into pasture, that will pay for the initial seed and fertilizer. Same grant, or might be another, will pay for cross fencing a place already fenced in. He is going to check to see if UGA will still come out and plant that World Feeder Bermuda and Alfalfa pasture mix for free. Then after the equipment is sold, we gonna start buying cows. He is gonna get 50 Herefords and breed to Angus and Brangus bulls. and get 30 Brafords to breed to Angus bulls. He is going to get 30 Angus and 30 Brangus to breed to Hereford. 20 red Angus to breed to Black Hereford and 20 Black Herefords to breed to red Angus and red Brangus bulls. He will be able to eventually run 250 pairs on the place. After 2 or 3 calving seasons, he is going to see if he needs to narrow down the mixes, after he sees which combo, if any, stands out in performance. I am sure if he stays in it, and gains experience, he will experiment some with other breeds and crosses, but for now ,I think the plan is a safe bet. Oh, and he is going to get up about 50 Corr cows and a Corr bull, so he doesn't have to buy practice steers anymore.
Believe me, I hear you. It's not that all that conservation stuff isn't a priority by the government and the employees any more (or the agency within the government). There are a few things at play here that end up obscuring the conservation objective. No fault (for some anyway) of their own, but your local DC is now evaluated based on the amount of money they spend (not entirely, but that makes up a minimum of 75% of their evaluation.) Then there is diversification to help a broader cross section of agricultural producers. And the final straw that we don't talk about here (or try not to) is POLITICS. There is a reason I have never been and don't want to be a DC.
I have no way to answer that as I dont have a location map of the farm that shows me the total acres, the soil he has to grow the pastures on (from Web Soil Survey) nor do I know the pasture rotation he wants to use. Give me that information, 24 hours for calculations, and I'll give you an answer.....and the size of the cows."He will be able to eventually run 250 pairs on the place."
I will have to ask him if he has been working with a Philipp Brown. Seems like the seed, fertilizer and cross-fencing money is all federal. I know the World Feeder/ Alfalfa grant is part if UGA's Extension Program. ,.Yes, the NRCS can pay to convert crop ground to pasture ground. Also consider practice 810, Annual forages for livestock. You can plant either cool season forages (annual) or warm season forages and graze them all the while using them as nurse crops for establishing perennial grasses AND get paid in the process.........for planting the annuals (810), the grazing rotation (528) and planting the perennial grasses (512). Phillip can explain this. (Yes, I know the system. There aren't many people that can figure out how to get the federal government to pay you 3 times in the process of trying to plant a perennial pasture, and I left out getting paid for the fences and watering systems, which is also possible. This is how to set up a grazing operation from scratch without losing your shirt.
Fertilizer would not be, but the fence and the seed very well could, and I bet there is a watering system in there somewhere, and maybe an access road.
Yes. 1 cow (or one pair.....doesn't really matter as calves are weaned when sold) per acre is the norm around here, unless you have some poor land. Just have to keep it limed and fertilized according to the specs on your soil test, keep it sprayed for weeds, etc. When it is all finished, nearly 400 acres of the 450 will be pasture...plenty enough for 250 cows."He will be able to eventually run 250 pairs on the place."
