How much gun control is needed?

[houstoncutter]

All this crap over a plastic gun. A M-1 carbine has same rate of fire , shoots 15 or 30 round clips, larger bullet with more knock down power. It's been around since 1943, as a kid in 1965 I bought one from Sears Mail Order. I was 10 years old, I wanted a rifle to match the one my Dad brought back from WW11.

So that means boys and girls we've had a assault rifle for a long time without all these nut job shootings

 

[bbirder]

I know it's not a popular opinion but I think we need more school control. Lock it down like fort Knox. Badge in and out and if you act up or don't belong you are escorted to the gate. I have to keep 2 badges to get into work. I am subject to search at any moment. My belongings car and person. I feel like school should prepare kids for the future. All the way down to how to act on the job . School is their job for 12 to 16 years before they get paid. Not to mention kids are a parents most prized. " possession " . If we lose our kids the wife and I can't have more. We need to take the gun free out of schools with armed personnel be it cops trained teachers ex military etc. Otherwise it's too late to stop the killing. Guns are out there crazy people are in possession of guns . So no law or ban is gonna fix it.

Thank you for your statement JS. I tend to lean in that direction also. The schools are there to educate our kids. Let us not think of education at this time but discipline. Every morning these kids should enter that school knowing that the Principal is in charge. They are there for an education and the the door should be barred behind them from terrorists, gun assailants, salesmen and yes their parents. We did it years ago and it worked well and sprouted many fine citizens and no "I want to be famous" shooters. Any parents object to this rule, Fine, take your child home and home school them.Society has no place for you in the system. The schools need to run just as the future work force runs. The Principal is the boss and what he says goes. And the teachers are the foremen or divisional commanders, whatever.After school these kids will be better prepared to enter the work force or the Military without misunderstanding the chain of command. At the same time with the doors barred no one unauthorized enters. We have become a weak society because of the Press and "WEAK" parents that think their kids can do no wrong. These parents ,and I use the words lightly , are the biggest part of the problem. If they instilled more discipline in the children we would not have the size problem this has become.
Remember this,
Our kids are not bad! NO WORSE THAN WE WERE, but we were disciplined by our parents and the schools and it didn't hurt that many of us.
ps: I wanted to add my 2 cents but the emoticons are not working.

 

[ez14.]

I know it's not a popular opinion but I think we need more school control. Lock it down like fort Knox. Badge in and out and if you act up or don't belong you are escorted to the gate. I have to keep 2 badges to get into work. I am subject to search at any moment. My belongings car and person. I feel like school should prepare kids for the future. All the way down to how to act on the job . School is their job for 12 to 16 years before they get paid. Not to mention kids are a parents most prized. " possession " . If we lose our kids the wife and I can't have more. We need to take the gun free out of schools with armed personnel be it cops trained teachers ex military etc. Otherwise it's too late to stop the killing. Guns are out there crazy people are in possession of guns . So no law or ban is gonna fix it.

Thank you for your statement JS. I tend to lean in that direction also. The schools are there to educate our kids. Let us not think of education at this time but discipline. Every morning these kids should enter that school knowing that the Principal is in charge. They are there for an education and the the door should be barred behind them from terrorists, gun assailants, salesmen and yes their parents. We did it years ago and it worked well and sprouted many fine citizens and no "I want to be famous" shooters. Any parents object to this rule, Fine, take your child home and home school them.Society has no place for you in the system. The schools need to run just as the future work force runs. The Principal is the boss and what he says goes. And the teachers are the foremen or divisional commanders, whatever.After school these kids will be better prepared to enter the work force or the Military without misunderstanding the chain of command. At the same time with the doors barred no one unauthorized enters. We have become a weak society because of the Press and "WEAK" parents that think their kids can do no wrong. These parents ,and I use the words lightly , are the biggest part of the problem. If they instilled more discipline in the children we would not have the size problem this has become.
Remember this,
Our kids are not bad! NO WORSE THAN WE WERE, but we were disciplined by our parents and the schools and it didn't hurt that many of us.
ps: I wanted to add my 2 cents but the emoticons are not working.

:2cents:

Just type this : 2cents: minus the space

 

[TexasBred]

All this crap over a plastic gun. A M-1 carbine has same rate of fire , shoots 15 or 30 round clips, larger bullet with more knock down power. It's been around since 1943, as a kid in 1965 I bought one from Sears Mail Order. I was 10 years old, I wanted a rifle to match the one my Dad brought back from WW11.

So that means boys and girls we've had a assault rifle for a long time without all these nut job shootings

All it takes is for somebody to be first. Terrorism was hardly in anyone's vocabulary until the Munich Olympics 1972 and even then most just thought "Oh well that's Europe"

 

[Caustic Burno]

This really isn't about gun control IMO but control of the masses. The founding fathers included the 2nd amendment armed your a citizen unarmed a subject.
There is a fight for our country and the founding principles. Even in the Civil War both sides believed in the constitution but disagreed on interpretation. Today there is a side that wants to do away with several amendments.

 

[Bright Raven]

This is profoundly surprising. I never expected to see this from such a prominent position.

http://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile.reut ... SKBN1H323E

Excerpt

(Reuters) - A retired U.S. Supreme Court justice on Tuesday called for the repeal of the U.S. Constitution's Second Amendment, which gives Americans the right to keep and bear firearms, and the White House responded by reaffirming its support for the provision.

Former Justice John Paul Stevens, who sat on the country's highest court for 35 years before retiring in 2010, is one of the highest-profile legal figures to join the national debate on school shootings, gun violence and firearms ownership.

 

[sim.-ang.king]

The Constitution doesn't give you rights, it only a firms your already God given rights, and limits the rights of government.
Even though those which worship the false god of government, believe that "without government you would have no rights."

 

[Anonymous]

The Constitution doesn't give you rights, it only a firms your already God given rights, and limits the rights of government.
Even though those which worship the false god of government, believe that "without government you would have no rights."

No one seems to agree with your statement but it's based on facts. I believe that individuals should, according to The Constitution, be able to possess arms equivalent to Military. I'm sure most would GASP at this idea but look at who the Founders just fought a bloody war against. Their previous government. If govt wants to ban certain weapons, govt should't be able to possess them either. Remember the Benjamin Franklin quote about giving up safety for Liberty? I wonder how many bank accounts would be seized by the IRS agents for tax evasion if there were missiles pointed at them? Are you really free to live your life as you wish? Or are you a slave being ruled but living with the false belief that you are free?

 

[Bright Raven]

No one seems to agree with your statement but it's based on facts. I believe that individuals should, according to The Constitution, be able to possess arms equivalent to Military. I'm sure most would GASP at this idea but look at who the Founders just fought a bloody war against. Their previous government. If govt wants to ban certain weapons, govt should't be able to possess them either. Remember the Benjamin Franklin quote about giving up safety for Liberty? I wonder how many bank accounts would be seized by the IRS agents for tax evasion if there were missiles pointed at them? Are you really free to live your life as you wish? Or are you a slave being ruled but living with the false belief that you are free?

There is no such state as "Freedom". If the IRS could not enforce against the person who would evade paying taxes, then no one would pay. If no one paid their taxes, government would totally collapse. It would be replaced by chaos. Is that what you are an advocate for? Chaos?

 

[Anonymous]

No one seems to agree with your statement but it's based on facts. I believe that individuals should, according to The Constitution, be able to possess arms equivalent to Military. I'm sure most would GASP at this idea but look at who the Founders just fought a bloody war against. Their previous government. If govt wants to ban certain weapons, govt should't be able to possess them either. Remember the Benjamin Franklin quote about giving up safety for Liberty? I wonder how many bank accounts would be seized by the IRS agents for tax evasion if there were missiles pointed at them? Are you really free to live your life as you wish? Or are you a slave being ruled but living with the false belief that you are free?

There is no such state as "Freedom". If the IRS could not enforce against the person who would evade paying taxes, then no one would pay. If no one paid their taxes, government would totally collapse. It would be replaced by chaos. Is that what you are an advocate for? Chaos?

Pre 1913, there were no income taxes. Excise taxes yes, but not a 30% to 50% income tax. But there still seemed to be money for schools, roads, military,law enforcement, railroads, hospitals etc etc etc. Govt would not collapse. It would be limited though. No, I do not want chaos, but chaos will come eventually. Look at the current debt and tell me otherwise. When that financial chaos occurs, I sure want to have some guns at my side.

 

[Caustic Burno]

The Constitution doesn't give you rights, it only a firms your already God given rights, and limits the rights of government.
Even though those which worship the false god of government, believe that "without government you would have no rights."

No one seems to agree with your statement but it's based on facts. I believe that individuals should, according to The Constitution, be able to possess arms equivalent to Military. I'm sure most would GASP at this idea but look at who the Founders just fought a bloody war against. Their previous government. If govt wants to ban certain weapons, govt should't be able to possess them either. Remember the Benjamin Franklin quote about giving up safety for Liberty? I wonder how many bank accounts would be seized by the IRS agents for tax evasion if there were missiles pointed at them? Are you really free to live your life as you wish? Or are you a slave being ruled but living with the false belief that you are free?

Fought 8 years the first time 2 the second time to rid the yoke of England.
We lost lot of freedoms in the interpretation of the constitution in 1860. Then again under Woodrow Wilson was a slippery slope we never have gotten off of.

 

[Bright Raven]

Pre 1913, there were no income taxes. Excise taxes yes, but not a 30% to 50% income tax. But there still seemed to be money for schools, roads, military,law enforcement, railroads, hospitals etc etc etc. Govt would not collapse. It would be limited though. No, I do not want chaos, but chaos will come eventually. Look at the current debt and tell me otherwise. When that financial chaos occurs, I sure want to have some guns at my side.

zirlottkim,

The concept is not changed by whether it is an income tax or an excise tax or a sales tax. If you are advocating that the government should not have the authority to collect whatever kind of tax a nation employs, then no one would pay taxes. In the absence of resources, a government would fail - no where in the world does government exist without resources. Thus, chaos or worse would replace government. The survival of the most ruthless would be the law of the land. No life would be worth the value of a baloney sandwich.

 

[Caustic Burno]

Lot of difference in the way taxation is applied where all pay a share like sales or excise tax versus a few paying income.

 

[Anonymous]

Pre 1913, there were no income taxes. Excise taxes yes, but not a 30% to 50% income tax. But there still seemed to be money for schools, roads, military,law enforcement, railroads, hospitals etc etc etc. Govt would not collapse. It would be limited though. No, I do not want chaos, but chaos will come eventually. Look at the current debt and tell me otherwise. When that financial chaos occurs, I sure want to have some guns at my side.

zirlottkim,

The concept is not changed by whether it is an income tax or an excise tax or a sales tax. If you are advocating that the government should not have the authority to collect whatever kind of tax a nation employs, then no one would pay taxes. In the absence of resources, a government would fail - no where in the world does government exist without resources. Thus, chaos or worse would replace government. The survival of the most ruthless would be the law of the land. No life would be worth the value of a baloney sandwich.

The Founders put into the Constitution a means of tax collection. It did not include an income tax. Also included was the right to bear "ARMS". According to The Founders, the reason for protection of that right was to keep govt limited. How can an AR15 keep govt limited with the arsenal and might of today's military?

 

[Bright Raven]

Lot of difference in the way taxation is applied where all pay ac share like sales or excise tax versus a few paying income.

Yes. But Zirlotkim was implying that citizens be armed at the same level as government for the purpose of resisting the enforcement of tax collection. His words were:

I wonder how many bank accounts would be seized by the IRS agents for tax evasion if there were missiles pointed at them?

That implies that an attempt to collect taxes could be thwarted by armed resistance. Obviously, that would end in a collapse of government. As much as government is a PITA, it beats chaos or survival of the most ruthless.

 

[Bright Raven]

The Founders put into the Constitution a means of tax collection. It did not include an income tax. Also included was the right to bear "ARMS". According to The Founders, the reason for protection of that right was to keep govt limited. How can an AR15 keep govt limited with the arsenal and might of today's military?

Without regard to the manner of taxation, government has to have the authority to collect taxes and to be able to do so without a nuclear war with it's citizens. It is a farce to assume that citizens have nuclear capabilities. I don't think that is what was meant by the Founders to limit government.

 

[Caustic Burno]

Lot of difference in the way taxation is applied where all pay ac share like sales or excise tax versus a few paying income.

Yes. But Zirlotkim was implying that citizens be armed at the same level as government for the purpose of resisting the enforcement of tax collection. His words were:

I wonder how many bank accounts would be seized by the IRS agents for tax evasion if there were missiles pointed at them?

That implies that an attempt to collect taxes could be thwarted by armed resistance. Obviously, that would end in a collapse of government. As much as government is a PITA, it beats chaos or survival of the most ruthless.

The citizens of 1776 were armed as well as the worlds greatest military at the time. The fight started before the declaration and the founding fathers put shall not be infringed as the only checkmate against a tyrannical government.

 

[Bright Raven]

The citizens of 1776 were armed as well as the worlds greatest military at the time. The fight started before the declaration and the founding fathers put shall not be infringed as the only checkmate against a tyrannical government.

That is history. But in the modern world of today with nuclear capabilities, is it reasonable to suggest that the private citizens of the USA be as equally armed as our military? I am not sure Zirlotkim means that literally. I guess we need to ask him. He may have meant that rhetorically but it makes for good discussion.

 

[ddd75]

http://thegatewaypundit.com/2018/03/it- ... heir-guns/

 

[TexasBred]

The Constitution doesn't give you rights, it only a firms your already God given rights, and limits the rights of government.
Even though those which worship the false god of government, believe that "without government you would have no rights."

Read it again Sam. Not all rights are God given.