Bob Kinford
Well-known member
No, but I've helped people avoid going broke. And I've had people go broke come to me apologizing for not following my advice.
How do you call the cows
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Ebenezer
Well-known member
Bob, all you are talking about is adequate "bunk space" even without bunks. As far as I can tell, that is it. It is not rocket science just like rolling out hay bales lets all animals have access. A big difference in you and others here is that you are used to people paying you to speak. Sometimes that get to be an issue of attitude. I don't see any validity to your point, to be honest, to tell other folks to not work their cows in ways that work for the majority.
Bob Kinford
Well-known member
That increase was on identical amount of feed, heifers and bulls exposed to. It was a result in the stockmanship combined with they way they were fed (taken to several lines of feed laid out as opposed to calling them to feed and waiting until all of the cattle were there before putting out the feed in a single line.
Big difference between that context and someone hand raising their cattle in five acre pastures.
mwj
Well-known member
Some make a living selling programs and meetings and some make a living selling livestock!
chevytaHOE5674
Well-known member
I dont feed any of my animals grain where it would change their adg. I feed it to them a handful of times a year to get them to do what I want them too. I don't hand raise any of them.
If I had to feed any sort of grain to get good conception rates then those animals would be down the road. If they can't eat grass and produce a calf they have no business here.
If I had to feed any sort of grain to get good conception rates then those animals would be down the road. If they can't eat grass and produce a calf they have no business here.
Bob Kinford
Well-known member
First I probably help more people without getting paid than I get paid for (which upsets the wife) Second it's not talking adequate bunk space as much as reducing competition for feed and anxiety waiting for the feed truck to show up. You talk about what works for the majority. Bud Williams used to always comment on how 95% of the people working cows for a living don't understand how cows work. He proved it over and over by reducing morbidity,mortality, and antibiotic use by 50% by only changing stockmanship techniques. The point is, if you never see it, you don't know it. I still hear people cussing out Bud for not knowing what he was doing. It's hard to accept anything which challenges the knowledge gained by your experience.
Travlr
Well-known member
Haven't we all? Well, I suppose not.
It almost seems like we are speaking two different languages. I can see where calling cattle may not work for some operations on a very large ranch, and it seems like that's what you are talking about. The people here are representative of the demographics in the industry... which means most people here are much smaller operators than the King Ranch. And just like the rest of the demographics, people here are varied in their needs to raise beef at a profit. There are no single points of view that address everyone here.
Bob Kinford
Well-known member
It translates to adg because it adds stress. All of us at least know someone who had a close friend or family member commit suicide, with no one having a clue that person was stressed enough to kill themselves. Pretty arrogant of ourselves to not being able to recognize a person we love is stressed out enough to kill themselves, yet we recognize that our cows don't have any stress on them. We assume that if our cows are acting within our perceived behavior patterns they don't have stress. 99.99% of the time we have never seen what cattle behave like when they aren't under stress.
Bob, again I say, the people who are trying to dis you, probably have not read your website or watched the videos. They don't get it because they don't know what it is. Well, there are few exceptions...the usual trolls who do nothing but argue with and ridicule posts to try to make themselves appear knowledgeable. If you wait a while, and create another name., and get on here bashing Bob KIncaid... shooting down his theories and offering alternatives.... these same people attacking you, would attack the new identity and defend you. There are a LOT of knowledgable cattle men, and women, on here that are receptive to new or different ideas. Might not always agree, but are respectful enough to ask for more info. And there are a few that may come around later, after they have digested and thought about the info. But, there are a few that will never get it. Or even if they do, they are still going to attack you. No need to name names. My grandmother had an old saying. She was a school teacher, and when somebody did something, like say throw a wad of paper at the desk, she'd say " Alright, who did this?" The first one to pipe up "Not me", was 99% the time, the culprit. Her saying was "Throw a rock at the pack, and the hit dog will holler" Bottom line is, quit arguing with those pigeons.
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Travlr
Well-known member
Walking from one pasture, through a gate to another pasture, is stress inducing? Coming into a familiar corral from an adjacent pasture is stress inducing?
And here again, I think we're speaking two languages. I don't equate cattle with suicidal people. I've had my cows park their calves within close proximity to me so I could babysit them while they graze, while I'm reading a book in the shade of a tree, so I do have some understanding of bovine psychology but your analogy is too out there for me.
To tell the truth, at this point I'm wondering about your own mental state as you've now mentioned suicide twice. Want to talk about something? PM me.
Bob Kinford
Well-known member
I'm talking about what stresses cattle and whether or not we recognize it, let alone have any idea of how much money we're throwing away without recognizing it. An Aussie friend of mine commented on how fast a mob settles down with a good chopper pilot and a couple of good blokes on motorcycles. The fact that the cattle are "quiet" doesn't mean they weren't stressed. Thats like saying people in concentration camps aren't stressed because they're compliant because the machine guns and barbed wire has a calming effect on them.
Travlr
Well-known member
So you are saying that herding animals around from the back is less stressful than calling them in and letting them come in on their own?
chevytaHOE5674
Well-known member
So your saying if I "call my cows" to rotate pastures by rattling a bucket or jingling the chain on the gate I am stressing them out and reducing my adg and conception rate?
Jeanne - Simme Valley
Well-known member
Bob, you are trying to convince us of snake oil and foo foo dust.
Just like the Bud Box. Great idea and concept MOST of the time. Until you get that 1 cow that won't willing walk down the alleyway. YOU have no way to MAKE her go down it. Like I said, great concept and it works MOST of the time. Probably works best on crazy cows wanting an escape route.
Just like the Bud Box. Great idea and concept MOST of the time. Until you get that 1 cow that won't willing walk down the alleyway. YOU have no way to MAKE her go down it. Like I said, great concept and it works MOST of the time. Probably works best on crazy cows wanting an escape route.
So, 1.4 lbs on grass alone and 82% bred in 30 days is sub par?
simme
Old Dumb Guy
That is very true - independent of the topic of discussion here.
So Bob, your Resume on one site has you only staying at jobs for about 2 years or less, nothing before 1995. What happened to the first 40 years. I have friends who managed the largest ranches in Canada successfully and profit minded for 25, 35 and 43 years. I myself started with SPA and have with my wife built a profitable operation where 95% have failed. To have a cowboy who has never owned his own operation come on and tell the masses we know nothing about what we are doing is not going to win you friends.
simme
Old Dumb Guy
My son spent 6 months working on a cattle "station" (ranch in our terms) in northern Australia on a working holiday visa. BIG operation. Methods there were very different than in my part of the world. Helicopters and horses and motorized vehicles to muster cattle. 8000 breeding cows and 22,000 head total on 500,000 acres on that station. The owners have a total of 6 stations in the Northern Territory with 165,000 head on 6.7 million acres. They did not call cattle with a bucket there.
People generally figure out methods that work well for them whether they have 7 acres or 7 million acres. They will figure it out. But will hopefully be open to new ideas and be able to correctly evaluate them.
I think that station with 8000 breeders had about 7 station hands that worked with the cattle. In addition, one cook, one boreman, and one grader/operator. So about 10 people total.
heytesburypastoral.com.au
People generally figure out methods that work well for them whether they have 7 acres or 7 million acres. They will figure it out. But will hopefully be open to new ideas and be able to correctly evaluate them.
I think that station with 8000 breeders had about 7 station hands that worked with the cattle. In addition, one cook, one boreman, and one grader/operator. So about 10 people total.
Welcome To Heytesbury Pastoral - Heytesbury Pastoral
Heytesbury Pastoral operates six stations in Western Australia and the Northern Territory, spanning 2.7 million hectares, running 165,000 head of Brahman
heytesburypastoral.com.au
wbvs58
Well-known member
Bob, I have a situation in my scrub block for my dry cows that is probably what you are saying. When things are tough there is always plenty of lower quality feed in there to support them if they forage and go looking for it. I have a small feed lot to supplement them in tough times but am finding it counter productive as after the first time I start feeding them they spend the whole morning each day sitting around waiting for that feed to go in rather than being out there foraging and even when they do they don't go too far away. I have improved the situation by just supplementing protein meals when needed but just given twice a week which from my reading will work the same as daily feeding so they are not looking every day for the handout. Fortunately they do not need supplementing very often. I just have to keep away from the place in my UTV as once they here that they come out of the woodwork looking for the handout.
I can see how this ties in with what you are saying, cows should be left to be cows, just brought in to do what is needed however my situation does not lend itself to your way of doing things.
Ken
I can see how this ties in with what you are saying, cows should be left to be cows, just brought in to do what is needed however my situation does not lend itself to your way of doing things.
Ken
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