Hereford horn growth pattern
- Thread starter Susie David
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CopeMan":3jsxor9p said:
I figure they were cut backs - just a way to keep the horns from growing too long.
Most Herf horns naturally tend to tip up if unweighted. I have more than a few "born on grass" examples. The odd time they will curl down and in on a natural basis - I have only one of those on the place.
Cut backs - when we do this - and it is rare - we use a horse hoof rasp to round off the ends - makes them nice and smooth.
Bez
SF":2kj2wcme said:Here you go. This pic was taken about 3 weeks after the weights were removed.
You know, that sure is a nice mini.
I really like thefact that he produces dollar bills out through the top of his head - a real golden goose of a cow. :lol:
His left horn may drag a bit - there may be a need to re-weight it for a week or so - but I would do nothing for the next three to four months and see if it catches up.
Do not want to get then out of synch and do not want to drag it below the eye line - it should curl just above the nose - never below.
Bez
SF
Well-known member
Thanks.Bez":2qqqdahn said:
:lol: I think he only produced the one. I've searched all over the corrals and the pastures. Can't seem to find any others. He must be implanting them in the heifers. :lol:Bez":2qqqdahn said:
I'll post another pic for you in a couple of months. Can't tell you how much I appreciate your help with this. Thanks a lot.Bez":2qqqdahn said:
OP
OP
Susie David
Well-known member
Thanks Bez....they both are in the fall production team so we're not real concerned about the horns. I never realized that so much work went into the shaping of the horns....always just nipped them or smeared caustic paste on them early on.
Dave Mc
Dave Mc
sidney411
Well-known member
The cow in the left side of the picture is the only cow that has horns remaining on our place. She was an older cow when we got her. Is her horn growth natural or were her horns weighted? The one on HER left side is awefully close to her eye, we cut about an inch off last time we worked them.
bigbull338
Well-known member
sidney horn weights was used on her.an maybe they was lefy on her to long.not really to sure tho.my dad had a few reg horned hereford cows an we had to watch an make sure horns didnt grow into face or eye.you was right by cutting the horn some.thats the only way to control it. scott
bigbull338
Well-known member
dun shaving the horns back a touch just might work.i looked at her horns closer.an from what i see 2in needs to come off up past the curve.an shaving it back after cutting might turn the horns away from the face. scott
sidney411
Well-known member
So am I correct in saying I would take a rasp and file down the OUTSIDE of the horns? How much?
sidney411":3211adt9 said:
FIling the outside will cause them to curve in. The filing has to be done on the side opposite from how you want them to turn.
This linkn address' reshaping horns
http://www.ruralheritage.com/ox_paddock/ox_horn.htm
dun
certherfbeef
Well-known member
sidney411":3b6oupz8 said:
No Sid. If you are talking about the cow in your picture. The side closer to the head. The bottom side. I'd say to take what appears to be the first layer off. But Bez could tell you better.
If talking about a young one then yes, the outside or top. The shorter side grows faster.
certherfbeef
Well-known member
Sorry Dun, typing at the same time I quess.
sidney411":1uomsudu said:The cow in the left side of the picture is the only cow that has horns remaining on our place. She was an older cow when we got her. Is her horn growth natural or were her horns weighted? The one on HER left side is awefully close to her eye, we cut about an inch off last time we worked them.
Sydney - she may be "older" but she is in better shape than that tan anmal behind your high headed black standing in the front of the picture. I do not think she is as old as you might think. If she is, her genetics are good and you better be keeping some of them on the home place.
OK I will give an opinion - we all know what they are worth. 8)
I do not believe this animal has been weighted. Close examination of the horn tips would confirm either way. The holes from the weight picks would either be there - or if they have filled in there would still be a small mark visible to the person who knows what to look for. Other than the tip you trimmed of course.
This cow is quite likely one of those who has horns that naturally turned down and in. If weights had been left on too long they would have possibly been turning in to the side of her head. Below the nose or eye line. Short horn length makes me believe she is naturally the way she is. The left horn especially appears to have too tight a curl to have been trained that way by weights.
Whether I am right or wrong does not really matter. The fact is she is a very short horned critter. She does not have the symmetry to warrant any serious work.
I would say from initial appearance in the photo she is a relatively quiet animal.
I would probably take about 4 - no more than 6 inches off both sides and call it a day. Use a wire saw to do the cutting and then take a rasp to round off the tips. Keep those dammed power tools where they belong - in the shop. Quiet is better and control is better with hand powered equipment. Do not use crimp cutters - they tend to crush around the edges and make for a "splintery" finish.
The horn closest to the eye should be done as soon as possible. Horns move when they are used - if she hits another animal hard, that tip could go in. Especially if for some reason the horn gets broken.
When you cut them back, you may hit the quick, but if you do it will not be a deep bite and she will not resist in a manner that will cause you grief. If you do not hit the quick, it will not bleed. If you do it will.
If it bleeds use a little wound powder to stop it up and prevent any infection. I tend to also spray with a bit of Boron - it is deep blue in colour and will mark her for about 4 months but it does fade away.
You will not have to do any further work with this cow and quite likely she will never grow them back to a length that she will have any problems.
If you are still concerned, then and only then would I rasp off some of the inside of the curve. I personally would not be concerned.
You will be able to see the layers as you file your way down. I never use electric tools for this even though it can be done using a small belt sander or orbital. The heat tends to build up and the noise makes them a bit crazy. Hand work is the best. Mark of a craftsman is one where the work is done quietly, the animal is not turned into a man hater and you do not cause more grief than you had planned.
One or two layers is all that I believe would be required in this instance.
If you intend to rasp down the inside of the curve then do not use a hoof rasp - it is too aggressive. Use a wood file with a less aggressive bite. This will also allow you to see what you are doing - hoof rasps make big gouges and produce lots of chips and shavings. I often finish up with a bastard cut file and some fine sand or emery paper to complete the polish job. Hope that "b" word is allowed by the computer - ask for it at the hardware store or machine shop supply store - it is really a type of metal file.
Darn yet another edit required - ask for a b*a *s (s)*t *a*r *d cut file. It really is the name of the file.
Macon your system is driving me crazy - I am using technically correct terminology and the computer made me waste 30 minutes trying figure a way to write it!!
Be sure to smooth it out good when you are done. Think of it has a hang nail - or a broken finger nail. It is a pain because it always catches on things. Horns should be smooth.
If this animal was on my place I would cut, rasp the tips, doctor as might be required and turn her out.
The horns will come off of this animal easily, should you decide to go drastic - but, if you do not use some lidocaine, do not be surprized if she goes down in shock. It is akin to someone cutting off your hand with no freezing. In my younger day we were rough on some stock - I now am an old fat guy and do not like to set them back any further than is necessary. So I try to do it right.
There will be a large amount of bleeding and there may be as many as three or four "bleeder holes". Not work for someone who has never done it. These holes will not be the very thin holes you see in a calf - I have seen mature animals with holes that looked like you could stick a Bic pen in them.
Heat may not stop the bleeding. In fact it probably will not unless there is a tremendous amount of heat - then you have the chance to do permanent damage to the animal. Remember, the base of the horn can conduct heat to INSIDE the head.
In my opinion there are many ways far, far better than heat to stop a bleeder.
She will be a mess for a few days and not like you very much for an even longer period of time.
I hope this dissertation does not sound too "I know it all." I have made many mistakes and am still learning - when I know all the answers I suspect I will be too old to do the work.
She is a decent looking animal, so if I were you I would let her keep the shortened horns - just balance them up a bit.
Just some thoughts,
Bez
sidney411
Well-known member
Wow - Thanks Bez for the explanation, I was concerned to cut off any more then I did because I didn't want it to start bleeding and not be able to control it. I wouldn't dehorn a full grown animal, that is vet work to me. That hereford is 12 yrs old now (11 in the pic) She was very pregnant in the pic too, but she always stays conditioned well, I actually plan on keeping her current BWF heifer. Next time I work them I will cut more of the horn off for her protection, I would hate to see her damager her eye or face do to the horn. BTW, both tips had been cut off prior to her coming to me so if there were weight marks they would have already been gone.
The tan cow actually had horns that turned up when I got her. She made a trip to the vet before she hit the ground at our place. If I knew then what I know now I would have skipped the vet's offic and dropped her strait at the auction barn. They used the dehornerd that are pnumatic sp? and they couldn't get it to go all the way through - ended up having to use the 5 ft hand jobs and had 2 men on then to get them chopped off. I felt really bad for the cow and I think that is part of the reason she is the way she is now. I will think twice before buying a full grown animal with horns next time.
The tan cow actually had horns that turned up when I got her. She made a trip to the vet before she hit the ground at our place. If I knew then what I know now I would have skipped the vet's offic and dropped her strait at the auction barn. They used the dehornerd that are pnumatic sp? and they couldn't get it to go all the way through - ended up having to use the 5 ft hand jobs and had 2 men on then to get them chopped off. I felt really bad for the cow and I think that is part of the reason she is the way she is now. I will think twice before buying a full grown animal with horns next time.
Sydney - never need to be afraid of horns - train them and they look great - any breed can have trained horns.
As for dehorning a full grown animal - lidocaine makes it so they just stand there and chew their cud while you cut. I usually use a wire saw - fast and does an excellent job.
Lidocaine is so good, I have helped with cutting calves out and watched the cow do nothing more than eat hay while she stands there ande we do the job.
Regards
Bez
As for dehorning a full grown animal - lidocaine makes it so they just stand there and chew their cud while you cut. I usually use a wire saw - fast and does an excellent job.
Lidocaine is so good, I have helped with cutting calves out and watched the cow do nothing more than eat hay while she stands there ande we do the job.
Regards
Bez
certherfbeef
Well-known member
Bez,
I grew up on a dairy. Helped with the dehorning of many a holstein calf. Dad got pretty rough with them. I decided that I wouldn't treat my critters like that.
I even use lidocane when using the barnes dehorner on calves. Little lidocane in each temple and I feel better.
I grew up on a dairy. Helped with the dehorning of many a holstein calf. Dad got pretty rough with them. I decided that I wouldn't treat my critters like that.
I even use lidocane when using the barnes dehorner on calves. Little lidocane in each temple and I feel better.
Cowboymom
Well-known member
This site is really interesting...Found it when I was searching to buy some horn weights. From how much the cost of them has gone up, I think I would paint them orange before I used them if I could get away with it!! Teco used to make the best weights, but they went out of business. Stone is the only act left in town. I found the 3/4 pound ones at Valley Vet for 13.95 a set and Nasco had them for 18.95!! Guess I will have to start perusing ebay!
We have been in the horned Hereford business forever. We horn weight about fifty bulls and thirty heifers a year. Unless whoever buys our cull heifers wants them horned, otherwise we dehorn them. We keep the horns because we are HORNED Herefords, hence they should have horns!LOL
We start horn weighting about a week after we wean. Gives the bull calves a chance to settle down and their horns a chance to harden up. We wait about a month to horn weight the heifers, they seem to have softer, smaller horns.
Horn weighting is an art, alas a fast vanishing one. A lot of people slope horns on their bulls and put paste on their heifers when they are born. We don't like the look of sloped horns. We use 3/4 pounders on the bigger horns and 1/2 pounders on the smaller ones. Different families have different horn growth. When you put the weight on, make sure there is daylight between the weight and the horn or it will cut off the blood supply. Also, make sure that both sides are tight together or the weight will fall off. We leave them on until the horn is just south of center, as has been already said. Time is very variable. We just check when we feed and walk out the ones who need work into a holding pen.
The reason that heifers horns sometimes don't look as good as bulls is that they are usually staying on the ranch and some people don't care as much. The bulls they are trying to sell is where they put their efforts.
That horn cow that was pictured had her weights left on too long. If that were our cow we would use some ob wire and tip the ends. For some reason the ob wire cauterizes the blood vessels and they don't bleed as much. You can look at a horn and see where the blood stops.
That picture with the horns straight down the weights were left on way too long. Somebody probably left the weights on until they were the way they wanted them. Big mistake. Horns keep coming down.
Sometimes if a bull or cow have really long horns we tip about an inch off the ends. It really cleans them up and makes them look more stylish!
Like I said, horn weighting is a dying art. I seem to know about all these things that nobody needs. Horn branding? Still do that too! We ear tag and horn brand besides tattooing!
We have been in the horned Hereford business forever. We horn weight about fifty bulls and thirty heifers a year. Unless whoever buys our cull heifers wants them horned, otherwise we dehorn them. We keep the horns because we are HORNED Herefords, hence they should have horns!LOL
We start horn weighting about a week after we wean. Gives the bull calves a chance to settle down and their horns a chance to harden up. We wait about a month to horn weight the heifers, they seem to have softer, smaller horns.
Horn weighting is an art, alas a fast vanishing one. A lot of people slope horns on their bulls and put paste on their heifers when they are born. We don't like the look of sloped horns. We use 3/4 pounders on the bigger horns and 1/2 pounders on the smaller ones. Different families have different horn growth. When you put the weight on, make sure there is daylight between the weight and the horn or it will cut off the blood supply. Also, make sure that both sides are tight together or the weight will fall off. We leave them on until the horn is just south of center, as has been already said. Time is very variable. We just check when we feed and walk out the ones who need work into a holding pen.
The reason that heifers horns sometimes don't look as good as bulls is that they are usually staying on the ranch and some people don't care as much. The bulls they are trying to sell is where they put their efforts.
That horn cow that was pictured had her weights left on too long. If that were our cow we would use some ob wire and tip the ends. For some reason the ob wire cauterizes the blood vessels and they don't bleed as much. You can look at a horn and see where the blood stops.
That picture with the horns straight down the weights were left on way too long. Somebody probably left the weights on until they were the way they wanted them. Big mistake. Horns keep coming down.
Sometimes if a bull or cow have really long horns we tip about an inch off the ends. It really cleans them up and makes them look more stylish!
Like I said, horn weighting is a dying art. I seem to know about all these things that nobody needs. Horn branding? Still do that too! We ear tag and horn brand besides tattooing!
