Half blood Low Line Cows ?

[Stocker Steve]

Kris Ringwall with NDSU in western ND has been publishing some results on their study. They sold their large cows and then bred some the the remainder Low Line. The goal was to compare the "conventional herd" with the Lowline F1 herd.
Convental cows weaned calves that were 48# heavier, but the lowline F1s weaned 51.9% of their weight while the convential herd weaned 46.2%. Key to me was that the Lowline F1s produced 32.4 vs. 23.6 pounds calf per acre. So why wouldn't commercial herds move in this direction?

 

[KNERSIE]

Easy answer.... the marketability of the resulting calves.

 

[Stocker Steve]

Easy answer.... the marketability of the resulting calves.

Why would you not be able to market 1/4 blood low line calves that weaned at 537# rather than at 585# ?
Acutually, if my Kit math is correct - - it would be marketing four calves at 537# vs. three calves at 585#.

 

[KNERSIE]

The feedlots want framier leaner calves than what the Lowline crosses will be. If you can pencil out the dock vs the extra weight of the extra calf to sell I agree you'd have a much easier keeping cowherd. Actually there are many of us doing it already, whether its in a straight breeding or crossbreeding system.

 

[dun]

Here, small frame vs medium/large is a 25 buck dock per 100 on 655 pounds.

 

[Stocker Steve]

Here, small frame vs medium/large is a 25 buck dock per 100 on 655 pounds.

So IF a 1/4 blood low line is small frame, (I think a terminal bull should deal with frame, not the cow.)
and IF your market will dock this 20% (I realize the feedlot wants to grow um big but my market does not dock much for frame.)
than the Kit math is 80% of (4*537)=1,718# vs. 100% of 3*585=1,755# (a push)

 

[dun]

So IF a 1/4 blood low line is small frame, (I think a terminal bull should deal with frame, not the cow.)

It doesn;t work that way, you rarely get an average between the 2. You might gain a little in frame but not enough to make up for the small frame. Then 2 you run into the issue of the calftypically being larger at birth so the cow has to be able to deliver it unassisted and she must have enough milk to put the potential growth in the calf.

 

[Pitchfork Motors]

Give it another 10 years; it will take at least that long for folks to start viewing profit from 'pounds of beef per calf' to 'pounds of beef per acre'. There is a lot of Lowline research from NDSU, here is a couple links that hit on a couple points that Stocker Steve was referencing.
Do the math: 20 calves @ 580lbs/ea or 25 calves @ 540lbs/ea? I prefer to be selling the 25 calves


http://www.ag.ndsu.edu/news/columns/bee ... rass-ready

http://www.ag.ndsu.edu/news/columns/bee ... cteristics

 

[Lucky_P]

I dunno; I'm not a mathematician. Still not sure I'm buying the pounds of calf/acre vs. pounds of calf/cow deal.
I got on that 'cows are too big' bandwagon for 2-3 years - used a 4-frame bull with less than breed average WW .
No growth in the steers, and some of the resulting cows maxed out at less than 900 lbs mature weight. Took too big a hit on low weaning weights - and substantial price dock for 'em being dumpy little black things - don't think I'll be using a Lowline, or anything with a frame score below 5 again any time soon.

 

[smnherf]

Kris Ringwall with NDSU in western ND has been publishing some results on their study. They sold their large cows and then bred some the the remainder Low Line. The goal was to compare the "conventional herd" with the Lowline F1 herd.
Convental cows weaned calves that were 48# heavier, but the lowline F1s weaned 51.9% of their weight while the convential herd weaned 46.2%. Key to me was that the Lowline F1s produced 32.4 vs. 23.6 pounds calf per acre. So why wouldn't commercial herds move in this direction?

Interesting study and not suprised by the results but the the correct measure would be to use net dollars per acre. That takes into account the inputs and the supposed discount on the small frame calves. The real lesson here isnt' about lowlines though. It should make people think about the merits of moderating your cowherd. Reducing cow input costs can generate more profit than chasing carcass traits.

 

[Aaron]

There is a fine line in breeding moderate/small cattle that have good growth up to a year of age and runts.

I can't see Lowlines offering anything special to a cross other than small frame.

You can source frame 4 and 5 cattle that won't sacrifice young growth, and yet not be mature monsters in any of the British breeds. It just takes a bit of looking.

 

[Old_man_emu]

My experience is that it will take close to twice as long for a lowline calf to meet target weight compared to other breeds. And I am talking purebred not crossbreds but I've found them to be small and slow growing.
Big cows also sell well as culls or restockers. I agree there could be gains on moderating my cows if I can keep growth.

 

[Stocker Steve]

I got on that 'cows are too big' bandwagon for 2-3 years - used a 4-frame bull with less than breed average WW .

Been there also, by breeding wf heifers to a 4 frame BA bull.
They look really short compared to a limi flex.
Hard Cull'in again in June so we will see which replacements are still here.

 

[Jake]

I got on that 'cows are too big' bandwagon for 2-3 years - used a 4-frame bull with less than breed average WW .

Been there also, by breeding wf heifers to a 4 frame BA bull.
They look really short compared to a limi flex.
Hard Cull'in again in June so we will see which replacements are still here.

Took me several years to find a cocktail of genetics that gives me what I want as they aren't quite out there in the exact package I desire, or at least not with the budget I have.

 

[Stocker Steve]

Took me several years to find a cocktail of genetics that gives me what I want as they aren't quite out there in the exact package I desire, or at least not with the budget I have.

We have been mixing some cocktails too, and been at it long enough to see some of our growthy fleshy crosses are not holding up. Middle age and winter roughage having an effect on the cull list.

 

[Rowdy]

I don't know how anyone could comment about the resulting calves without knowing what the sire is. Lowline cross cows could very well be 3-4 frame 1200-1300lb cows. You breed those cows to a framey 7+ Bos indicus influenced composite and the frame issue of the calves should be of no concern.

 

[dun]

I don't know how anyone could comment about the resulting calves without knowing what the sire is. Lowline cross cows could very well be 3-4 frame 1200-1300lb cows. You breed those cows to a framey 7+ Bos indicus influenced composite and the frame issue of the calves should be of no concern.

It doesn;t average the sizes. With that combination you will get 4s and 5s if you're lucky. At the salebarn the dock on the 4 will still be greater then the advantage of the 5s. The 5s will probably get docked too but not as bad. The feeders tend towards large 1&2s but will settle for biggish medium 1&2s.

 

[Jake]

I don't know how anyone could comment about the resulting calves without knowing what the sire is. Lowline cross cows could very well be 3-4 frame 1200-1300lb cows. You breed those cows to a framey 7+ Bos indicus influenced composite and the frame issue of the calves should be of no concern.

Then you have a bos indicus calf that will get docked like hell. In the harsher environments that people would look to even slightly consider a lowline cross cow would be in the northern and western rangelands

 

[Rowdy]

A 3/16ths calf will bring a premium in as many places across the country as they will be discounted. The only logic behind suggesting a brimmer composite was that they're are pretty exclusive in their ability to inject frame/early growth without increased bws. The environment context is irrelevant here. In a lush environment a producer can run 3 thousand pounders whereas you can only run 2 1500lbers. Likewise in a poor environment - their stocking rate 1:5. Yours 1:7.5. People run frame 4-5 angus and Hereford cows all over. There's no reason why a frame 4-5 low line cross won't perform just as good.

 

[Stocker Steve]

It doesn;t average the sizes. With that combination you will get 4s and 5s if you're lucky.

I assume you get more frame size variation with some 4s and 5s ?