Grass-fed Beef Cattle Genetics 101

[KenB]

HD I keep a couple of creep feeders full of good high energy 12%/5% fat fee all the time but they are for small calves only....400 pounders can't even get inside it. Otherwise I never feed during grass season except to pen cattle. Winter time I'll supplement hay with some 40% cubes but only if I feel the cattle are loosing body condition. I did use a couple of feeders of Mix 30 this past year for the first time.

TB, How did you like the Mix 30?
I used it last winter and had good luck with it, I will use it again this winter.

Ken

 

[john250]

I am interested on how many beef operations even feed grain to their cow/calf herds as it would not be profitable at all.
You don't even see the cow calf guy feeding silage anymore, hay is more economical .

My cattle get grass and hay and like Dun does ,they get bribed with grain so they can be locked up to AI.
I have back grounded my calves after weening as they were being sold to grain finished operations. So that is a given ,it allowed then to see before hand how the calves would do on grain and I was payed optimal for them.

With the drought though all bets are off. I have ordered my 14% range pellets and will probably put out cake and lot's of protein tubs this winter. There is no grass to feed them , it will be cheaper to cull hard and supplement them rather than ship hay in at $200.00 a ton. If we were still dairing yes but with beef it will never pay off.

Karin as far as higher nutrition in the last trimester I think it is a double edged sword. But as you stated about feeding during very severe weather like -40 temps the cattle will consume more, so it is just more beneficial for them to be provided with better quality feed during these conditions.

We have lost a couple of really good dairy cows due to fatty liver, from them receiving to high of protein and energy TMR though.

HD, you are way short of hay--right? I don't know how easily corn is available to you, but if you can get it at a decent price you might look at the nutrition in a pound of corn. Especially the calories. At todays prices, it can replace a lot of higher priced hay. Just a thought.

 

[hillsdown]

Thanks John, but corn will cost me more than oats and barley combined..

 

[Angus Cowman]

The short bus crowd always fit me pretty good. Think i will just keep riding it.

Heck RBB as small as the school you went to was I figured they put all 12 grades on the short bus :lol: :lol:

 

[Red Bull Breeder]

They did AC. Sure enough wasn't to many of us,but most of us learned to add and subtract.

 

[Angus Cowman]

They did AC. Sure enough wasn't to many of us,but most of us learned to add and subtract.

I did to i learned this new math the politicians use
1 for you 2 for me, 1 for you 3 for me, 1 for you 4 for my mistress
see we divided everything evenly :banana:

 

[grannysoo]

They did AC. Sure enough wasn't to many of us,but most of us learned to add and subtract.

Same here. We also learned how to be polite and civil to others.

 

[snakegap]

corn/ grain feeding sure would not be economical if it were not heavly subsidized by the goverment

 

[talldog]

corn/ grain feeding sure would not be economical if it were not heavly subsidized by the goverment

Subsidized ! That's a great American word !!!!!!! :tiphat:

 

[options]

corn/ grain feeding sure would not be economical if it were not heavly subsidized by the goverment

I think that most Dairies, feedlots, swine producers, cow calf men and women are now seeing the value they previously got from subsidized grains. I'm guessing most are now hoping it will return.

 

[TexasBred]

corn/ grain feeding sure would not be economical if it were not heavly subsidized by the goverment

Please explain :!: :!:

 

[talldog]

They did AC. Sure enough wasn't to many of us,but most of us learned to add and subtract.

Same here. We also learned how to be polite and civil to others.

I think you'll agree---It was mostly taught at Home and Church !!

 

[grannysoo]

And I think that Elvis / Simms / BigHat has left the building............ :mrgreen:

 

[ga. prime]

And I think that Elvis / Simms / BigHat has left the building............ :mrgreen:

Ed's probably hauling hay to somebody somewhere for free. That's what he does.

 

[edrsimms]

Novatech>> You are making a major issue about grass fed genetics. Those same genetics at the point you stopped could either go to a feed lot or be grass fed in a lush pasture.

At this point it is a matter of the terminal calves developing the proper microbes in the rumen to handle what ever they are being fed.
Now if you plan on grass feeding them you had better not follow that crap about theLow in visceral organ weightbecause they will not have enough rumen to digest it properly.You have entirely missed the train on this subject --keep reading

A calf that is 60% of the cows weight at weaning is a big plus in the cow calf operation. It is breeding for early maturing calves. Again you have missed the train here -- no it is grass fed genetics combined with a quality forage chain --keep reading

The real economics is in what happens next. Does that fast maturing calf slow down on gain per day on the finishing end? You cannot expect grain fed genetics to perform well on grass as you are talking apples and oranges. You must have grassfed genetics to perform well on grass. The finishing end for a grass fed calf requires a good understanding of the forage chain... keep reading
Does the slower maturing calf speed up its gain on the finishing end ? It is the end result at finishing that should be determined.Are you talking about grainfed or grassfed genetics? It matters alot.

What are the total costs from birth to rail? A he77 of a lot less--which is the point of this post. In your attempt to support the grain fed industry and bash the grassfed industry you continue to get what they give you where as the grass fed community takes their product from gate to plate and "we" get more with much less expenseThe point where you stopped is actually where you should have started.

Another thing I would like to bring up. If you have a 1200 lb. cow (Really a grassfed genetics cow) that produces a 600 lb. calf(grassfed genetics calf), this cow being a low to moderate producer of milk, It seems to me that the fast maturing calf You are confused about this term "fast-maturing calf" -- change it to "grassfed genetic calf: raised on forage would also have to eat grass, more grass than the slower maturing calf. (no, you cannot compare cattle you are used to with grassfed genetics, everyone knows a grain-fed genetic calf won't perform well on forage

So in reality one should breed for efficiency in grass conversion.YES and cull those who cannot make it on grass

But unfortunately testing for this can only be done in a feed lot.This is incorrect
Here is a terminal break down.

 

[edrsimms]

You cant produce enough grass fed beef in America to supply the demand-- lets think about that a minute-- good point Grannysoo-- a point I have been trying to make for what a month? And now you have finally GOT IT...............
The only thing holding most of you back from independence of the packers and feeders you seem to love so much is a little knowledge of GRASSes and forage management and utilization, marketing and genetics.
Wouldn't you rather work together, produce a better quality product and make more money? Are you incapable of being independent of others? Everyone on Earth knows that the grassfed producer can't produce enough beef for everyone, so what does this mean in real terms?

Reaching deep into Economics 101 --Supply is LOW--- Demand is HIGH = better prices-- more green in your pocket, As 1 grassfed producer, you dont need 9 billion buyers / you only need a few buyers to make a better living than the feedlot and packer are willing to pay you. Be independent like the traditional rancher (grassfed beef producer) and walk away from the non-traditional bucket.

It's pretty simple. That's the concept that we all would desire, however in the real world, grain does have a place, regardless of it you like it or not.

You can't produce enough grass fed beef in America to supply the demand.

 

[edrsimms]

Thank you talldog

I don't care, personally, what people feed their cattle, that's their buisness!! All I care about is MY SHOOTING MATCH !! I've enhanced my pasture management greatly in part to Ed and have greatly appreciated it ALL----If you don't agree---Thank GOD it's AMERICA and don't listen---keep on KEEPING on---It's fine with me !!! :tiphat:

 

[grannysoo]

Everyone on Earth knows that the grassfed producer can't produce enough beef for everyone, so what does this mean in real terms?

In real terms, it means that the masses eat more chicken and pork. It also means that more beef is imported into the US from other countries.

Once again, the concept of grass fed beef is great, however it would price beef out of the competitive world of food. Looking at some of the prices that are being charged for grass fed beef, you see $8.00 per pound hamburger, $25.00 per pound steak, and the like. If these prices were to become the "norm", then American beef production would come to a standstill, serving only the uber rich that could afford it. Americans are accustomed to buying $1.50 hamburger meat, and $4.00 steaks.

And, amazingly enough, your last couple of posts have been more polite and civil. Don't matter how good your cows are or what you feed them if people don't want to be around you. They just won't listen....

 

[edrsimms]

Thousand lb cows sometimes wean 600 lb calves, but more often they wean 500 lb calves. Are you talking about grainfed genetics or grassfed genetics --- it matters ya know let's not compare apples and oranges here. Many of the so called grassfed genetics result in too small framed calves that end up docked as feeders.More irrelevant info and just plain bad info-- since 100% of the grass fed "guys" are birth to rail And it takes 2 years or more to properly feed them out on grass.here again it depends on your genetics --yes it would take a calf with grain fed genetics 2 years to finish on grass, but only 14 to 16 months for a calf from grassfed genetics to finish on grass, so more comparison of apples and oranges here and I am wondering when your information will be relevant to the topic>? But it all sure sounds good, doesn't it?

The problem with the stockman Grassfarmer religion is that, that is what it is, a religion. Much of what I read there is purely fantasy, or with little or no proof and must be taken on faith. And the people putting the stuff out, are putting on seminars at $500 per head and one must wonder how much of their income comes from grassfed production and how much comes from "educating" the "something from nothing" crowd that never seems to learn. Reminds me of Televangelists.
It is quite evident LOL that you are grossly misled and perhaps the reason you cast off grass fed beef is you don't have the capacity to fully understand forage utilization and management. You don't have to because you are bucket dependent-- and don't get me wrong -- some speakers out there need grainers just like you to attend those seminars

but people desparate for easy money grasp at the straws: Rex Rabbits, emus, ostriches, llamas, alpacas, are all examples from the past, the difference with this grassfed beef thing is that there actually is demand for Grassfed beef, if done properly. First attempt at relevance since you began this post.

I have decided to take a middle stance. To shoot for average. Mike Keeney of Keeney Angus of Kentucky talks about this all of the time with his Shoshone type angus, and he has convinced me. From the middle you can go either direction.

Maybe someone can teach you how to manage your forages --I am all for it, but it takes some greater understanding of grass management than I believe you can muster --- good luck tho

 

[edrsimms]

IluvABbeef wrote:
And the other high nutritional requirement is when she's in her 3rd trimester. Remember? No this is incorrect.

Explanation please.
3rd Trimester --which is month 6 to 9 through post-weaning is their lowest requirement all year

As I learned it, yes the lactation period is THE highest area where nutrition is needed(peak milk production between month 2-3 post-calving), but, the last trimester of gestation is also a developing point because of the point where the calf is needing more energy and protein to grow. (not really)
But of courses there's a fine line between too much nutrition and too little. But, my point is the last trimester is an additional, increased requirement; after that, then she reaches peak nutrition requirement.

The first two trimesters are the lowest nutrient requirements (incorrect, because peak milk falls in this time increment); but, according to a chart I'm looking at in Beef Cattle Science, the CRITICAL period is from 30 days before and 70 days after calving.