Friends new yearling bull what ya think?

[ga. prime]

That's right what EAT BEEF said.

 

[ArmyDoc]

Very simply put if it ain"t red it crossbred. Jovid i think you figures are pretty close to right. Figure a 87% cow and a 92% bull see what you have. When you quit using fullbloods to keep your precentage up only way you can go is down.

Result would be 89.5%. Brings the percentage down from 92% bull down, but it brings it up from the 87% cow.

 

[Red Bull Breeder]

When you keep breeding %87 to %87 it keeps going down over time.

 

[ArmyDoc]

When you keep breeding %87 to %87 it keeps going down over time.

I don't understand. 87% x 87% would yield 87% offspring. Just like 100% x 100% yields 100%, and 50% x 50% yields 50%.

 

[Jovid]

When you keep breeding %87 to %87 it keeps going down over time.

I don't understand. 87% x 87% would yield 87% offspring. Just like 100% x 100% yields 100%, and 50% x 50% yields 50%.

Nope ....87% x 87% = 75.69%

100% x 100% = 100%

 

[Bonsman]

The only math I care about is the numbers on the check!! It is all I can do to count to 21; and I have to take off all my clothing to do that.

 

[dun]

When you keep breeding %87 to %87 it keeps going down over time.

I don't understand. 87% x 87% would yield 87% offspring. Just like 100% x 100% yields 100%, and 50% x 50% yields 50%.

Nope ....87% x 87% = 75.69%

100% x 100% = 100%

You're still multiplying when you should be adding. 87% + (plus, i.e. added to) 87% divided by 2 still comes out to 87%

 

[VanC]

When you keep breeding %87 to %87 it keeps going down over time.

I don't understand. 87% x 87% would yield 87% offspring. Just like 100% x 100% yields 100%, and 50% x 50% yields 50%.

Nope ....87% x 87% = 75.69%

100% x 100% = 100%

As has been said already, you don't multiply the percentages, you ADD them and divide by 2. Let's say you breed a bull that's 87% Angus and 13% Gelbvieh to a cow that's 87% Angus and 13% Gelbvieh. Using your method of 87% x 87%, the offspring is 75.69% Angus. But you also have to multiply the 13% x 13%, which results in a calf that's only 1.69% Gelbvieh. That leaves a total of 77.38%. What happened to the other 22.62%?

To take it a step further, if you keep using your method, after 6 or 7 generations you'll have an animal that has virtually no Angus OR Gelbvieh blood. Without bringing another breed into the mix, I'll go out on a limb and say that's impossible. As Knersie said, your math is right, but your application is wrong.

 

[VanC]

Not to add fuel to the fire, but I think Jovid's point is valid.

Although I don't understand where his math is coming from, I think his point is that after the F1 generation, you dont know what percentage you have.

If you know the breed makeup of both parents, you can always figure out the breed makeup of the offspring, regardless of how many generations you take it down to.

When you cross two baldies, you are most likely to have to have a 50% angus 50% hereford but you could (correct me if i'm wrong), genetically, have anywhere from 100% angus genes to 100% hereford genes. Parentage wise, you have half the genes from the sire and half from the dam but breed wise you really dont know.

Breed makeup and gene dominance aren't the same thing. If you cross two baldies like you said, the breed makeup will always be half Angus and half Hereford. The offspring could be red or black. It could have a white face or not. It could be wild or tame, etc. Just because the genes of one parent dominates over the other doesn't mean the breed makeup has changed. It will still be half Angus and half Hereford. Always.

Look at it this way. All Gelbviehs used to be red. Now you have some that are, say, 99% Gelbvieh and 1% Angus, but are black. Just because the black gene is dominant over the red doesn't mean that that animal has more Angus blood. It's still 99% Gelbvieh.

It looks to me like if you had two animals that you knew for a fact were each 94% gelbvieh then, when mated, their offsring would be a minimun of 88% gelbvieh but would most likely be 94%.

No. If you mate two animals that are 94% Gelbvieh, the offspring will always be 94% Gelbvieh, regardless of what others might say.

 

[Red Bull Breeder]

They are not always nice even numbers and thats when it changes sometimes up sometimes down.

 

[dun]

They are not always nice even numbers and thats when it changes sometimes up sometimes down.

No matter how many times you cross something the math is the same for the percentages. Add the 2 parents togehter and divide each of the results by 2.

 

[Alan]

Ah man, just when I got the popcorn done and ready to enjoy a good bashing of another banned poster getting caught on a reappearance.... I got stuck back in math class .

:lol: Alan

 

[ANAZAZI]

Ah man, just when I got the popcorn done and ready to enjoy a good bashing of another banned poster getting caught on a reappearance.... I got stuck back in math class .

:lol: Alan

:banana: :banana: :banana: :tiphat:

 

[Red Bull Breeder]

Your right the math is the same 87+92=179 179 divided by 2 is 89.5. It takes a while but somer or later you will run the precentage down unless you try not to.

 

[dun]

Your right the math is the same 87+92=179 179 divided by 2 is 89.5. It takes a while but somer or later you will run the precentage down unless you try not to.

No matter how you slice it it won;t go down. Add 90 to 90 and divide by 2. Do that 10k times and the answer is still 90

 

[CattleHand]

Ah man, just when I got the popcorn done and ready to enjoy a good bashing of another banned poster getting caught on a reappearance.... I got stuck back in math class .

:lol: Alan

haha, we usually breed the full cow (thats 100% cow). ive never seen anyone only breed 87% of a cow. BTW what was so wrong with bull? The first 2 pages didnt say to much only you needed thick skin to hear it.

 

[Red Bull Breeder]

If you bred a herford bull to an angus cow the calf would be 50 precent herford 50 precent angus. Each parent contributes half right??

 

[CattleHand]

If you bred a herford bull to an angus cow the calf would be 50 precent herford 50 precent angus. Each parent contributes half right??

yea if my year of biology serves me right thats how it works. which traits get expressed depends on all that hetergenous/homogenous recesive/dominant stuff.

 

[KNERSIE]

If you bred a herford bull to an angus cow the calf would be 50 precent herford 50 precent angus. Each parent contributes half right??

yea if my year of biology serves me right thats how it works. which traits get expressed depends on all that hetergenous/homogenous recesive/dominant stuff.

As well as the cumulative "stuff", breeding cattle isn't as simple as simply dominant/recessive Mendellian inheritance.

 

[Red Bull Breeder]

So each parent contributes 50 percent and we breed the half herford half angus back to a herford we should have a whole herford??