Period, huh? You know for sure?? You've had experience in this arena of breeding? No ear! No sheath! No color disparity! No kiddin'? Amazing deduction! :shock: :roll: But one thing for sure!! :nod: NO HEIFERS! ;-)russoniellov1":j7q1xogi said:Dna test him. he´s a fake. brahman blood. period.
Brandonm2":3jze1d8b said:ollie'":3jze1d8b said:Let me go ahead and get you on the record here brandon, If we have two bulls and one is a 6 frame 1750 lb bull and the other is a 9 frame 3500 lb bull. The 1st bull has a ww of 20 points higher than the second bull with an accuracy on both bulls of .75.... If you put these bulls on hereford cows , in your opinion , which bull would sire the heaviest set of calves.
I don't understand your being upset at my pointing out that the big ox is not proven yet. I am the one that said he would be a terminal sire afterall.
Reguarding your top question, I don't believe it is answerable. Phenotypically, common sense tells me the bigger bull SHOULD have superior performance over the smaller bull; but then 75% accuracy means that both bulls have been used by at least three different herds and according to the data the little bull's calves weigh more at weaning. Genetically, the performance of the progeny is FAR more relevant than the performance of the animal itself. In this example, if I am hunting weaning weight I would be scared of both bulls. I would be suspecting the little bull of falling back to the pack when more data is processed and the big bull would be looking like a dud, though I would suspect he could still jump. If those numbers hold to 85% accuracy, then I am perfectly willing to declare the little bull the growthier bull, even though that is not what I would have guessed back when they were two year olds.
I would say black Holstien, then you dont have the ear to get rid of . There is some solid black Holstien , it would also explain the white on most angus udders now.russoniellov1":3pduf5a1 said:Dna test him. he´s a fake. brahman blood. period.
Frankie":1dy9xwke said:Before any bull can be used AI, the Angus Assn requires he be DNA tested. Is semen available on this bull? Then he's been DNA tested. He's got a pedigree full of big animals, Fly Traveler, MAX, Great Western, Krugerrand. He probably never missed a meal his whole life. The suprise would be if he wasn't a big bull.
MikeC":1uzo4z54 said:Frankie":1uzo4z54 said:Before any bull can be used AI, the Angus Assn requires he be DNA tested. Is semen available on this bull? Then he's been DNA tested. He's got a pedigree full of big animals, Fly Traveler, MAX, Great Western, Krugerrand. He probably never missed a meal his whole life. The suprise would be if he wasn't a big bull.
I know that an AI bull has to have a DNA profile on record before calves can be registered, but is it a DNA "Breed" test, or is it just a profile for future reference in parental testing?
Just wondering?
Frankie":2t324xtd said:MikeC":2t324xtd said:Frankie":2t324xtd said:Before any bull can be used AI, the Angus Assn requires he be DNA tested. Is semen available on this bull? Then he's been DNA tested. He's got a pedigree full of big animals, Fly Traveler, MAX, Great Western, Krugerrand. He probably never missed a meal his whole life. The suprise would be if he wasn't a big bull.
I know that an AI bull has to have a DNA profile on record before calves can be registered, but is it a DNA "Breed" test, or is it just a profile for future reference in parental testing?
Just wondering?
I've never had an animal DNA tested, but I'd assume it would show that his pedigree is accurate.
I am not sure of Angus but some breeds require parent varification before an AI sire permit will be issued. The loop hole in the scenario is that somewhere there was a set of cattle "grandfathered" in to the system. If there is a problem in the deal it is that..and of course cows who never have blood pulled for DNA could certainly be the granddam of any bull. It is silly to think there isn't enough genetic variation within any population containing 300,000 animals to come up with any size animal.MikeC":54ecaqce said:Frankie":54ecaqce said:MikeC":54ecaqce said:Frankie":54ecaqce said:Before any bull can be used AI, the Angus Assn requires he be DNA tested. Is semen available on this bull? Then he's been DNA tested. He's got a pedigree full of big animals, Fly Traveler, MAX, Great Western, Krugerrand. He probably never missed a meal his whole life. The suprise would be if he wasn't a big bull.
I know that an AI bull has to have a DNA profile on record before calves can be registered, but is it a DNA "Breed" test, or is it just a profile for future reference in parental testing?
Just wondering?
I've never had an animal DNA tested, but I'd assume it would show that his pedigree is accurate.
I could be wrong..but I really don't don't think it is for showing "Past" pedigree....only "Future" pedigree. If it was for verifying his "past" pedigree, his dam and sire would be submitted also for proof also.
I am relatively sure the DNA submitted on an AI bull is just a profile for determining parental proof of his calves in case there is a question down the road. It is no proof that he is "Full Blooded Angus, Charolais, or any other breed.
MikeC":3i3qq5m9 said:Frankie":3i3qq5m9 said:MikeC":3i3qq5m9 said:Frankie":3i3qq5m9 said:Before any bull can be used AI, the Angus Assn requires he be DNA tested. Is semen available on this bull? Then he's been DNA tested. He's got a pedigree full of big animals, Fly Traveler, MAX, Great Western, Krugerrand. He probably never missed a meal his whole life. The suprise would be if he wasn't a big bull.
I know that an AI bull has to have a DNA profile on record before calves can be registered, but is it a DNA "Breed" test, or is it just a profile for future reference in parental testing?
Just wondering?
I've never had an animal DNA tested, but I'd assume it would show that his pedigree is accurate.
I could be wrong..but I really don't don't think it is for showing "Past" pedigree....only "Future" pedigree. If it was for verifying his "past" pedigree, his dam and sire would be submitted also for proof also.
I am relatively sure the DNA submitted on an AI bull is just a profile for determining parental proof of his calves in case there is a question down the road. It is no proof that he is "Full Blooded Angus, Charolais, or any other breed.
Frankie":18zs2gsv said:MikeC":18zs2gsv said:Frankie":18zs2gsv said:MikeC":18zs2gsv said:Frankie":18zs2gsv said:Before any bull can be used AI, the Angus Assn requires he be DNA tested. Is semen available on this bull? Then he's been DNA tested. He's got a pedigree full of big animals, Fly Traveler, MAX, Great Western, Krugerrand. He probably never missed a meal his whole life. The suprise would be if he wasn't a big bull.
I know that an AI bull has to have a DNA profile on record before calves can be registered, but is it a DNA "Breed" test, or is it just a profile for future reference in parental testing?
Just wondering?
I've never had an animal DNA tested, but I'd assume it would show that his pedigree is accurate.
I could be wrong..but I really don't don't think it is for showing "Past" pedigree....only "Future" pedigree. If it was for verifying his "past" pedigree, his dam and sire would be submitted also for proof also.
I am relatively sure the DNA submitted on an AI bull is just a profile for determining parental proof of his calves in case there is a question down the road. It is no proof that he is "Full Blooded Angus, Charolais, or any other breed.
I'm sure it's used to identify his calves. But several years ago there was a hot bull that, when DNA tested, turned out to be the son of the clean up bull, not the AI sire shown on his registration certificate. And there's a story floating around about a cow that was bought from and left to be flushed at one of the big operations. When a heifer from the flush was DNA tested to be flushed, they found out that a bull calf in the same pen as the cow had bred her before she was flushed. They traced him down and verified his DNA. So, in those instances at least, it is also used to verify parentage when animals are to be flushed or AIed.
Before any bull can be used AI, the Angus Assn requires he be DNA tested. Is semen available on this bull? Then he's been DNA tested.
norriscathy":1x1lgptz said:With only a +2 BW EPD he looks like a perfect heifer bull to me!
Brandonm2":1zhb52nn said:norriscathy":1zhb52nn said:With only a +2 BW EPD he looks like a perfect heifer bull to me!
I would wait for more data. As big as that bull is, it is LIKELY that his calves will be heavier than that. He could be the ultimate curve bender; but when Doc Harris sees him and tells us "don't use him on heifers his feet are like dinner plates" I am really inclined to believe him.