Extreme temp = sick calves

[TCRanch]

My vaccination program is what my vet recommends - for my operation. Bull calves get Covexin8 when they're castrated, the heifers get Ultrabac 8, the Triangle is at 6 months, cows/bulls/replacement heifers get Vira Shield, all of them get pinkeye, replacement heifers get a MLV 5wayVL5 when they're BANGS/pelvic measured. I have a closed herd; no mixing here. That said, I'm always open for suggestions/improvement and will discuss with my vet.

Do you buy bulls or have a neighbor that vaccinates his cows with a live?

We have been using some sort of MLV on our cow herd for 20 + years. Have had the experience of having cows from a herd using killed vaccine bought in that got awful sick or died from BRD. Have had the same experience with calves.

I do buy registered, fully vaccinated, virgin bulls. The neighbor that share a fence line vaccinates maaaaybe once a year, calves are weaned on the trailer. I lost my first calf to pneumonia earlier this year after treating him for literally 2 months, which is why I'm considering Inforce 3. Otherwise, I have a pretty healthy, fat, happy herd.

 

[True Grit Farms]

I think the drug companies have done a better job selling vaccines to the cattlemen, than the AAA has done selling CAB beef. Growing up we'd work cows twice a year to cut, brand, worm and wean. Some years we'd spray them with a mixture of malathion, diazinon insecticides for lice and flies when it was bad. If a cow didn't bring a calf in she got culled, same as the one's with pink eye or cancer eye. I'm wondering if some the herd health can be attributed to the use of Brahman bulls?
I sure hope CB and Brute don't see this post.

 

[gcreekrch]

I don't understand why you are saying PI or naieve cattle I would think they are at opposite ends of the spectrum assuming you are talking about pestivirus. Naieve cattle exposed to a PI you would not even know they had pestivirus and recover completely only detrimental if they are early pregnant.

Ken

Pi calves can live a long time. Some die when vaccinated with a live, some just become chronics that recover for a time and then get sick again. Pi calves I understand can come from herds using a killed vaccine. What is the use of spending money if it doesn't work?
Naive calves come from those not using any program at all. Our incoming winter projects are vaccinated with Vista Once and Vision 8S and given a Draxxin at the same time. The naive calves might need to be treated with Resflor about the time the Draxxin wears off. Once. The PI's as said. never seem to get well.
This area is getting far better at vaccination programs. At all calf sales here the list of contributers also includes their vaccination programs. Those with nothing or "Blackleg" only take less money for their cattle.

You seem to be rolling every disease on the planet into one but if you are talking about PI's then I assume you are talking pestivirus if you stick to that subject then maybe we can understand what you are trying to say rather throw all other conditions into your argument trying to bamboozle everyone with your knowledge.

Ken

Yes, PI is a BVD calf...... BVD can also cause poor conception, poor performance and many other problems that just cost money. I have never heard it referred to as pestvirus.
BRD, IBR PI3 and Pasturella are all covered by the vaccine we use. As Pasturella has been a problem here we use the Intra nasal at birth as well. We are being told that it is a better vaccine for respiratory disease for young calves than the live is and that it can be boostered when we brand. Our oldest calves are less than 7 weeks when we work them and turn out to summer range.

What protocol is used in Oz or other locations that calve year round? I can understand not using a live if half your cows are pregnant all the time and a live vaccine hasn't been used.

Sorry if you think I'm trying to bamboozle you. Was never my intention. We have traded a lot of cattle over the years and have brought a lot here in the way of diseases with them. A good vaccination program has paid for itself. I have been able to compare results with several neighbors that didn't vaccinate (with a live) for many years. They watched us also and are now using the program.

 

[gcreekrch]

A vaccination program maybe optional if you are a commercial operation selling into a terminal market such as feeder calves.

Until the feedlots find out that a percentage of your calves die when they arrive.

I want the people that buy our calves to let me know they stay healthy during their stay at the lot and that they gain well. We know that happens and that they are capable of over 4.5 lbs per day gains That sells.......

 

[Bright Raven]

Yes, PI is a BVD calf...... BVD can also cause poor conception, poor performance and many other problems that just cost money. I have never heard it referred to as pestvirus.

BRD, IBR PI3 and Pasturella are all covered by the vaccine we use. As Pasturella has been a problem here we use the Intra nasal at birth as well. We are being told that it is a better vaccine for respiratory disease for young calves than the live is and that it can be boostered when we brand. Our oldest calves are less than 7 weeks when we work them and turn out to summer range.

Organisms including man are named in Greek or Latin. Pestivirus is the genus the virus that causes BVD is classified under.

What vaccine are you using that includes BVD, IBR, PI3, BRSV and Pasturella? By the way, i think you mean BRSV instead of BRD. BRD is not a vaccine, it is a category for a whole host of respiratory diseases. The acronym stands for Bovine Respiratory Disease.

I know Zoetis makes a Bovi Shield Gold One Shot that covers:

Infectious Bovine Rhinotracheitis (IBR)
Bovine Viral Diarrhea (BVD) Type 1 & 2
Parainfluenza3 (PI3)
Bovine Respiratory Syncytial Virus (BRSV)
And Mannheimia haemolytica.

Edited to add:

Bovine Respiratory Disease Complex

Respiratory disease is the principal cause of loss of young cattle worldwide. The syndrome arises from a number of factors, including those involving the animal, e.g., age, general condition and immune status; its environment, e.g., changes in food, temperature and humidity that lead to stress; and the presence of infectious agents, e.g., bacteria, viruses and mycoplasmas.

 

[gcreekrch]

https://www.merck-animal-health-usa.com ... -Once-SQ/1

Correct on BRD....... BRSV.

 

[Bright Raven]

https://www.merck-animal-health-usa.com/product/cattle/Vista-Once-SQ/1

Correct on BRD....... BRSV.

That is sweet. I got to look at that closer. Very interesting.

The virus components are MLV. The bacterial components are an avirulent live culture. Most bacterial vaccines are attenuated or killed or toxoid, etc.

 

[wbvs58]

Pi calves can live a long time. Some die when vaccinated with a live, some just become chronics that recover for a time and then get sick again. Pi calves I understand can come from herds using a killed vaccine. What is the use of spending money if it doesn't work?
Naive calves come from those not using any program at all. Our incoming winter projects are vaccinated with Vista Once and Vision 8S and given a Draxxin at the same time. The naive calves might need to be treated with Resflor about the time the Draxxin wears off. Once. The PI's as said. never seem to get well.
This area is getting far better at vaccination programs. At all calf sales here the list of contributers also includes their vaccination programs. Those with nothing or "Blackleg" only take less money for their cattle.

You seem to be rolling every disease on the planet into one but if you are talking about PI's then I assume you are talking pestivirus if you stick to that subject then maybe we can understand what you are trying to say rather throw all other conditions into your argument trying to bamboozle everyone with your knowledge.

Ken

Yes, PI is a BVD calf...... BVD can also cause poor conception, poor performance and many other problems that just cost money. I have never heard it referred to as pestvirus.
BRD, IBR PI3 and Pasturella are all covered by the vaccine we use. As Pasturella has been a problem here we use the Intra nasal at birth as well. We are being told that it is a better vaccine for respiratory disease for young calves than the live is and that it can be boostered when we brand. Our oldest calves are less than 7 weeks when we work them and turn out to summer range.

What protocol is used in Oz or other locations that calve year round? I can understand not using a live if half your cows are pregnant all the time and a live vaccine hasn't been used.

Sorry if you think I'm trying to bamboozle you. Was never my intention. We have traded a lot of cattle over the years and have brought a lot here in the way of diseases with them. A good vaccination program has paid for itself. I have been able to compare results with several neighbors that didn't vaccinate (with a live) for many years. They watched us also and are now using the program.

We have very few live vaccines available for cattle in Australia our authorities are wary of their use mainly I think due to the fact if they decided to conduct an eradication campaign there would be too many false +ves with testing however we get on fine without them. Pestivirus or BVD as you prefer to call it we only have a killed vaccine for which I use on my replacement heifers ensuring they have 2 doses before joining and an annual booster though I would be very much be in the minority. The clostridals and lepto would be the other ones mostly used though I would think maybe <25% would be vaccinated for it.

As True Grit has said the drug companies do have a major push to promote their products and are pushing for people to yard wean prior to weaner sales and to implement their vaccination programmes for a premium price, so far that premium is not obvious.

We certainly don't have the problems with BRD that you have there as mostly our cattle are grazing up until entry to the feedlot where they get IBD and MH vaccines on induction.

BVD may be more widespread here with up to 80% herds showing evidence however it mostly goes undetected with many farmers just accepting a lower calving rate than what would be achievable though in endemic herds there is not that great a loss with only an occaisional heifer not immune before joining and though may produce a PI will be back to normal on next calf. Animals that get Pestivirus show no sickness and quickly recover fully while on the farm, it is only on entry into the feedlot the stress when they get it lowers immunity and makes them susceptible to BRD.

All properties here now are required to have a Biosecurity Plan mainly geared towards Johnes disease however this awareness I am sure will have an impact on these other diseases as if you are on a jbas level of 7 you will not be trading with a property with a jbas level of 6. I think a lot will happen without the use of vaccines, poor drug companies.

Ken

 

[gcreekrch]

Experience here has shown we would far rather vaccinate than treat.

Also, no matter how it is put, this business is more of a discriminations and deductions rather than premiums when marketing.

Several different vets have told us the killed vaccines will not prevent a PI calf from occurring. When a cow gets BVD she keeps it forever like luggage.

If you folks Down Unda ever do get on a program like many of us are following here we will have to be that much more competitive with you for the added production you will have.

BTW, your young folks are damn fine workers we have had several pass through our operation. Benefitted both sides and they are all still fine friends.

 

[Bright Raven]

Experience here has shown we would far rather vaccinate than treat.

Several different vets have told us the killed vaccines will not prevent a PI calf from occurring. When a cow gets BVD she keeps it forever like luggage.

I prefer Modified Live Virus preparations for vaccines. It provides a better immune response from what research I have seen. It is worth noting that MLV Vaccines are not limited to Fetal Protection. MLV Vaccines are available for rotaviruses and coronaviruses. I am probably on the right (positive) scale of the bell curve. I would rather protect/control (Not sure you can say prevent) diseases than treat them. Seems like the cows are on the back 30 or it is 8 degrees when you need to treat.

 

[True Grit Farms]

Sounds like some really sick cattle up north of the border.
https://globalnews.ca/news/1830438/time ... se-crisis/
I don't think our friends down under need any help.

 

[gcreekrch]

Sounds like some really sick cattle up north of the border.
https://globalnews.ca/news/1830438/time ... se-crisis/
I don't think our friends down under need any help.

You are a piece of work aren't you?

The only difference between US and Canada in the BSE era was that your govt. had a better control on media and your vets used the SSS rule.

I believe the Texas cow had family members?

 

[Bright Raven]

Sounds like some really sick cattle up north of the border.
https://globalnews.ca/news/1830438/time ... se-crisis/
I don't think our friends down under need any help.

You are a piece of work aren't you?

You have no idea! Lol. They broke the mold after they pulled Vince out. In his defense, may I say, he has a good heart. He loves the poor, is charitable to the needy, faithful to all his government obligations, and there is not a prejudicial bone in his body. I will warn you though, don't enter his driveway - many men have tried and many men have died.

 

[gcreekrch]

Sounds like some really sick cattle up north of the border.
https://globalnews.ca/news/1830438/time ... se-crisis/
I don't think our friends down under need any help.

You are a piece of work aren't you?

You have no idea! Lol. They broke the mold after they pulled Vince out. In his defense, may I say, he has a good heart. He loves the poor, is charitable to the needy, faithful to all his government obligations, and there is not a prejudicial bone in his body. I will warn you though, don't enter his driveway - many men have tried and many men have died.

There was a poster hanging on the wall in the cafe where I grew up.

Yea, I shall walk through the Valley of Death, I shall fear no evil for I am the meanest SOB in the valley.

I have turned into that guy when dealing with internet bullies and blowhards but I will stay nice for a time yet.

 

[Bright Raven]

You are a piece of work aren't you?

You have no idea! Lol. They broke the mold after they pulled Vince out. In his defense, may I say, he has a good heart. He loves the poor, is charitable to the needy, faithful to all his government obligations, and there is not a prejudicial bone in his body. I will warn you though, don't enter his driveway - many men have tried and many men have died.

There was a poster hanging on the wall in the cafe where I grew up.

Yea, I shall walk through the Valley of Death, I shall fear no evil for I am the meanest SOB in the valley.

I have turned into that guy when dealing with internet bullies and blowhards but I will stay nice for a time yet.

True Grit is harmless. I bet he wears pink slippers. :hide:

 

[Silver]

You have no idea! Lol. They broke the mold after they pulled Vince out. In his defense, may I say, he has a good heart. He loves the poor, is charitable to the needy, faithful to all his government obligations, and there is not a prejudicial bone in his body. I will warn you though, don't enter his driveway - many men have tried and many men have died.

There was a poster hanging on the wall in the cafe where I grew up.

Yea, I shall walk through the Valley of Death, I shall fear no evil for I am the meanest SOB in the valley.

I have turned into that guy when dealing with internet bullies and blowhards but I will stay nice for a time yet.

True Grit is harmless. I bet he wears pink slippers. :hide:

Actually, he brings to mind a certain lumberjack in a song by Monty Python

 

[wbvs58]

Experience here has shown we would far rather vaccinate than treat.

Also, no matter how it is put, this business is more of a discriminations and deductions rather than premiums when marketing.

Several different vets have told us the killed vaccines will not prevent a PI calf from occurring. When a cow gets BVD she keeps it forever like luggage.

If you folks Down Unda ever do get on a program like many of us are following here we will have to be that much more competitive with you for the added production you will have.

BTW, your young folks are be nice fine workers we have had several pass through our operation. Benefitted both sides and they are all still fine friends.

Geek, you said earlier that what you buy in is vaccinated and then given Draxxin and followed up with Resflor, if that is not treating I don't know what is. Outside of in feedlots very few cattle would get any treatment here.

You are wrong about cows and BVD, you would not even know they had it apart from losing a calf or producing a PI or sickly calf, recovery is complete and subsequent calves are healthy.

Our tracability of every animal that is sold or slaughtered is 2nd to none and held in high regard in our export markets. Our new Biosecurity regulations are a natural extension of our tracability for our markets to give them confidence in what they are buying.

Ken

 

[gcreekrch]

Experience here has shown we would far rather vaccinate than treat.

Also, no matter how it is put, this business is more of a discriminations and deductions rather than premiums when marketing.

Several different vets have told us the killed vaccines will not prevent a PI calf from occurring. When a cow gets BVD she keeps it forever like luggage.

If you folks Down Unda ever do get on a program like many of us are following here we will have to be that much more competitive with you for the added production you will have.

BTW, your young folks are be nice fine workers we have had several pass through our operation. Benefitted both sides and they are all still fine friends.

Geek, you said earlier that what you buy in is vaccinated and then given Draxxin and followed up with Resflor, if that is not treating I don't know what is. Outside of in feedlots very few cattle would get any treatment here.

You are wrong about cows and BVD, you would not even know they had it apart from losing a calf or producing a PI or sickly calf, recovery is complete and subsequent calves are healthy.

Our tracability of every animal that is sold or slaughtered is 2nd to none and held in high regard in our export markets. Our new Biosecurity regulations are a natural extension of our tracability for our markets to give them confidence in what they are buying.

Ken

You misread what I wrote. Incoming calves are vaccinated and given Draxxin as a prophlactic as it's effectiveness is 2 weeks. Essentially giving the vaccines time to kick in. The calves that do get sick later (and some do) get a round of Resflor.
I never said we didn't treat at all. Our experience has shown that leaving out the Draxxin on arrival will just lead to treating most of them 6 to 15 a day until the vaccines kick in. We are in this for profit hopefully and a sick calf can be set back a month in gains.

I will look for something for you to read about BVD. I know when conception rates drop and calves don't live that you should be wondering why.

Your tracability is likely very similar to ours.

 

[gcreekrch]

www.nadis.org.uk/bulletins/control-of-b ... rhoea-(bvd).aspx

I believe you are mistaken about a cow having complete recovery. They may outwardly get better but will still shed the virus their entire life and may produce PI calves. If vaccinated annually with a MLV they will not produce any more PI calves

 

[True Grit Farms]

http://www.nadis.org.uk/bulletins/control-of-bovine-virus-diarrhoea-(bvd).aspx

I believe you are mistaken about a cow having complete recovery. They may outwardly get better but will still shed the virus their entire life and may produce PI calves. If vaccinated annually with a MLV they will not produce any more PI calves

And doesn't the same hold true for a killed vaccines like Triangle 10 HB?