our first highlander was pretty gentle, but all of her heifer calves were a little nuts and when one had a char calf he was really crazy. another crazy but nice looking cross was highlander - brahma. good mama cow there but extreme caution needed.
crossbred bull question
- Thread starter pdubdo
- Start date
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simme
Old Dumb Guy
Having a bull year round for 5 cows is expensive on a per cow basis. And bulls tend to cause trouble if not busy breeding cows. Other options to owning a bull year round:
AI as was suggested. Heat detection is key. Even with timed AI, you will get only about 50-60% max most likely and still need to heat detect to get the rest. Heat detection gets harder with a smaller number of cows. More cows in heat means more riding and easier to detect. One cow in heat out of five may not get much riding long enough to be noticed.
Rent or buy a bull each year. Have a controlled calving season as best fits your area. Then a 60 day breeding season regardless of AI or natural breeding. Sell or return the bull after breeding to cut costs of year round upkeep of the bull and the things he tears up. Look for purchasing and selling options to minimize cost of bull ownership. If you buy and resale a salebarn bull each year, cost should be minimized, but there are some health and fertility risks. Might be able to find a bull that is being sold because the owner already has daughters and needs a new bull. Try to buy for a little over beef price and sell after one breeding season.
Buy part ownership in a bull with a neighbor who has a bigger herd. Requires a different breeding season for each herd. Work a deal that you only keep him for 60 days.
If those don't work for you, then a purchased year round bull may be your choice. Choice of a bull breed depends on your plans. If you will sell all the progeny (not keep any replacements), then select for the use. Carcass, marbling and growth for beef you will eat or sale. Pounds if they go to the sale barn. Charolais would be a good choice for pounds with some heterosis. Red Angus or black should be good for carcass traits and growth for freezer beef. Simmental would be a choice if you are doing both freezer and sale barn and would give some heterosis.
I don't know much about Highlands. I would think about the horns, especially if you keep replacements. Also, that hair might not be the best for summer in your area. Don't think I have ever seen a Char-highlands cross and not thinking too favorable for that.
AI as was suggested. Heat detection is key. Even with timed AI, you will get only about 50-60% max most likely and still need to heat detect to get the rest. Heat detection gets harder with a smaller number of cows. More cows in heat means more riding and easier to detect. One cow in heat out of five may not get much riding long enough to be noticed.
Rent or buy a bull each year. Have a controlled calving season as best fits your area. Then a 60 day breeding season regardless of AI or natural breeding. Sell or return the bull after breeding to cut costs of year round upkeep of the bull and the things he tears up. Look for purchasing and selling options to minimize cost of bull ownership. If you buy and resale a salebarn bull each year, cost should be minimized, but there are some health and fertility risks. Might be able to find a bull that is being sold because the owner already has daughters and needs a new bull. Try to buy for a little over beef price and sell after one breeding season.
Buy part ownership in a bull with a neighbor who has a bigger herd. Requires a different breeding season for each herd. Work a deal that you only keep him for 60 days.
If those don't work for you, then a purchased year round bull may be your choice. Choice of a bull breed depends on your plans. If you will sell all the progeny (not keep any replacements), then select for the use. Carcass, marbling and growth for beef you will eat or sale. Pounds if they go to the sale barn. Charolais would be a good choice for pounds with some heterosis. Red Angus or black should be good for carcass traits and growth for freezer beef. Simmental would be a choice if you are doing both freezer and sale barn and would give some heterosis.
I don't know much about Highlands. I would think about the horns, especially if you keep replacements. Also, that hair might not be the best for summer in your area. Don't think I have ever seen a Char-highlands cross and not thinking too favorable for that.
pdubdo
Well-known member
Thanks for all the replies. BTW, the asking price of the crossbred yearling virgin bull is $1500. Not a lot of demand down here. Looking into AI, but I really don't want to have 1-2 open every year. I currently rent from a great local ranch, but I feel a little like they are doing me a favor each time and besides just paying more, I'm not in a good position to return the favor. Hadn't considered partial bull ownership though... Lots to think about 
Son of Butch
Well-known member
That's because by renting to a guy with just 5 cows they are actually doing you a favor. Don't forget to express or show appreciation. Most people are willing to do a favor for a little guy just getting started as long as they feel acknowledged and appreciated.
uplandnut
Well-known member
I would just keep doing what your doing and just keep looking for ways/opportunities to repay the favor when they arise.
MurraysMutts
Well-known member
I'm guilty of running a crossbred bull.
He was out of a purchased cow and I raised him. Never gave me any trouble.
I would not however be interested in anything Highland. Horns n hair will take a huge hit at the sale.
I'd run a salebarn black or red bull that's bought cheap and just re-sell him when I'm done with him. Plenty of yearling bulls go thru the sale. Get a somewhat slender, but not poor looking, animal. He will re-sell better by the time your done with him. And whatever you get, HAVE A BSE DONE!
He was out of a purchased cow and I raised him. Never gave me any trouble.
I would not however be interested in anything Highland. Horns n hair will take a huge hit at the sale.
I'd run a salebarn black or red bull that's bought cheap and just re-sell him when I'm done with him. Plenty of yearling bulls go thru the sale. Get a somewhat slender, but not poor looking, animal. He will re-sell better by the time your done with him. And whatever you get, HAVE A BSE DONE!
WalkerRanch 3-2
Active member
Ky hills
Well-known member
AI can work for some, and can get some good calves from it if it works. I'm not a fan as I always had to run a cleanup bull anyway.
I would either continue what you are doing, or try to find a reasonably priced decent bull purebred or possibly crossbred (depending on what the cross is). We are using an Angus/Hereford cross bull that is 3/4 Angus. I would be wary of the highland cross bull.
I would either continue what you are doing, or try to find a reasonably priced decent bull purebred or possibly crossbred (depending on what the cross is). We are using an Angus/Hereford cross bull that is 3/4 Angus. I would be wary of the highland cross bull.
A cross bred bull...1/2 one breed and 1/2 another breed, will randomly sire 1/2 his calves of one breed, and 1/2 another. If a bull has a gazillion sperm, half a gazillion sperm will be Charolais..in the instance of the OP's case...and 1/2 a gazillion will be Highland sperm. Another way to look at it....fill a swimming pool with red marbles. This represents the eggs of the red angus cows. Fill another pool with half white marbles( Charolais) and 1,/2 brown marbles ( Highland). With eyes closed reach in the 1st pool and pull out a marble.. place it in a jar. This is the red angus cow's egg. With eyes closed, reach in the other pool, and pull out a marble. It will be either white or brown. Put that marble in the jar, The jars represent the makeup of the calves. Do it again. The next marble you pull out of the 2nd pool might be white, or it might be brown. You may pull out 10 white ones in a row, or 20 brown ones in a row. Pulling out 40 marbles from the 2nd pool will not necessarily give you 20 white and 20 brown. It could, but it also could not. This is what happens when you use a cross bred bull.
Brangus is registered breed of its own. Brangus cattle have Brangus DNA. A half Angus and half Brahma is NOT a Brangus. Great Danes were developed by crossing Irish Wolf hounds with Bull Mastiffs. A dog that is half Irish Wolfhound and 1./2 Mastiff, is NOT a Great Dane. Breed a Great Dane to a Doberman, and you will get half GD and half Doberman pups. Breed that half Irish Wolfhound/ 1/2 Mastiff dog to a Doberman bitch, and the pups could all be Irish wolf hound x Dober... or all Mastif x Dober, or some of each. None will be Great Dane x Doberman.
Composite breeds like some people call Brangus, Gert etc, are not 1/2 Brahman and 1/2 Angus or shorthorn. Nor can you develope a new, composite breed that way. If you wanted to create,. say,. a Black Baldy BREED, you could not take half Angus/Half Hereford bulls and breed them, to half angus. half hereford cows. 25% of the offspring would be angus, 25% would be Herefords, and 50% would be black baldies. To create a black Baldy Breed, you'd breed black baldies to an angus, and breed black baldies to a hereford. You'd then take the 3/4 angus/1/4herefords and breed them to the 3/4 Herford/1/4 angus. Those calves would have 50% Angus and 50% hereford dna , and their eggs and sperm would be too, but they would all be black baldies. 50% angus dna and 50% hereford dna is not the same as a 1/2 Angus/1/2 Hereford cross.
I would never leave a grade stallion intact, nor a cross breed bull intact. myself.
Best cross of Bos indicus cattle to produce maximum heteratopsis, is Angus x Herford. If I were the OP., I'd use a Hereford bull. Or given his location, I'd probaly use a Braford bull. and I mean a Braford, not an F1 Brahma x Hereford.
J+ Cattle
Well-known member
That's also a good way to introduce Trich to your herd.
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MurraysMutts
Well-known member
Yes. ALL CAPS. HAVE A BSE DONE!
J+ Cattle
Well-known member
A Trich test isn't part of a normal BSE which checks fertility.Yes. ALL CAPS. HAVE A BSE DONE!
Here are the requirements for OK where you are located.
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Sorry to burst you bubble but that is not how genetics works.
A cross bred bull will not produce 100 percent highlands genes in one sperm and 100 charolais sperm in one sperm .
His semen will have a mix of approximately 50 percent of genes from each breed in every sperm.
That is very basic genetics.
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Brangus is a composite of angus and Brahma
That has been selectively breed for more and more angus genes
Registration means absolutely nothing I could form a breed registry today for a new breed called "mutts" and issue registration papers . Registered or papered animals don't automatically become a better breeding tool just because some one issued a piece of paper.
Silver
Well-known member
Calves from mostly crossbred bulls out of all cross bred cows. Probably average about 210 days of age.
simme
Old Dumb Guy
They look uniform and look like they have some growth in them. Pretty similar in color and in type. Maybe some Corriente in there? Will the buyers purchase those calves sired by crossbred bulls? I need to visit that part of the world. Water won't freeze but genetics there work the way I thought they would here. But would probably freeze my butt off. Maybe wait until summer. I hope I will be able to sell my calves here. Sounds like half will be black angus and half will be simmental. Probably spotted with horns on that simmental half. Maybe try Chianina next time on my small frame cow. Half will be 14 frame and half will be 4.
Need to go clean up now. Think I bit through my tongue.
Dead wrong. get 2 pieces of red string, and braid them together. This represents the red angus cows' cells...2 strands of DNA in each. Unravel them and take 1 string. That represents the red angus eggs. The other string needed to make cow cells comes from the bull. Now, take a white string and a brown string and twist them together, This the the 2 strands of DNA in each cell of that cross bred bull, Unravel them, and you have 1 white string and 1 brown string. A sperm cell has 1 strand of DNA....either a white strand or a brown strand. The OP will get more consistent calves, with the maximum hybrid vigor, from using a purebred Hereford or Braford bull, than the crossbred mutt.
I would suggest you go back to genetics 101.or at least read some of the multiple articles i have posted here that are based on scientific studies. You get hybrid vigior from heterosis . You get consistancy from homozygousity.
Using your example of strings.
When the cells divide to make sex cell they dont unbraid themselves to get 1 white string and one brown string . They chop them selves up so when you unwind the string you dont get one white string and one brown string . You get two strings that have sections of white and sections of brown in each string. The location and width of each color of string will vary . But overall you will average each string will be 50 percent white and 50 percent brown
Using your example of strings.
When the cells divide to make sex cell they dont unbraid themselves to get 1 white string and one brown string . They chop them selves up so when you unwind the string you dont get one white string and one brown string . You get two strings that have sections of white and sections of brown in each string. The location and width of each color of string will vary . But overall you will average each string will be 50 percent white and 50 percent brown
