Overly Extroverted Bull

[MurraysMutts]

That bull may have just smelled something he liked too.
Not to be crude, but they can smell certain things from a very far distance.

Buddy had a great big angus that just LOVED to walk along behind him and bump him with his head. Did the truck the same way. Just loved to bump things for no particular reason. I watched my buddy turn around smack the snot outta that bull right square on his nose!! I thought o crap! He gonna get killed.... bull just quietly backed up and left us alone. DONT TRY THAT!!


Off topic, but around here, the guy that's leasing the place makes it his place for the year. Not saying the landowner ain't welcome at any time to inspect or whatever is put in the lease, but most folks consider it rude to just go walking around uninvited. Good way to get hurt too, walking amongst unknown cattle etc

 

[Warren Allison]

That might be the most ridiculous thing you have said yet.

Well, thank ya, Scooter. I try. I know I can no where near ever say anything as dumb as most of your post,. but I try.

 

[Warren Allison]

Off topic, but around here, the guy that's leasing the place makes it his place for the year. Not saying the landowner ain't welcome at any time to inspect or whatever is put in the lease, but most folks consider it rude to just go walking around uninvited. Good way to get hurt too, walking amongst unknown cattle etc

Here, whoever is renting or leasing a property, is in effect THE owner during the time he rents/leases. The owner may not set foot on the property without the renter's permission. Even if the contract says the owner can do an inspection, the owner must make an appointment with the renter , and the renter can tell him whatever date he wanted to inspect is not good for them, and tell the owner WHEN he may come on the property. I had leased 150 acres form this old man, and I caught his son and grandson in deer stands on it. Made them get down and leave, and we went to Joe's house and I told him he could NOT let anyone hunt there. Next weekend they were back in the stand,. so I called the game warden and had them arrested for trespassing. Here, any rights of access not expressly granted to the owner in the written agreement are reserved to the renter.

 

[moses388]

Both legally, and from a common sense stand point, if you have an aggressive animal the land owner wants gone, get it gone. If you are lucky, they will as you to remove it. Worse case is they shoot it dead on the spot. If you balk any bit you can bet tour lease won't be renewed.

I think I agree, but I have questions. From what I can ascertain, the bull/cows are acting like normal well-cared for animals. What is the landowner's liability when the cattle are all high-headed & spooked from his running around blowing horns, hollering and hitting them with sticks? What is the lessee's liability if someone is mauled or killed? The lessee should not be responsible for the landowner's poor judgement.

 

[Brute 23]

Here, whoever is renting or leasing a property, is in effect THE owner during the time he rents/leases. The owner may not set foot on the property without the renter's permission. Even if the contract says the owner can do an inspection, the owner must make an appointment with the renter , and the renter can tell him whatever date he wanted to inspect is not good for them, and tell the owner WHEN he may come on the property. I had leased 150 acres form this old man, and I caught his son and grandson in deer stands on it. Made them get down and leave, and we went to Joe's house and I told him he could NOT let anyone hunt there. Next weekend they were back in the stand,. so I called the game warden and had them arrested for trespassing. Here, any rights of access not expressly granted to the owner in the written agreement are reserved to the renter.

You had a grazing lease and had them arrested? No way! Your grazing lease does not trump them being given permission by the owner... any where... legally.

This just keeps growing. This is out of hand.

 

[Brute 23]

I think I agree, but I have questions. From what I can ascertain, the bull/cows are acting like normal well-cared for animals. What is the landowner's liability when the cattle are all high-headed & spooked from his running around blowing horns, hollering and hitting them with sticks? What is the lessee's liability if someone is mauled or killed? The lessee should not be responsible for the landowner's poor judgement.

That would be tough. It's known there is a certain amount of risk with animals. I think it would be hard to hold the cattle owner responsible if the land owner engages the bull. On the other hand, once the land owner gives you notice of aggression (true or not), if some thing were to happen after that, it would be a lot easier to prove for them because you neglected an issue that was brought to your attention. Next to the land owner admitting they abused the animal, if an animal is aggressive and some one fears for their life, they will usually always have the right to use lethal force to defend themselves and it will be hard for you to prove they provoked the animal.

This all goes back to, you can't force leases like this. If you have a problem land owner you have to just move a long. It will be near impossible to force them, legally, to do what's right.

 

[Moooooo]

Since it has been brought up, my contract doesn't actually rent out the property as a whole. It provides the farmer with the right to put the cattle there. He's not really a tenant. He has no right to exclude me.

He has to maintain the fences and so on. I reserved the right to shoot or do whatever else I want out there. I have a berm and some steel target stands I made, and I also built a shooting bench and a prone-shooting platform. Also, he and his relations can't come on the property to do things unrelated to farming. They have to come in, do their thing, and leave. They can't use the gates that surround my house. They can't have barbecues or hunt squirrels. The farmer can't plant anything or put other animals there. No tiger cages or alligator pits.

My grandfather had a snotty tenant who sent his trash relatives onto his farm--my inheritance--to cut trees for firewood, so I thought of such things.

I also have the right to sell his cattle if he runs off or dies.

 

[Brute 23]

Since it has been brought up, my contract doesn't actually rent out the property as a whole. It provides the farmer with the right to put the cattle there. He's not really a tenant. He has no right to exclude me.

He has to maintain the fences and so on. I reserved the right to shoot or do whatever else I want out there. I have a berm and some steel target stands I made, and I also built a shooting bench and a prone-shooting platform. Also, he and his relations can't come on the property to do things unrelated to farming. They have to come in, do their thing, and leave. They can't use the gates that surround my house. They can't have barbecues or hunt squirrels. The farmer can't plant anything or put other animals there. No tiger cages or alligator pits.

My grandfather had a snotty tenant who sent his trash relatives onto his farm--my inheritance--to cut trees for firewood, so I thought of such things.

I also have the right to sell his cattle if he runs off or dies.

That is how our leases are also and how I write them. Lessee is granted grazing rights only. I have to work with hunters, o&g, land owners or their guests/ agents, etc.

When I had pigs coming to ground feed feeders on one place I had to ask permission to kill them. He sent me an email (in writing) giving me permission to take hogs off. I can not chop wood, remove posts, glass bottles, or any thing like that. Like you said, go in, handle business, get out.

 

[Travlr]

Since it has been brought up, my contract doesn't actually rent out the property as a whole. It provides the farmer with the right to put the cattle there. He's not really a tenant. He has no right to exclude me.

He has to maintain the fences and so on. I reserved the right to shoot or do whatever else I want out there. I have a berm and some steel target stands I made, and I also built a shooting bench and a prone-shooting platform. Also, he and his relations can't come on the property to do things unrelated to farming. They have to come in, do their thing, and leave. They can't use the gates that surround my house. They can't have barbecues or hunt squirrels. The farmer can't plant anything or put other animals there. No tiger cages or alligator pits.

My grandfather had a snotty tenant who sent his trash relatives onto his farm--my inheritance--to cut trees for firewood, so I thought of such things.

I also have the right to sell his cattle if he runs off or dies.

Maybe you could take some pics and post them so people could see the contract? It sounds like a well thought out idea.

I had a little, old house in town that I rented out because I must have been temporarily insane... I'd spent a lot of time and effort to strip the old locks and door handles, getting them restored and beautiful. My first tenants asked if they could paint, and me thinking they were talking about painting a room I told them they could. The only thing they painted was the door handles and locks... except for the door frame, the space between the front screen door and the front door. I mean... wtf??? Who does that? Why would anyone specifically paint the locks and door handles?

 

[Mark Reynolds]

That might be the most ridiculous thing you have said yet.

I see the point. It's kinda the equivalent of a landlord letting himself into a tenants apartment without the tenant knowing.

 

[Mark Reynolds]

That is how our leases are also and how I write them. Lessee is granted grazing rights only. I have to work with hunters, o&g, land owners or their guests/ agents, etc.

When I had pigs coming to ground feed feeders on one place I had to ask permission to kill them. He sent me an email (in writing) giving me permission to take hogs off. I can not chop wood, remove posts, glass bottles, or any thing like that. Like you said, go in, handle business, get out.

OK. That's a different perspective than what I was thinking, and is valid also.

 

[Brute 23]

I see the point. It's kinda the equivalent of a landlord letting himself into a tenants apartment without the tenant knowing.

It's like you leasing one apartment and thinking you own the whole dang building.

 

[Warren Allison]

I see the point. It's kinda the equivalent of a landlord letting himself into a tenants apartment without the tenant knowing.

Exactly. Here, unless rights of access are expressly granted in the lease/rental agreement are granted to the owner, all rights are reserved to the renter/lesse. I Learned this when I handt heard form someone renting my house, and went to check on it. The water department was there, about to dig up the water meter! I asked what they were doing, and they asked who I was. I told them I owned the house. They said " Well, your renter hasnt paid for months, and every time we pull the meter he jumps it. So we are removing the service" I got them to leave it, and called the old lady and told her to call the water department and pay whatever is owed. I then drove up to my house. No one was home, and I looked in some of the windows and doors. Living room was full of TVs ,computers an stereos, all in various states of disassembly. I opened the back door, and the smell hit me! I called the sherrif and gave them the add .ress, Told them I suspected I had found a meth lab. When the deputy got there, I told him who I was, and told him I would open the door so he could go in and see. He said he can NOT enter without the permission of the renter, or a warrant, He said " Matter of fact, he can charge YOU with breaking and entering, unless he gave you permission to go in. It might be different where Skippy ( Brute) lives, but that is how it is here. I have rented pastures form people, and have rented pastures to people. I have never gone into a pasture I rented to someone without asking them, nor has an owner ever did that to me, except the idiot that told his son he could hunt in MY pasture. With me renting it and occupying it, it wasn;t the owner's right to grant permission. Son would have had to gotten permission from me.

 

[Warren Allison]

You had a grazing lease and had them arrested? No way! Your grazing lease does not trump them being given permission by the owner... any where... legally.

This just keeps growing. This is out of hand.

Well, Pigeon, I explained how that works above, in language a 5 yr old should be able to understand. Maybe you can find someone to read it to you and explain it better. Not gonna argue with you. Now., SHOOO! Fly away!

 

[Brute 23]

Well, Pigeon, I explained how that works above, in language a 5 yr old should be able to understand. Maybe you can find someone to read it to you and explain it better. NOt gonna argue with you. Now., SHOOO! Fly away!

Like them Braford and LH.. no wait Beefmasters. I bet that story is as true as the othe one you told.

 

[sunnyblueskies]

little girl, maybe five, was standing in a beautiful white dress close to the fence and looking out over the pasture... and I saw one of the lambs coming up behind her.

The little girl ended up in the manure. She was fine but she took a good hit by surprise and the parents were not happy.

I quit tempting the lambs to butt my hand after that and they never did it on their own. You don't want to teach any large animal to be playful.

Did you end up marrying her? =D Oh come on, just yanking your chain.
You are right though, play with big animals and you'll pay the price, even if they didn't mean to harm you.

 

[sunnyblueskies]

and we do NOT put mean bulls, or aggressive bulls, or bulls that won't stay put, out on lease places

That's all great what you are saying and yes courtesy on anything first and foremost is my personal motto.........
But if I may ask a question, or make a statement, there is no way you can control a bull to stay put if he wants to go from a pasture. At least with regular fence and not 6 foot high steel panel fencing.

 

[Brute 23]

Leasing grazing rights is not the same as a dwelling (rental house or apt). It is two completely different things... no matter what state you are in. Leasing grazing rights is more like leasing for O&G, hunting, solar, wind, etc.

Consult an attorney when doing leases of any kind as they will all have different stipulations.

 

[farmerjan]

That's all great what you are saying and yes courtesy on anything first and foremost is my personal motto.........
But if I may ask a question, or make a statement, there is no way you can control a bull to stay put if he wants to go from a pasture. At least with regular fence and not 6 foot high steel panel fencing.

I meant that we do not knowingly put a bull with "containment issues" out on a lease place... if they have been a problem somewhere, they do not get put out normally. We do have one place that one certain bull will just go next door... and he is no problem anywhere else... so he never gets put out at that place....
But, I agree, if they really want to go somewhere else and not stay put, there are not many options in normal pastures with normal fences...

 

[kenny thomas]

Electric fence is the bulls worst nightmare. My bulls will stand 20ft from the fence and fuss but never get out