crossbred bull question

[Rmc]

I am not sacrificing quality on my or my customers tables.

Yes it would be pretty horrible to screw up the quality of beef on your customers tables by increasing tenderness while at the same time increasing yield % by adding highland genetics as part of a three way cross.
Increasing tenderness of meat is not something one should strive for. Especially if selling direct to consumer

 

[Silver]

Thank you for offering an example of the need for a pure bred bull.

IMO a purebred bull is still a cross bred bull. I know that will set folks off, but it is in fact not a fullblood.

 

[gusea305]

Yes it would be pretty horrible to screw up the quality of beef on your customers tables by increasing tenderness while at the same time increasing yield % by adding highland genetics as part of a three way cross.
Increasing tenderness of meat is not something one should strive for. Especially if selling direct to consumer

Oh so you are a highland guy? Now you are just talking from your fourth point of contact.

 

[gusea305]

IMO a purebred bull is still a cross bred bull. I know that will set folks off, but it is in fact not a fullblood.

Thanks for the chuckle. In some breeds those words are interchangeable. In others there is a definite delineation. In fact I accidently found out that the angus association is quite adamant about it. It seems the associations that are reliant on crossbreeding somewhere along the line use purebred. For all intents and purposes, as far as I am concerned, 6 of one half dozen of the other.

 

[Silver]

Thanks for the chuckle. In some breeds those words are interchangeable. In others there is a definite delineation. In fact I accidently found out that the angus association is quite adamant about it. It seems the associations that are reliant on crossbreeding somewhere along the line use purebred. For all intents and purposes, as far as I am concerned, 6 of one half dozen of the other.

Totally different meaning unless you are raising British breeds. I don't so therefore the terms are not interchangeable.

 

[Rmc]

Oh so you are a highland guy? Now you are just talking from your fourth point of contact.

Sorry to burst your bubble but most of my herd is angus based . Just not afraid to add other breeds including highlander for a three way terminal cross .
Have been selling some direct to consumer for over 20 years.
Have no clue what your referring to my fourth point of contact

 

[gusea305]

Sorry to burst your bubble but most of my herd is angus based . Just not afraid to add other breeds including highlander for a three way terminal cross .
Have been selling some direct to consumer for over 20 years.
Have no clue what your referring to my fourth point of contact

Do you use F1 bulls in your herd? Do you use F1 bulls from so far away from your herds genetics? Would you put an F1 Charolais/Highlander bull in your program? Would you suggest this person does that with the given information? Do you think purporting an F1 bull is going to help OP or is there enough risk to make it not such a great idea?

These are not rhetorical questions. I really would like to know.

 

[gusea305]

My very first cow was a Highlander. I rode a 'goofy' colt all summer for someone so I could buy her, but my Highlander
wasn't goofy. Must be the charolais infusion.

I watched them run 2 really hot youngish highland bulls through the Eugene Livestock Auction. One ended up in the auctioneers booth. I do not know how he didn't kill the auctioneer and the secretary. That was an exciting auction. I imagine they were just never handled.

 

[Rmc]

I have answered most of the questions already in my replies to this thread
Depending on my goal yes as a terminal cross absolutely.
The average herd size in the us is under 50 cows.
Especially in small operations I think it is far more beneficial to use a f1 bull on
Straight bred cows then the other way around especially in terminal cross situations. Far easier to correct flaws or change direction with a cross bred bull on straight bred cows then the other way around
If you want maximum hybrid vigor best way to do it is with unrelated genetics. To much of today's breeds are to close to each other genetically to get much hybrid vigor. In my herd a three way cross is done to achieve maximum hybrid vigor and is always a terminal cross. Why not add Charalais genetics to add lbs and highlander to help with tenderness and feed efficiency?

 

[gusea305]

I have answered most of the questions already in my replies to this thread
Depending on my goal yes as a terminal cross absolutely.
The average herd size in the us is under 50 cows.
Especially in small operations I think it is far more beneficial to use a f1 bull on
Straight bred cows then the other way around especially in terminal cross situations. Far easier to correct flaws or change direction with a cross bred bull on straight bred cows then the other way around
If you want maximum hybrid vigor best way to do it is with unrelated genetics. To much of today's breeds are to close to each other genetically to get much hybrid vigor. In my herd a three way cross is done to achieve maximum hybrid vigor and is always a terminal cross. Why not add Charalais genetics to add lbs and highlander to help with tenderness and feed efficiency?

Because none of that is predictable in the slightest. It would require the same allele packet for tenderness from all 3 breeds. Each breeding is only a 50% chance to pass on 1 allele of the same gene. If the genes are not the same in all 3 breeds then you just cut out that entire packet. The chances of losing marbling are at least 75% if the marbling genes are the same between the 3 breeds. You just do not know what you will get. A balanced genetic profile is far better than trying to breed for one or two traits.

 

[Ky hills]

There are so many factors that go into how genetics line up and pass down, it's one of those things that we as humans that are involved in the cattle industry want to predict, manipulate and control. It's also something that I don't think we can do a very good job of it. I would take the knowledge of a longtime cattleperson from years of practical experience any day over the EPD's, and even the genetically enhanced EPD's. People somehow maintained their herds for years and decades without them.
My personal opinion is that a Charolais X Highland is not a cross that would be desirable in most situations, quite frankly can't think of any as far as a bull. That's the extreme end of fire and ice matings. Fire and ice matings even within the same breed rarely give consistent results so I certainly wouldn't expect it to in the capacity of a crossbred bull of that description.
I am not at all opposed to using a good crossbred bull, that comes from known lines, as long as there are not extremes and the cowherd is of the type and kind that would work well with the individual bull.

 

[Silver]

Those Highland cattle do get a lot of city folks stopped and taking their pictures. I think that if there is a business case for them it lays somewhere within that observation.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

This is 9 pages long and the OP isn't even in on the argument/discussion!!!

 

[Silver]

Good arguments don't need an OP

 

[MurraysMutts]

This is 9 pages long and the OP isn't even in on the argument/discussion!!!

I think he gave up and bought a corriente bull instead. From someone down south somewheres

 

[Rmc]

Taste Test - Highland Cattle No.1

Highland Cattle produce flavoursome beef. The Taste Test proves it

www.cruachan.com.au

 

[Rmc]

Taste Test - Highland Cattle No.1

Highland Cattle produce flavoursome beef. The Taste Test proves it

www.cruachan.com.au

Yep definitely bad to try to add any of these traits in your herd.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

That is great. This was tested in Australia - not American breeds. Granted the Highland steer won. ONE STEER in each breed catagory back in 1993. Really? This is a breed association's promoting their breed. ONE STEER of any breed can happen to win a contest. Let's see University or MARC research.
Pick a breed. I bet they have some wonderful things to say about their breed.
I am NOT saying Highland cattle don't marble, taste, have tenderness - just saying this is a pizz poor PROOF. ONE steer back in 1993.

 

[Rmc]

My personal opinion is that a Charolais X Highland is not a cross that would be desirable in most situations, quite frankly can't think of any as far as a bull. That's the extreme end of fire and ice matings. Fire and ice matings even within the same breed rarely give consistent results so I certainly wouldn't expect it to in the capacity of a crossbred bull of that description.

So hybrid vigor is good but it isn't ? Which one ?
The entire idea of hybrid vigor is to cross two line bred animals that are as far as possible genetically from each other to produce maximum heterosis.
You say you would listen to a long time breeder with practical experience. Yet you sit and argue with me . So which one is it?

 

[Rmc]

https://www.highlandcattleusa.org/content/EXECUTIVESUMMARY.pdf

https://www.highlandcattleusa.org/content/THERESTOFTHESTORY.pdf