Coyotes or Mountain Lion got 2 calves.... Mystery??
- Thread starter EIEIO
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Campground Cattle
Well-known member
Placenta is a delicacy(sp) to coyotes as well as baby calf sh--.
SPRINGER FARMS MURRAY GRE
Well-known member
SPRINGER FARMS MURRAY GRE":2pwebd4g said:
We butt right up to "Bear Country" in the ouachitas, don't usually have any trouble,or even see one.It has been so dry here that the bears are having to range further afield in search of food.My neighbor saw one a couple of weeks ago,and it spooked his herd when they picked up the bears scent. :?: :shock: :cboy:
Campground Cattle":24q3wya4 said:
Must be cause I put some in a 5 gallon bucket and tied it in a tree 3-4 feet of the ground. Came back with a spotlight that night, were about 8-10 around the immediate area, shot one, came back the next morning and shot another. Last year, some around here were mangy with no hair.Ugly critters.
EIEIO
Well-known member
Intersesting evening tonight as I talked and called a few of my neighbors letting them know what all I had going on here.
Neighbor to the north of me that's a rancher and also the county sheriff advised me he and his grandson had been down our road about 6 weeks ago and spotted a young mountain lion. He said he just hated to start spreading rumors and such but wished he would have told me about the sighting. He said it was just along our southern most fence line and he sure wished he had a camera with him. He also told me of 2 sightings in the area he had seen in the last few years.
Dang shame the conservation department acts like such animals don't exist in these parts even tho' they do.
It's kinda making sense now with the first 2 kills on my place being somewhat out in the open and the third nowhere to be found. Conservation officer said a young mountain lion may take some time to get his hunting practices "normal".
Two other neighbors also advised me within the last year of a dead deer near my place that had been covered up and they watched every day of how something had been feeding on it. They had observed where it had been dragged from where it was at first and then covered in another location.
The sheriff advised me that since I've documented the kills on my place I'm within my rights to shoot a mountain lion if that's whats been here even if it's a protected species due to laws that will protect me from prosecution because it is taking my livestock.
J
Neighbor to the north of me that's a rancher and also the county sheriff advised me he and his grandson had been down our road about 6 weeks ago and spotted a young mountain lion. He said he just hated to start spreading rumors and such but wished he would have told me about the sighting. He said it was just along our southern most fence line and he sure wished he had a camera with him. He also told me of 2 sightings in the area he had seen in the last few years.
Dang shame the conservation department acts like such animals don't exist in these parts even tho' they do.
It's kinda making sense now with the first 2 kills on my place being somewhat out in the open and the third nowhere to be found. Conservation officer said a young mountain lion may take some time to get his hunting practices "normal".
Two other neighbors also advised me within the last year of a dead deer near my place that had been covered up and they watched every day of how something had been feeding on it. They had observed where it had been dragged from where it was at first and then covered in another location.
The sheriff advised me that since I've documented the kills on my place I'm within my rights to shoot a mountain lion if that's whats been here even if it's a protected species due to laws that will protect me from prosecution because it is taking my livestock.
J
EIEIO":2r1swhxl said:
Regardless of what the sheriff 'advised', if you get the opportunity to shoot the mountain lion, I would put the 3 S's into practice; shoot, shovel, and shut-up. I know that up here mountain lions are a federally protected species, I don't see how a county can override that regardless of the circumstances.
Turkey Run
Active member
I bet if you find any remains of the second calf,it'll be in someones freezer.Theres a lot bigger chance of someone getting them than a mt. lion.Here's my theory for what its worth,some shot the deer [nighttime ,thought it was a deer],left it.Same person,[persons more likely]killed a calf ,got scared off for what ever reason.Same person killed another calf and took it therefore no remains. Maybe not in that exact order.
sidney411
Well-known member
SF - You tell me, coyotes or dogs? (The one's in the back of the truck )
:lol:
SF
Well-known member
Sidney;
Can't tell a hybrid or crossbred from a purebred with a pic of two canines laying in the back of a truck. The ones in the back of the truck certainly have the appearance of a coyote. So do most coyote-red wolf crosses (Haven't seen any in Texas though and haven't heard of them moving this far west). Any canine that is killing livestock needs to be euthanized by an appropriate method, therefore we are arguing symantecs here.
You work in IT, so do some searches on coyotes and red wolves, their nature, their habitat, etc... You will find that the gov't and the wildlife folks introduced red wolves into the southeastern portion of the US several years back. You will find that the red wolves and the coyotes began crossbreeding. There aren't many (if any) coyotes or red wolves left in the southeast now. They have created a hybrid that lives like a coyote and a wolf. Some now hunt in packs, some even live in packs. These animals pose a much greater danger than coyotes.
My point is: actual coyotes are not a danger to most livestock producers. Coyotes usually are scavengers and eat small rodents. They don't generally attack cattle. If you raise sheep or goats, whole different problem.
This is my opinion based upon the information I've researched and witenessed. If you have witnessed something different Sidney, then I believe you. I don't have a reason not to.
You have a nice day. Nice pics.
Can't tell a hybrid or crossbred from a purebred with a pic of two canines laying in the back of a truck. The ones in the back of the truck certainly have the appearance of a coyote. So do most coyote-red wolf crosses (Haven't seen any in Texas though and haven't heard of them moving this far west). Any canine that is killing livestock needs to be euthanized by an appropriate method, therefore we are arguing symantecs here.
You work in IT, so do some searches on coyotes and red wolves, their nature, their habitat, etc... You will find that the gov't and the wildlife folks introduced red wolves into the southeastern portion of the US several years back. You will find that the red wolves and the coyotes began crossbreeding. There aren't many (if any) coyotes or red wolves left in the southeast now. They have created a hybrid that lives like a coyote and a wolf. Some now hunt in packs, some even live in packs. These animals pose a much greater danger than coyotes.
My point is: actual coyotes are not a danger to most livestock producers. Coyotes usually are scavengers and eat small rodents. They don't generally attack cattle. If you raise sheep or goats, whole different problem.
This is my opinion based upon the information I've researched and witenessed. If you have witnessed something different Sidney, then I believe you. I don't have a reason not to.
You have a nice day. Nice pics.
Arnold Ziffle
Well-known member
Now I bet that's a picture that will brighten the day for Craig-Tx., knowing his fondness for 'yotes (dead ones, that is) ;-)
sidney411
Well-known member
SF - Your right, I did do some digging on the Inernet about red wolves and any pictures I could find of the hybrids. I really didn't realize they were around here. Everything I've seen look like these two, and I've always known them as coyotes. I don't think I would be able to tell them apart if I saw them standing side by side. These must have been some sort of hybrid since they were traveling together. Thanks for the information, learned something new today.
SF
Well-known member
sidney411":3rogoqna said:
Sidney;
It is nearly impossible to tell the difference when they are out in a pasture. The method I use, if they are alone, I usually leave them be, as they are probably just coyotes and not going to be hurting anything. If they are traveling in a group, I do my best to euthanize them.
Have a good day
Greg
Conagher
Well-known member
I always find this topic intriguing. I have a lot of coyotes on my place. Grew up in this area and we have always had a lot of coyotes as well as wild dogs. Hear several groups yelping every night. They come up to my garden and eat my watermelons almost nightly this time of year. Last spring just as it was getting dark I was doing some dozer work and had a group of seven come up and walk on each side of me heading for the watering tank - coyotes, not wild dogs. Most any morning you can see one crossing the pastures. Most of the time it is just one, some times two, and ever so often three together. I'm not smart enough to know if they hunt alone or in groups - but when I hear them in the late evenings there is certainly more than one in the group. Maybe no one told our coyotes they were suppose to hunt alone, I don't know.
But there is one thing I do know; neither I nor any person I have known in the area over the last 40+ years has ever "personnally" witnessed a coyote kill a healthy calf. I've heard people say, "Well, ol' so-and-so had a calf killed by a coyote", but when I personally speak with ol' so-and-so it is the same with most which have seen them feed on a dead/dying cow/calf but never actually seen one run down a calf and kill it. And most of the time the buzzards are there before any coyote shows up. I'm not saying it hasn't happened, I'm just saying that I have never met a person that has actually witnessed it.
There are some folks in the area that shoot them. Some because their fathers did, some that have moved out to the area on small acreage that don't even have livestock or maybe just a horse or two. As for me, I let them be. However, if I ever do actually see one run down and kill one of my calves, I will have no problem with terminating them.
But there is one thing I do know; neither I nor any person I have known in the area over the last 40+ years has ever "personnally" witnessed a coyote kill a healthy calf. I've heard people say, "Well, ol' so-and-so had a calf killed by a coyote", but when I personally speak with ol' so-and-so it is the same with most which have seen them feed on a dead/dying cow/calf but never actually seen one run down a calf and kill it. And most of the time the buzzards are there before any coyote shows up. I'm not saying it hasn't happened, I'm just saying that I have never met a person that has actually witnessed it.
There are some folks in the area that shoot them. Some because their fathers did, some that have moved out to the area on small acreage that don't even have livestock or maybe just a horse or two. As for me, I let them be. However, if I ever do actually see one run down and kill one of my calves, I will have no problem with terminating them.
showme
Well-known member
We have a 4 donkeys 1 is a plug and scard of the cows so we put him in the hers to keep coyotes away the other 3 are old but get the job done as far as braking calves. I don't think donleys will keep Mountain loins away. What does?
EIEIO
Well-known member
Conagher, 100% with ya' on folks and their take on coyotes taking calves or cows. Never met anyone yet that actually witnessed an event. I think folks see them feeding on a dead calf and assume the yote killed it.
I was just starting to relax a bit with our problem here and last night the wife was taking the back road out and just at the end of our property line she saw a deer get up real slow and begin to limp off. She looked at it up close and could see claw marks down it's hindquarters.
The scope on my rifle becomes usless around 9 at night so today I'm gonna check out the el'cheapo generation one night vision spotting scopes at Wal-Mart that go for about $150. Figure I can use it to spot, then hit whatever with the spotlight and take it out with the rifle.
J
I was just starting to relax a bit with our problem here and last night the wife was taking the back road out and just at the end of our property line she saw a deer get up real slow and begin to limp off. She looked at it up close and could see claw marks down it's hindquarters.
The scope on my rifle becomes usless around 9 at night so today I'm gonna check out the el'cheapo generation one night vision spotting scopes at Wal-Mart that go for about $150. Figure I can use it to spot, then hit whatever with the spotlight and take it out with the rifle.
J
Conagher
Well-known member
EIEIO - good luck with the cat. I've never ran into this problem so don't have a clue how to resolve it. I know in the West they hunt them with dogs; not sure if there is anyone in your area that does that or not. Heard tell from some of the ol' coon hunters in the area that their dogs use to tree them down in the Sabine river bottom, though I've never seen a dead cat that proves that out.
Good Luck!
Good Luck!
Caustic Burno
Well-known member
Conagher":222q36tw said:
Well you hit the nail on the head cats are everywhere listen to the posters, hell they are more populated than cat squirrels.
What is amazing is no one every kills one of the bovine killing machines. Deer hunters don't ranchers don't heck one never gets hit by a car, but they are still everywhere. Just scares me to death thinking about it.
do bobcats count? we had 2 rabid bobcats jump a man ON A TRACTOR about 2 years ago. he killed one by bludgeoning it and i think the other was later shot. had some rabid foxes attack an old lady around the same time.
sidney411
Well-known member
I don't care who you are that would scare the crap out of you! I would have probably have died from a heart attack!
preston39
Well-known member
============SF":3s8clhk9 said:
SF,
Maybe coyotes do not hunt in packs in Texas...but they do elswhere.
We just had a neighbor loose a 1000lb cow to a pack of 5 yotes......he witnesed the struggle...they had been running her...yepping...in attack mode....he heard the commotion 1 am...by the time he got to her they already had the chest torn open. He thinks she had a heart attack from the stress. Coyotes will pack....for a hunt....no doubt in my mind. Agreed, it seems to be a new approach.
