Coyotes or Mountain Lion got 2 calves.... Mystery??

[EIEIO]

I did a complete herd check about 6 days ago and everything looked great as the pink eye in my herd had cleared up except for my bull who still had a bit of a cloudy eye. Yesterday I was out and about and sure thought everything was still OK.

I had 3 cow's calve late this year and they all had small calves on the ground. When I say small I'm talking about them being born at the end of April and first of May.

I thought I had checked and counted all the calves the other day but I got a couple of cows that are shy with their calves and will usually keep them hid from me while I am out dumping them range cubes as I look them over.

Tonight the wife was out with my daughters on horseback and said she saw a dead calf. I went out on the ATV and found it. This time a year it's tough to tell how long something has been dead for due to the rapid decomposition that occurs in the summer but something had been feeding on it and it was bout' all gone and the bones were scattered a bit but not a whole lot. I keep going on the ATV and less than 50 yards from the dead calf I find a dead deer. Same story, small animal, ate down good but the bones were not all scattered. Get to checking the herd and discover only one of the 3 cows that had calved late still had a calf at her side. Was almost dark and I never found the other calf.

I'm really thinking mountain lion rather than yote's. In all honesty I've heard of folks saying they have heard of people saying they had calves taken by coyotes but have never met anyone that actually had. I've seen mama cows chasing 2-3 coyotes at a time and also seen a herd of cattle ganging up on coyotes before. Another reason I'm thinking mountain lion is the fact the bones were not all drug about like a pack of coyotes would do. Also the dead animals were both down in a valley setting.

Just real frustrated here tonight. Any opinions? I just know I'll be out with either the AR-15 or 30-06 and a preditor call tomorrow night. Wish I could be out tonight but family obligations and terrible wind conditions prevent me from doing it. Where the heck is that strong south wind when a fella needs it, calm as can be out there right now.

J

 

[Caustic Burno]

Not the cats again. If a cat kills it will cover the reamains.
Dogs it looks like an explosion when the neighbors pets are playing. Coyotes usually start at the entrails.

 

[EIEIO]

Agreed, that a cat will usually drag off the body and keep it hid to feed off of for a few days.

Valley setting I'm describing is close to what we are talking about. Cat's don't "burry" what they kill like a dog would a bone.

Yea , I know what a coyote will do. This don't look like a coyote kill. Just like the dog problem they usually drag the parts everywhere.

J

 

[EIEIO]

Oh, I forgot to add that I'm sorry to bother you so much that you felt the need to reply to me with the "not the cat's again" remark. Don't know if ya' ranch or not as this is the internet and who the he!! knows if I'm talking to some dang dude in an apartment in the middle of LA or an actual rancher, I'm new here, and I'm PO'd about the loss of some animals right now that will cost me some money in the long run.

Sorry if this has been talked about way too much in the past, again I'm new here.

J

 

[Craig-TX]

Considering that two calves and a deer were killed more or less at the same time and in the same place, I would guess dogs. Multiple kills don't fit a lion's MO at all and generally don't fit coyotes. Keep the rifle zeroed and handy.

 

[Beefy]

i agree with Craig Tx.

 

[EIEIO]

This did not all happen in a weeks time. I'd say more like 2 weeks on the cattle and who knows on the deer if I were to guess.

Like I said, some of the cows are kinda shy about bringing their calves up when I'm doing a herd check. That's why I did not think much about the 2 missing calves during herd checks.

No wild dogs around here as we take care of them real quick. Folks round here don't put up with such things. Neighbors run llamas and guardian dogs to protect their goats and cattle.

Rifle's are on zero. Just wish the dang wind was blowing as I've hunted enough to know I could not call up crap in this calm.

J

 

[Beefy]

2 2 month old calves. never had a cow keep a 2 month old calf hidden. i'd say its the work of a pack of something, or blackleg, or poisoning or something, then maybe a cat.

 

[Crowderfarms]

2 2 month old calves. never had a cow keep a 2 month old calf hidden. i'd say its the work of a pack of something, or blackleg, or poisoning or something, then maybe a cat.

Beefy has a good point. The Deer is puzzling. Only time I've seen dogs get close to a deer to kill it around here is when they have Fawns, as they do now. A Doe will decoy herself to protect the baby. Also, don't bet on it not being dogs. They have a habit of working the night shift. I'd rather have a cat prowling around than a pack of Dogs. Either or,they'd be dead. Keep that rifle locked and loaded.

 

[EIEIO]

You know I stewed on this seems like most the night and someone mentioned poisoning which got me thinking 2 legged critter. Went out this morning and took a look down the valley where the deer and one calf was and both could be seen from the road, or at least the area they were down at could be. The deer was not huge but difinetly big enough that I doubt a pack of dogs or coyotes chased it down.

Sure got me thinking about an idiot with a spotlight out having some "fun". We live on a dirt road and are the only folks on the road. Guess I just might never know on this one. Still think tho' if it was a pack of something the bones would be drug about. Know whenever we have had a cow butchered here on site the yote's even drag off the head a ways.

When I say I've got a few cows that keep their calves hidden I mean they are just shy enough with their calves for the first few months I don't think nothing of it if they are not around when doing a herd check. One old gal that lost a calf is always the last one to come up, calf or not. Gentle as can be, just slow and shy.

Had I not just worked cattle within the last month I might be considering disease but never have I lost 2 calves in such a short time.

J

 

[sidney411]

I feel for you! I just lost a calf to dogs that we had raised from a baby, he was the closest to a pet we had. It hurts to lose one. Like was said- keep that rifle handy. I would also think hard about people driving around spotlighting, a 2 month old calf could be mistaken for a deer. Expecially by someone that has kicked a few back and joyriding. It's terrible to think that someone would do something like that but you never know. I'm so sorry for your loss!

 

[Farmhand]

Sorry to hear of your loss. We have a dirt road also. Boy, can they be trouble. We are lucky enough to be close enough to do daily checks. We purposely do everything on varying schedules to try to catch/discourage activity there. It was pretty much working as they decided to stick to the abandoned farm place at the other end. Still, things got bad enough that the local police department started doing rural patrols.

 

[Turkey Run]

If it's close to a county road,there's a chance someone is shooting them,usually happens closer to deer season around here, the spotlighters see eyes and assume it's a deer.Check the skulls for bullet holes, there are people who don't have any thing better to do but cause grief.Dogs can and do catch even grown deer,seen it happen[ broke coon dogs Ha Ha ]cats do cover ther kill with grass,leaves,sticks,and dirt.

 

[SF]

Sorry for your loss. I'd be inclined to believe it is a 2 legged critter. Coyotes do not hunt in packs. Red wolves do. Red wolves that are crossed with coyotes will hunt in packs like wolves. Dogs will hunt in packs also. Coyotes do not. It would take a pack of dogs or wolves to get a healthy 2 month old calf. If disease is not an option, I'd suspect the 2 legged wolf. JMO
Greg

 

[SPRINGER FARMS MURRAY GRE]

Do you have any bears? :shock:

 

[EIEIO]

We do have black bears around. Neighbors have seen them before around our place and just a few weeks ago their was a picture of one in the paper about 15 miles from me that was a young male.

I contacted the conservation department and spoke with their expert on such things. He really wanted to come out but said it would not do much good as the animals had been dead too long and he would not be able to do a positive ID on whatever got the deer and one calf. He also said a cat will tend to cover up their kill but it's not un-heard of them not to especially if the animal is left in tall grass which these two were.

Been searching on the ATV all over the pasture the cattle are on now and still can't find the other calf, guess it got drug off or covered good. Rough Ozark terrain is making the search tough, it's mostly all open pasture but there is just enough scattered timber and dry creek beds to make the search for one of the calves like looking for a needle in a haystack.

Conservation guy said hopefully another kill won't happen but if it does I need to call him ASAP.

One neighbor I spoke with swore he saw a mountain lion within the last 3 weeks. He's about 5 miles west of me. His son has seen one before in the area as well but said it's been about 2 years and while deer hunting.

Guess I learned a lesson the hard way about doing daily or at least 3 times a week herd checks. I'm bad about not going out but once or sometimes twice a week to check cattle. Just never had a problem like this before.

J

 

[sidney411]

SF - around here coyotes are not only seen lone they are seen in packs. I have seen up to 3 coyotes traveling together at a time. There were 2 females and a male in that group. They unfortunately didn't make it across the pasture.

 

[SF]

SF - around here coyotes are not only seen lone they are seen in packs. I have seen up to 3 coyotes traveling together at a time. There were 2 females and a male in that group. They unfortunately didn't make it across the pasture.

You sure they were coyotes and not crossbreds or hybrids. There are lots of coyote x dogs, and coyotes x red wolves. I'm not a wildlife expert, but all of them I've ever spoken with have told me that coyotes are loners. They don't hunt in packs. You will see a female with her pups, and sometimes a male with a female, but not formed packs for hunting. Coyotes generally seek out smaller game than calves or deer. Usually rabbits, rodents, etc... They are also great scavengers. Coyotes get the blame for lots of the hybrid, crossbred, and dog kills.

A 2 month old calf is not going to just hang around for a coyote or any other animal. I hear these stories all the time too. I've seen coyotes eating dead calves before, or try to get a new born from a cow that is a lousy mother. But these were 2 month old calves, that can get across a pasture in a hurry. JMO

 

[Dave]

One of my neighbors had a young bear chasing a bunch of 5 weight calves around the field last week. She said it was probably a two year old because it only weighed about 100 pounds or so. It didn't come close to catching any of the calves. She wasn't even sure that it was trying to catch them. He might have been plying with them. But if he tries it again she said she will be ready and it will be his last time.
Dave

 

[msscamp]

SF - around here coyotes are not only seen lone they are seen in packs. I have seen up to 3 coyotes traveling together at a time. There were 2 females and a male in that group. They unfortunately didn't make it across the pasture.

You sure they were coyotes and not crossbreds or hybrids. There are lots of coyote x dogs, and coyotes x red wolves. I'm not a wildlife expert, but all of them I've ever spoken with have told me that coyotes are loners. They don't hunt in packs. You will see a female with her pups, and sometimes a male with a female, but not formed packs for hunting. Coyotes generally seek out smaller game than calves or deer. Usually rabbits, rodents, etc... They are also great scavengers. Coyotes get the blame for lots of the hybrid, crossbred, and dog kills.

A 2 month old calf is not going to just hang around for a coyote or any other animal. I hear these stories all the time too. I've seen coyotes eating dead calves before, or try to get a new born from a cow that is a lousy mother. But these were 2 month old calves, that can get across a pasture in a hurry. JMO

I would sure appreciate it if you would tell that to the cows that I KNOW lost calves to coyotes. I have also been out checking cows many a time and put the skids to a coyotes intended choice for dinner. And yes, I know they were coyotes because I SAW them!