cow longevity

[angusdave63]

i have been wondering it may just be me or did the cows we had 20 or 30 years ago hold up better than the cows we have today are we to busy chasing growth and type and overlooking some very important traits my oldest cow is a 12 year old herfy and i sold a bwf 15 year old this spring but most of them are 6 or under and i mean about 90 percent under 6 what bulls would a guy use to inprove this i bought a red poll this spring really like him but not everyone would like that breed but herfy or angus or gelbveih simmi whatever breed you would like to comment on David

 

[Isomade]

I don't know where you are located Dave, but in the south we use a little brimmer influence in our cattle. A little brimmer goes a long way on cow longevity, their teeth outlast the cow sometimes.

 

[angusdave63]

i am in indiana mostly angus country here

 

[RD-Sam]

Maybe look at some of the angus AI sires that are still producing, there are plenty that are 10+ years of age, it might be a good start. There have been several that didn't make it very long, certainly not something I would use.

 

[user1]

If you are meeting your breeding goals of course longevity is thrown out the window.

 

[1wlimo]

Is it that longevity has been lost in breeding that cows or is it that we are now feeding cows differently and they can ot cope as well on the different feed?

I say this because the herd I have been looking after was aimed at bull sales. The heifers selected for WW, YW, etc and on a silage based winter diet a poor reprductive performance and poor calf growth due to low milk, and a high cull rate. Last winter no silage, just hay and green feed and an overall better performance, much improved milk and calf growth.

Simularly in dairy when a high grain diet was fed they burnt out cows very rapidly, compared to herds with a high forage intake.

I am willing to acept my thoughts on this a wrong, just a thought.

 

[cbcr]

I think that with many producers they are looking at EPD numbers and forgetting about the factory and structural soundness.

This also happened in the dairy industry. Producers were looking at strictly the numbers and not taking any traits into consideration. What ended up happening was that while the cows may have produced milk, they couldn't hold up structurally, and so they didn't last. It costs TOO much to raise replacements, and if they don't last in the herd very long that is pretty costly.

While EPD's are important, other traits have to be considered in order to be able to have cows that can last.

 

[TexasBred]

Is it that longevity has been lost in breeding that cows or is it that we are now feeding cows differently and they can ot cope as well on the different feed?

I say this because the herd I have been looking after was aimed at bull sales. The heifers selected for WW, YW, etc and on a silage based winter diet a poor reprductive performance and poor calf growth due to low milk, and a high cull rate. Last winter no silage, just hay and green feed and an overall better performance, much improved milk and calf growth.

Simularly in dairy when a high grain diet was fed they burnt out cows very rapidly, compared to herds with a high forage intake.

I am willing to acept my thoughts on this a wrong, just a thought.

What were you feeding the 2nd winter that was "green" that time of the year?????? As for dairy, a well balanced diet including grain and a source of high quality roughage should have no adverse affects on the cow especially milk production. Must more is expected of a cow these days than was often the case in the past. Those that don't produce are culled and usually end up as hamburger. In the past one that didn't produce often got a 2nd or 3rd chance.

 

[1wlimo]

Is it that longevity has been lost in breeding that cows or is it that we are now feeding cows differently and they can ot cope as well on the different feed?

I say this because the herd I have been looking after was aimed at bull sales. The heifers selected for WW, YW, etc and on a silage based winter diet a poor reprductive performance and poor calf growth due to low milk, and a high cull rate. Last winter no silage, just hay and green feed and an overall better performance, much improved milk and calf growth.

Simularly in dairy when a high grain diet was fed they burnt out cows very rapidly, compared to herds with a high forage intake.

I am willing to acept my thoughts on this a wrong, just a thought.

What were you feeding the 2nd winter that was "green" that time of the year?????? As for dairy, a well balanced diet including grain and a source of high quality roughage should have no adverse affects on the cow especially milk production. Must more is expected of a cow these days than was often the case in the past. Those that don't produce are culled and usually end up as hamburger. In the past one that didn't produce often got a 2nd or 3rd chance.

"Green feed" is Barley or Oat Hay

Some dairy diets were far from balanced at peak lactation,

I would have said that the silage was the better feed, my cows did not seem to perform the way I would have expected.
Also as humans in the west with life expecancy falling due to our diet and the health issues arrising from it, are we a good judge?

 

[TexasBred]

"Green feed" is Barley or Oat Hay

Some dairy diets were far from balanced at peak lactation,

I would have said that the silage was the better feed, my cows did not seem to perform the way I would have expected.
Also as humans in the west with life expecancy falling due to our diet and the health issues arrising from it, are we a good judge?

Of what??

If the dairy diets were not properly balanced then that was a management problem. As for silage, results depend on quality like anything else. Silage typically it not that high in protein but should contain enough grain to have good energy content. Maybe the quality of the hay was much better than the quality of the silage.

As for life expectancies and diets being the primary cause I have no idea. The world and the folks in it arer in constant change and certainly are much different than even 20 years ago...Maybe in our case it's not so much what we eat but "how much" we eat. ;-)

Oldest cow I've had is still alive at 16 and just had 14th calf in April. Had a good number 8-10 years olds still in excellent health, body condition and raised great calves. Sold them all to another breeder in March. Unless something unexpected happens I'd expect them all to be producing another 6-8 years as well.

 

[houstoncutter]

I know their will be many that will disagree with me, but here goes....I think a smater way to raise cattle would be to get those calves to 400 pounds, and then get them off there mommas....A lot easier on your cows, bulls...and yes even the calves.....you can run more head per acre and your cows will last longer.

 

[DOC HARRIS]

I know their will be many that will disagree with me, but here goes....I think a smater way to raise cattle would be to get those calves to 400 pounds, and then get them off there mommas....A lot easier on your cows, bulls...and yes even the calves.....you can run more head per acre and your cows will last longer.

The philosophy of "early weaning" has been propounded in Beef Cattle articles for some time. I think that it may work for many producers if their general management protocols are balanced with other necessary feed and growth requirements. A similar argument may be extended for selected early creep feeding choices. A lot of positive results may be achieved with sensible management techniques.

DOC HARRIS

 

[dun]

We retained a lot of heifers the last 2 years and that brought our avg age to 5.5. Most of the others are 7-11 and one at 24. About half of the cows are 6 and 7 year olds

 

[Brandonm22]

Forage management probably plays a bigger role in longevity than genetics. If you can keep plenty of grass/hay in front of the cow 12 months a year every year you are going to have less changes in body condition, the calves will get more of their nutrition hustling on their own rather than relying on moma. She doesn't have to wear herself out hiking miles to find grass/water and you aren't stressing her rumen by going from forage to grain back to forage back to grain and you don't have cows getting overconditioned like they can on grain. I am not saying that genetics have not changed for the worse, but I think you can get a bigger improvement by management changes than from genetic changes.

 

[vclavin]

A friend of ours had a 19 year old cow (registered Black angus from sydenstricker herd) produce her 18th calf. I bought this heifer due to longevity... unfortunately.. she would not breed. Maybe older cows have problems getting those heifers built correctly-lol. We just sold a 1999 red angus cross cow to a cousin just out of high school. Vet said she was 8 years old....got good teeth for a few more years. I have way to many females now, so we are going to have to start selling off the oldest girls.. except for a couple, exceptional ladies,... technically, the younger girls should be better than their dams - if I did my job properly and nature cooperated.
Valerie
Valerie

 

[ANAZAZI]

Hey valerie, in the younger ages groups there are many individuals left, and the older ages group have been culled for all important traits for many years. This fact indicates that the old cattle may be far better than the young!

 

[ANAZAZI]

The more young cows one have,the more replacement heifers one need.
And the more old cows one have, the less need for replacement.
Only because a serious culling should take place after their first and second calves.

 

[TexasBred]

I know their will be many that will disagree with me, but here goes....I think a smater way to raise cattle would be to get those calves to 400 pounds, and then get them off there mommas....A lot easier on your cows, bulls...and yes even the calves.....you can run more head per acre and your cows will last longer.

HC I agree 100% for the same reason and as CB put it in another post they'll bring just about the same dollars as a much larger animal.

 

[Stocker Steve]

I had some older, bigger, cows on the cull list, but they are all raising a calf. Good for them. Some of my top young cows are having issues but not the old girls.
I have been both buying and retaining heifers and it is a real mixed bag. One had dead twins, two had dumb calves, one is a poor mother, one does not respect fences, and so on... Good thing cull prices are up :banana: , but I am having second thoughts on buying bred heifers.
I winter my mostly wf replacements on the cow while being fed cow hay. They usually take off when they hit grass. No pampering here.

Terry Gompert cautioned me about culling cows with lighter calves because they may be my most efficient producers. I think he is right. So if your young cows are not lasting it may be a selection issue I know I have made a couple mistakes.

 

[SRBeef]

Forage management probably plays a bigger role in longevity than genetics. If you can keep plenty of grass/hay in front of the cow 12 months a year every year you are going to have less changes in body condition, the calves will get more of their nutrition hustling on their own rather than relying on moma. She doesn't have to wear herself out hiking miles to find grass/water and you aren't stressing her rumen by going from forage to grain back to forage back to grain and you don't have cows getting overconditioned like they can on grain. I am not saying that genetics have not changed for the worse, but I think you can get a bigger improvement by management changes than from genetic changes.

while I have had cattle for only about 5 years now I do see where Brandon's post above jives with what I see so far.

Keeping a uniform condition on cows and weaning at about 205 days consistently with consistent hay/forage, mineral and water just has to help extend cow longevity. They also breed back easily and produce a good calf every year.

I also agree with Steve in that I am about done buying bred heifers. Seems like that's about like going to a casino and I am not a gambler. Better the devil you know. U070 and his predecessor T021 seem to have made some good home grown heifers and cows from cows I know something about. The ornery, large, poor milking or open ones have been culled.

Jim