cow longevity

[angusdave63]

I agree with jim on the heifers deal as well, i will even take it a step farther and say that part of my bulls from now on will be home raised. I bought a red poll bull this spring that i am very pleased with, but before i bought him i was burned on 2 angus bulls. From what i feel now were not good cattle breeders. I AI'd a couple cows i knew alot about and ended up with a very nice heifer and a better bull than i was able to purchase so i guess maybe if i breed my own at least i will know what i have David

 

[Stocker Steve]

I think if you carefully AIed a couple of YOUR top cows, it will be hard to beat the resulting bull calf.
I know a lot of folks who selling $4,000 bulls, but they are usually raised in a loafing shed and fed by a TMR...

 

[angusdave63]

the hardest part about is AI is all the good sires to use. As far a longevity goes i think the red poll bull on the angus cows will help, as well as some of the things some of the others mentioned.

 

[Gators Rule]

The more young cows one have,the more replacement heifers one need.
And the more old cows one have, the less need for replacement.
Only because a serious culling should take place after their first and second calves.

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

 

[Stocker Steve]

The more young cows one have,the more replacement heifers one need.
And the more old cows one have, the less need for replacement.
Only because a serious culling should take place after their first and second calves.

What is "a serious culling"?

 

[Isomade]

The more young cows one have,the more replacement heifers one need.
And the more old cows one have, the less need for replacement.
Only because a serious culling should take place after their first and second calves.

What is "a serious culling"?

Steve it is the same as a regular culling, but there is no joking involved. You are not even allowed to smile when you pick up the check at the sale barn. I am surprised you haven't heard of this technique, it can really increase profits.

 

[Stocker Steve]

I am going to have to work on this serious culling stuff. I did not realize it was a big profit maker. I thought it might be what happens when I load out the wifes favorite free loading cow. ;-)

 

[pdfangus]

Forage management probably plays a bigger role in longevity than genetics. If you can keep plenty of grass/hay in front of the cow 12 months a year every year you are going to have less changes in body condition, the calves will get more of their nutrition hustling on their own rather than relying on moma. She doesn't have to wear herself out hiking miles to find grass/water and you aren't stressing her rumen by going from forage to grain back to forage back to grain and you don't have cows getting overconditioned like they can on grain. I am not saying that genetics have not changed for the worse, but I think you can get a bigger improvement by management changes than from genetic changes.

this is wisdom.......
far too many folks are overstocked and create the stress for the cattle and the cattleman.

 

[vclavin]

Forage management probably plays a bigger role in longevity than genetics. If you can keep plenty of grass/hay in front of the cow 12 months a year every year you are going to have less changes in body condition, the calves will get more of their nutrition hustling on their own rather than relying on moma. She doesn't have to wear herself out hiking miles to find grass/water and you aren't stressing her rumen by going from forage to grain back to forage back to grain and you don't have cows getting overconditioned like they can on grain. I am not saying that genetics have not changed for the worse, but I think you can get a bigger improvement by management changes than from genetic changes.

Shouldn't it be more matching genetic changes to compliment the management?

Valerie

 

[pdfangus]

Forage management probably plays a bigger role in longevity than genetics. If you can keep plenty of grass/hay in front of the cow 12 months a year every year you are going to have less changes in body condition, the calves will get more of their nutrition hustling on their own rather than relying on moma. She doesn't have to wear herself out hiking miles to find grass/water and you aren't stressing her rumen by going from forage to grain back to forage back to grain and you don't have cows getting overconditioned like they can on grain. I am not saying that genetics have not changed for the worse, but I think you can get a bigger improvement by management changes than from genetic changes.

Shouldn't it be more matching genetic changes to compliment the management?

Valerie

Given time the livestock will adapt to the managment and the environment as long as it is consistent.
this is assuming you keep your own replacements and select the ones that are sucessful in the managment and the environment.

If the managment strategy is to go to the sale barn and reload every couple of years then expect the status quo or less.

to match genetic change to managment one first must have a clear understanding of their management and environment. they must understand the advantages and the limitations of the environment they create. what genetic factors are needed to enhance performance within the environment.

while flexibility is a key to surviving in livestock agriculture, one must not lose sight of the goals and strategies of how to achieve the goals. Consistency and time are what it takes to develop a functional herd of cattle.

 

[cbcr]

Given time the livestock will adapt to the managment and the environment as long as it is consistent.
this is assuming you keep your own replacements and select the ones that are sucessful in the managment and the environment.

If the managment strategy is to go to the sale barn and reload every couple of years then expect the status quo or less.

to match genetic change to managment one first must have a clear understanding of their management and environment. they must understand the advantages and the limitations of the environment they create. what genetic factors are needed to enhance performance within the environment.

while flexibility is a key to surviving in livestock agriculture, one must not lose sight of the goals and strategies of how to achieve the goals. Consistency and time are what it takes to develop a functional herd of cattle.

Couldn't have said it any better.

 

[vclavin]

I agree with what you say, but, I'd like to add a good herdsman is not afraid to get input from other knowledgeable sources such as beef specialists, geneticists, association departments who deal with these issues, and of course these boards where cattleman share their experiences and expertise. You must be willng to get help with what you Don't understand. Sometimes and outsider can give you insights about your herd that you missed.
Valerie

 

[1wlimo]

I agree with what you say, but, I'd like to add a good herdsman is not afraid to get input from other knowledgeable sources such as beef specialists, geneticists, association departments who deal with these issues, and of course these boards where cattleman share their experiences and expertise. You must be willng to get help with what you Don't understand. Sometimes and outsider can give you insights about your herd that you missed.
Valerie

Very true,

even an outsider who knows very little about your operation, or even beef may just have that insight that helps if you listen. A fersh pair of eyes and mind is always useful.

My Grandfather said "we always need to be learning" and "there is always sombody doing it better than we do"

 

[Isomade]

Given time the livestock will adapt to the managment and the environment as long as it is consistent.
this is assuming you keep your own replacements and select the ones that are sucessful in the managment and the environment.

If the managment strategy is to go to the sale barn and reload every couple of years then expect the status quo or less.

to match genetic change to managment one first must have a clear understanding of their management and environment. they must understand the advantages and the limitations of the environment they create. what genetic factors are needed to enhance performance within the environment.

while flexibility is a key to surviving in livestock agriculture, one must not lose sight of the goals and strategies of how to achieve the goals. Consistency and time are what it takes to develop a
functional herd of cattle.
:clap: I agree!
If you buy cows who were raised with different grass, mineral, water, and an overall management practice it can take two years before you realize that cows full potential while her body adjusts. If you aren't consistent in your own management you may never realize her potential. I have learned the hard way that this is one component not figured in when one is making the decision to "buy or raise their own replacement heifers."

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

I find that to be completely true. Whenever we purchase open or bred heifers, we have to pencil in the fact that they are not going to be as fertile or productive as the rest of the herd for the first 2 years here until they "adapt". Actually, open heifers adapt quicker than breds.

 

[1wlimo]

I find that to be completely true. Whenever we purchase open or bred heifers, we have to pencil in the fact that they are not going to be as fertile or productive as the rest of the herd for the first 2 years here until they "adapt". Actually, open heifers adapt quicker than breds.

How does the statment "always more stock for a relativly harsh enviroment to a milder one" standup against the time and ability to "adapt"

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

I find that to be completely true. Whenever we purchase open or bred heifers, we have to pencil in the fact that they are not going to be as fertile or productive as the rest of the herd for the first 2 years here until they "adapt". Actually, open heifers adapt quicker than breds.

How does the statment "always more stock for a relativly harsh enviroment to a milder one" standup against the time and ability to "adapt"

I'm not sure what you are asking?
I would say it would take longer to get cattle adjusted to a harsh environment than a milder one - that would be logical. But all situations can and may be different. You take one of my long, thick haired cow and stick her in the South, and she is going to have a problem.

 

[1wlimo]

I find that to be completely true. Whenever we purchase open or bred heifers, we have to pencil in the fact that they are not going to be as fertile or productive as the rest of the herd for the first 2 years here until they "adapt". Actually, open heifers adapt quicker than breds.

How does the statment "always more stock for a relativly harsh enviroment to a milder one" standup against the time and ability to "adapt"

I'm not sure what you are asking?
I would say it would take longer to get cattle adjusted to a harsh environment than a milder one - that would be logical. But all situations can and may be different. You take one of my long, thick haired cow and stick her in the South, and she is going to have a problem.

"relative" was the key word I was trying to use.

So is there an advantage to buying say your replacment heifers from say where it is -40 and they have a 220 day winter and moving them to somewhere where the winter is only -20 and 180 days for example. Compare to buying from the farm next door who has the same enviroment as you.

 

[pdfangus]

I agree with what you say, but, I'd like to add a good herdsman is not afraid to get input from other knowledgeable sources such as beef specialists, geneticists, association departments who deal with these issues, and of course these boards where cattleman share their experiences and expertise. You must be willng to get help with what you Don't understand. Sometimes and outsider can give you insights about your herd that you missed.
Valerie

absolutley......
but you can not go off chasing every fad or all the latest wisdom from the latest expert and continuously change the operational goals.
sometimes this is hard to resist. I have made mistakes in this regard myself in my wild and impetuous middle age. fortunately I had a pretty fixed set of environmental constraints to keep me grounded. In my old age I have found new tools to assist me in better managing that environment with less inputs.
the hardest thing for us to do was to find a correct stocking rate for the operation. In our area it is due to the extreme variety of weather patterns. If we stock for a good year then most years we are way over stocked. If we stock for a hard year then most years we are understocked. I have yet to be able to define a normal year. but I did determine a target number of cattle that was about mid way and manage the grass and other inputs around that stocking rate.

 

[Stocker Steve]

Save calves and run them on grass in the good years...
Sell calves early on the bad years...