Cow Genetics
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Just an update on the Charlo calves, we have 7 on the ground and have worked them several times. All are pretty easy to get along with so I don't know if I agree with the docility number.
gizmom
gizmom
SJB
Well-known member
City Guy":9cslz3ik said:
You have first hand knowledge, or is that from reading it somewhere?
OP
OP
WarEagle73
Well-known member
Since this thread got brought back to life I can give an update. Of the heifer calves pictured above, only one is pregnant. The one in the last picture died about 30 days after we AI'ed her. The calf in the first picture was confirmed pregnant to AI at about 60 days, but we rechecked at 110 days and she was open. I'm going to have her rechecked one more time before I ship her.
We have 4 AI sired heifers that are about to wean. 2 of them are out of Connealy Consensus 7229 which I am pretty happy about. Our preg checks this year say we should have 10-11 more AI sired calves coming in the next calf crop. Doesn't sound like much, but we will only calve 30 total next year.
This year we went back and AI'ed using Connealy Consensus 7229, Rito 6EM3 of 4L1 Emblazon, and a Hereford bull KCF BENNETT 9126J R294. Hopefully they will take us in the direction we want to go. Big middled type cows with moderate frame and milk that can raise good calves on grass. The Angus bulls I feel good about. The hereford I think will do fine. The other thing I like on these bulls is the carcass merit. 6EM3 could have better Marbling, but the others are pretty solid. RITO REVENUE 5M2 OF 2536 PRE is a bull I am thinking about trading in for 6EM3 next year. Still top $EN and moderate frame, but better Marbling. I don't just love the way he looks, but he isn't terrible.
We have 4 AI sired heifers that are about to wean. 2 of them are out of Connealy Consensus 7229 which I am pretty happy about. Our preg checks this year say we should have 10-11 more AI sired calves coming in the next calf crop. Doesn't sound like much, but we will only calve 30 total next year.
This year we went back and AI'ed using Connealy Consensus 7229, Rito 6EM3 of 4L1 Emblazon, and a Hereford bull KCF BENNETT 9126J R294. Hopefully they will take us in the direction we want to go. Big middled type cows with moderate frame and milk that can raise good calves on grass. The Angus bulls I feel good about. The hereford I think will do fine. The other thing I like on these bulls is the carcass merit. 6EM3 could have better Marbling, but the others are pretty solid. RITO REVENUE 5M2 OF 2536 PRE is a bull I am thinking about trading in for 6EM3 next year. Still top $EN and moderate frame, but better Marbling. I don't just love the way he looks, but he isn't terrible.
SJB; Fair question. All I know about these animals I learned by critiquing their pics and videos and by examining EPDs. I have talked to Rick Calvo on the phone. I figure that with so many breeders over such a large continent, looking at pictures and studying EPDs is the way most folks would start the winnowing process.
WarEagle73":3astpufw said:
Not sure what Herefords do good on fescue as I've never had any experience with it. If it was me I would contact some breeders in areas that have fescue. One herd that has good, well muscled Herefords with older bloodlines is the Deewall's. Go to their web page and look at their cattle especially "Doc". They are linebred and perform well. But not sure if they have ever been in a fescue environment. But if you contacted them they would tell you.
Ky hills
Well-known member
elkwc":20ncmdxm said:
I don't know what bloodlines they are, but I have some commercial Herefords that are doing pretty good on our fescue pastures, so I am sure there are quite a few around bred in that kind of environment.
Again, my observations about Herefords just from reading, pics, videos and EPD as well as philosophy I would look at Moffett and Ellis in Illinois and Gerber in Indiana. I have visited Moffett Farm and observed the cattle and talked with Larry-third generation Polled Hereford breeder.
Supa Dexta
Well-known member
You should keep your mouth shut on promoting animals and farms you have zero history with. Its the same as you telling me what truck to get because you read the website and visited the salesman at the dealer, but never even took a test drive.
You just like to make your opinions known; opinions that are built on zero real world experience.
You just like to make your opinions known; opinions that are built on zero real world experience.
Herefords will do fine on fescue pastures if they've been acclimated to it. We have some high percentage fescue pastures and from what I've seen the genetics are less an issue than the environment they were raised in. For example we have a number of Trust 100w cows, most were raised on fescue and they do extremely well, never losing condition and weaning good sized calves. The ones that were not raised on fescue went through a period of poor performance when we brought them in, they lost condition and weaned a below average calf that year. Now, they're all doing well. It's anecdotal, but we've brought in a wide variety of genetics in the last five years while trying to expand our program and I'm unable to pinpoint any lines that perform worse on fescue than others and for the 80 years prior to this where we were purely commercial we never had any problems with our fescue as long as the animals were raised on it.
Conventional wisdom says to use a bull developed in your area or one similar to yours to maximize environmental adaptation. That's always the safest course, but I think you can afford to prioritize other things over a theoretical genetic endophyte tolerance. If your cows were raised on fescue pastures and you raise their calves on them, those calves will do fine.
I think R294 was a good choice and I think EFBEEF SCHU-LAR PROFICIENT N093 is another Hereford option for you if you're trying to raise replacements that will wean calves at a high percentage of body weight. I don't particularly care for his steers but his daughters can raise a hell of a calf and they're built a lot like your cows.
Conventional wisdom says to use a bull developed in your area or one similar to yours to maximize environmental adaptation. That's always the safest course, but I think you can afford to prioritize other things over a theoretical genetic endophyte tolerance. If your cows were raised on fescue pastures and you raise their calves on them, those calves will do fine.
I think R294 was a good choice and I think EFBEEF SCHU-LAR PROFICIENT N093 is another Hereford option for you if you're trying to raise replacements that will wean calves at a high percentage of body weight. I don't particularly care for his steers but his daughters can raise a hell of a calf and they're built a lot like your cows.
OP
OP
WarEagle73
Well-known member
Just updating an old thread. We had 11 AI calves from Rito 6EM3 of 4L1 Emblazon (5), Connealy Consensus 7229 (2), and KCF BENNETT 9126J R294 (4), as well as 8 calves out our clean up bull AU Prototype 442 (an OCC Prototype son). I'll post some pictures of each group. Overall the 6EM3s were the most impressive group with the R294s and Prototypes right behind. I am probably going to stop using 7229, as those calves just haven't kept up and two heifers we raised last year out of him both came up open after one shot AI and 5 months with the clean up bull.
Of the sire groups, we have 2 heifers of each AI and 3 or 4 out of Prototype. Those will get one chance AI and the AI-sired heifers will get a short breeding season with the clean up bull. All of the steers and the heifers that come up open will go to the feedyard and I will have carcass data to report back on those calves in roughly 12 months.
Rito 6EM3 of 4L1 Emblazon
6EM3Nicest (and heaviest) heifer this year is a 6EM3 out of a 3 year old cow. To me she is as close to perfect as we have ever made. I'm really excited to see how she develops. She was also the 2nd heaviest calf in the herd behind the steer below on the left.
Nicest(and heaviest) heifer this year is a 6EM3 out of a 3 year old cow. To me she is as close to perfect as we have ever made. I'm really excited to see how she develops. She was also the 2nd heaviest calf in the herd behind the steer above on the left.
I think we are going to use MUCH more 6EM3 next year. Everything I hear from the Angus breeders I know is that the females are some of the best on the farm. Moderate and easy fleshing, but always weaning one of the heaviest calves.
Connealy Consensus 7229
Our two 7229 heifers. Good calves, but I like the 6EM3s better. No need for 2 Angus bulls in our small herd.
Of the sire groups, we have 2 heifers of each AI and 3 or 4 out of Prototype. Those will get one chance AI and the AI-sired heifers will get a short breeding season with the clean up bull. All of the steers and the heifers that come up open will go to the feedyard and I will have carcass data to report back on those calves in roughly 12 months.
Rito 6EM3 of 4L1 Emblazon
6EM3Nicest (and heaviest) heifer this year is a 6EM3 out of a 3 year old cow. To me she is as close to perfect as we have ever made. I'm really excited to see how she develops. She was also the 2nd heaviest calf in the herd behind the steer below on the left.
Nicest(and heaviest) heifer this year is a 6EM3 out of a 3 year old cow. To me she is as close to perfect as we have ever made. I'm really excited to see how she develops. She was also the 2nd heaviest calf in the herd behind the steer above on the left.
I think we are going to use MUCH more 6EM3 next year. Everything I hear from the Angus breeders I know is that the females are some of the best on the farm. Moderate and easy fleshing, but always weaning one of the heaviest calves.
Connealy Consensus 7229
Our two 7229 heifers. Good calves, but I like the 6EM3s better. No need for 2 Angus bulls in our small herd.
OP
OP
WarEagle73
Well-known member
KCF Bennett 9126J R294
I really like this group of calves. They are a little more leggy than I was expecting, though. We will see how the two heifers do.
AU Prototype 442
These are three of the best steers. They weighed right up with anything we have ever weaned before, even though those OCC genetics aren't known for crazy growth. Good call by ALACOWMAN :nod: I really want to see how these guys perform on in the yard and on the rail.
I really like this group of calves. They are a little more leggy than I was expecting, though. We will see how the two heifers do.
AU Prototype 442
These are three of the best steers. They weighed right up with anything we have ever weaned before, even though those OCC genetics aren't known for crazy growth. Good call by ALACOWMAN :nod: I really want to see how these guys perform on in the yard and on the rail.
Really like the 442 steers. I have had the chance to purchase a few 6EM3 sons and for some reason they never tripped my trigger. But after seeing your heifer and looking at the bull in pics I will look at them closer next time. Have only seen one heifer out of him but several sons.
I really like the 6EM3 heifer, and the OCC calves.the Bennett calves look ok not as deep as the others but they sure are long. Keep up posted on how they work in the feedyard and on the rail. We were at OCC a little over a week ago and he has a young bull Zodiak that is sure good. I will be getting more info on him, I don't have EPD's or registration number as yet, but phenotypically he is as good as I have seen anywhere. We will be at Larry Colemans this week he has a few Bulls I really want to look at as well. What Angus Bulls will you be using this year?
Gizmom
Gizmom
Post Oak
Well-known member
I had a bull that was a Prototype son before my current bull. He threw very small calves that grew fairly decent. One problem that I see is that your Prototype bull is M1c (double muscling defect genetic carrier). I like the OCC Paxton sired bull that have now. He would be Coleman Charlo's half brother. His calves are about as small as the calves from the Prototype bull, but they have better growth. I am glad to see that I have fellow Southerners like Gizmom, War Eagle73, and Alacowman using Ohlde genetics.WarEagle73":2nfpz965 said:Just updating an old thread. We had 11 AI calves from Rito 6EM3 of 4L1 Emblazon (5), Connealy Consensus 7229 (2), and KCF BENNETT 9126J R294 (4), as well as 8 calves out our clean up bull AU Prototype 442 (an OCC Prototype son). I'll post some pictures of each group. Overall the 6EM3s were the most impressive group with the R294s and Prototypes right behind. I am probably going to stop using 7229, as those calves just haven't kept up and two heifers we raised last year out of him both came up open after one shot AI and 5 months with the clean up bull.
Of the sire groups, we have 2 heifers of each AI and 3 or 4 out of Prototype. Those will get one chance AI and the AI-sired heifers will get a short breeding season with the clean up bull. All of the steers and the heifers that come up open will go to the feedyard and I will have carcass data to report back on those calves in roughly 12 months.
Rito 6EM3 of 4L1 Emblazon
6EM3Nicest (and heaviest) heifer this year is a 6EM3 out of a 3 year old cow. To me she is as close to perfect as we have ever made. I'm really excited to see how she develops. She was also the 2nd heaviest calf in the herd behind the steer below on the left.
Nicest(and heaviest) heifer this year is a 6EM3 out of a 3 year old cow. To me she is as close to perfect as we have ever made. I'm really excited to see how she develops. She was also the 2nd heaviest calf in the herd behind the steer above on the left.
I think we are going to use MUCH more 6EM3 next year. Everything I hear from the Angus breeders I know is that the females are some of the best on the farm. Moderate and easy fleshing, but always weaning one of the heaviest calves.
Connealy Consensus 7229
Our two 7229 heifers. Good calves, but I like the 6EM3s better. No need for 2 Angus bulls in our small herd.
OP
OP
WarEagle73
Well-known member
I went out to OCC as part of our farmers' federation beef tour last year. They had the Zodiac bull up in the barn for us to check out. I snapped a couple pictures of him. I thought he was pretty impressive myself! The only thing that keeps me from jumping on the OCC wagon a little more is their carcass numbers. I want to see some calves hang on the rail before I get more OCC genetics in the herd. I do plan on trying some Charlo this year though.gizmom":26aokwxf said:
Hey war eagle...I've been focused primarily on grass based maternal genetics for the past while. Fertility, efficiency, and longevity (which includes convenience traits), in that order. I direct market grass finished beef and sell seedstock and replacement heifers, both commercial and registered. To answer your original question, I have first hand experience with a few red angus programs. Jim Hudson, (Hudson Red Angus) my neighbor just down the road, has been breeding for low input, grass based red angus cattle for quite some time. Honing work that Roy Beeby, Beckton, Buffalo Creek and other breeders have done, selecting for the ones that will work in the hot south on our low energy grasses. He's quite a wealth of knowledge. Really small program, but a sharp breeder well outside the mainstream. I've bought seedstock from both Red Hill and Rick Calvo to start my Red Angus program. Both programs make their cattle work on grass, and develop bulls on high roughage rations. Very good cattle at both farms, but the red hill cattle match our environment better, so you have to be more selective at Rick's. REd Hill is selecting for fescue tolerance, if you have that...i'm below that line in the bahia belt. The thing to remember about AI'ing for maternal is, that you really need as much info on the lineage as possible before making a decision. Some of the most profitable cows you won't recognize until a few calving seasons in, and not certain until their teenagers. Yearling phenotype for maternal can be deceptive, early maturation is good, but not necessarily the biggest one in the bunch. (Sorry if i'm preaching to the choir) My environment down here doesn't always support the same cow as one that might get bred on time in the hard grasses of the west, especially out of herds that get everything they ever need. Feel free to PM me anytime. I also have a small herd of herefords that i'm enamored with...and a larger herd of registered Wye/Pinebank black cows, with a touch of Ohlde.
