Cow Genetics

[WarEagle73]

I've been looking ahead a bit to next year's breeding season. I took the jump and started tinkering with A.I. this year and had enough success that I want to keep trying. My goal is to use A.I. on the females I want to keep replacement heifers out of and clean up with a terminal bull. My question is about genetics.

Our direction is to have a cowherd that thrives on our fescue-based forage system with no supplemental feed. We've been practicing our version of MIG with good success for a couple of years now and we think we already have cows that fit the mold pretty well.

For the Angus breed I feel pretty good about my knowledge of genetics that will work. I am a fan of cattle like you see in Wye, Ohdle, and those type herds. Even some Pharo genetics as well as mainstream genetics that should work in a system like this. Other breeds, though, I am not as familiar with the genetics that fit that criteria. With Herefords you have Trask bloodlines still around, but who else? I feel pretty confident that there are lots of these breeders in the Red Angus breed and others, I just don't know of them.

Any thoughts on the topic would be greatly appreciated. We don't breed again until 2016, but I want to put together a game plan and starting hunting down semen in advance.

 

[WalnutCrest]

Lots of breeds will have cattle that will work for what you're looking for.

If you'd want to look at Aubrac, I'm probably your best resource for semen / embryos. I've posted lots of pictures here; if you have any questions or if there is anything I can do to help you, please reach out and LMK how I can help.

If you pick some other breed or herd, you should have lots to pick from. Good luck to you.

 

[Brand]

You should be looking ahead to 2016 do not feel out of the norm. My case maybe more aggressive I flushed two of my most proven better number cows of my own breeding. With the eggs in have already getting a baby bull calf ready to use on unborn calf replacements. Crazy right but I know what I have. Four generations of my own breeding, top epd cows with great phenotype. Could of waited on the bull calf but I thought it was a chance in a lifetime to own him.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

Don't be to disappointed when the Occ calves hit the ground. Their something we ain't use to seeing at first,but they come on... I'm really impressed with the length and depth. They are showing..

 

[Son of Butch]

Don't be to disappointed when the Occ calves hit the ground. Their something we ain't use to seeing at first,but they come on... I'm really impressed with the length and depth. They are showing..

Please expand on O C C comments. I'm interested in learning more, I eliminated Coleman Charlo an O C C Paxton son bcs of low doc score even though Larry Coleman once described Charlo calves as wide topped, loaded with power and the best calves on the ranch.
IF I were going to use a low doc score bull it would be a coin flip between Charlo and Connealy Capitalist.

 

[WarEagle73]

Don't be to disappointed when the Occ calves hit the ground. Their something we ain't use to seeing at first,but they come on... I'm really impressed with the length and depth. They are showing..

Please expand on O C C comments. I'm interested in learning more, I eliminated Coleman Charlo an O C C Paxton son bcs of low doc score even though Larry Coleman once described Charlo calves as wide topped, loaded with power and the best calves on the ranch.

I am pretty intrigued by Charlo. I like everything about him except the way he walks. I think I may use him on some framey females I have.

As far as minor breeds go, I like a lot of what those have to offer. Aubrac, British Whites, Murray Greys, Senepol, etc.. We have some half South Poll females that are outstanding so we will likely go that route for one leg of a three breed rotational cross system.

 

[Son of Butch]

I think Charlo walks better in the new video Accelerated Genetics put out after slimming him down a couple hundred pounds from the original video I think you are talking about.
We have a few 1/2 British White cows and I will say they are noticeably calmer when we work them than their herd mates.
RCL Farms Nitro is a full blood British White and a bull you should consider IF you are going to go the B.W. route.

 

[WalnutCrest]

Don't be to disappointed when the Occ calves hit the ground. Their something we ain't use to seeing at first,but they come on... I'm really impressed with the length and depth. They are showing..

Please expand on O C C comments. I'm interested in learning more, I eliminated Coleman Charlo an O C C Paxton son bcs of low doc score even though Larry Coleman once described Charlo calves as wide topped, loaded with power and the best calves on the ranch.

I am pretty intrigued by Charlo. I like everything about him except the way he walks. I think I may use him on some framey females I have.

As far as minor breeds go, I like a lot of what those have to offer. Aubrac, British Whites, Murray Greys, Senepol, etc.. We have some half South Poll females that are outstanding so we will likely go that route for one leg of a three breed rotational cross system.

I have a friend with South Poll cattle; they've always struck me as being well-conditioned and calm in a high-density, low-input system.

 

[HDRider]

Keep us posted on your decisions and results War Eagle. You are doing what I want to do when I grow up.

 

[gizmom]

We have used several OCC bulls so far my favorite is OCC Juneau 807J. We flushed our 807J cow to him only got bull calves but they are sure nice. We have used a son in our herd and will be using him again next breeding season.



He is Gizmo Juneau 1221

We have also used some OCC Missing Link 830M the cows we have in production are really nice deep with a ton of capacity and beautiful udders. I may have a photo but don't know where it is.

We have some OCC Paxton 730P jury is still out on these calves.



This is a picture of a Paxton calf out of a first calf heifer.

gizmom

 

[Lucky_P]

PM'ed you, but will throw this out here, as well.
Take a look at some of the Green Garden Angus sires... will give you high $EN, moderate frame size, low to breed average growth like the OCC & Wye bulls ... but likely significantly better marbling/ribeye/tenderness and better MCE than most of the OCC bulls I'd considered using in the past.
I REALLY like my Gardens Wave daughters...Nice little cows with good udders, that raise a good calf; wish I'd bought more semen on him while it was still available. Probably oughta get some more Next Wave HE17 for use at some point...though a couple of the major bull studs do have a couple of Wave sons in their offerings.

I may be starting to sound like a broken record, but we've been really pleased with Shorthorn-sired calves out of our 3/4AN-1/4SM cows.
'Commercial-oriented' programs, like Rob Sneed, Kaper Cattle Co., Dover Ranch, Waukaru, etc. probably have some sires that would fit in well with what you're trying to do.

 

[HDRider]

Is SM Simmental?

 

[Lucky_P]

Yes. SM=Simmental

 

[ALACOWMAN]

Don't be to disappointed when the Occ calves hit the ground. Their something we ain't use to seeing at first,but they come on... I'm really impressed with the length and depth. They are showing..

Please expand on O C C comments. I'm interested in learning more, I eliminated Coleman Charlo an O C C Paxton son bcs of low doc score even though Larry Coleman once described Charlo calves as wide topped, loaded with power and the best calves on the ranch.
IF I were going to use a low doc score bull it would be a coin flip between Charlo and Connealy Capitalist.

Well I'm just a commercial ham and egger..but unlike the mainstream angus, after the calves hit the ground you think their just going stagnate But all the while they are stretching out. Getting deep and thick...just a different animal I'm not use to.. :cowboy:

 

[WarEagle73]

Wanted to share some examples of what I have and want to reproduce. The first is a high percentage Angus female. She is probably 9-10 years old and looks to have a few good years left in her. The other two are Angus/South Poll cross females. Both 5 year olds. Fortunately all of them had heifers this year.





I feel good that I can find Angus genetics that will work: OCC, Wye, Green Gardens, and a few bulls from other programs.

Any ideas about Herefords? I have found a few bulls that are heavily Trask influenced, but they all have issues.Edisto 136 battle rupert t352 is a good example. He might be a bit too small and his eye set worries me. Other than that I really like the bull alot.

Red Angus? Pharo has a bull or two I'd be interested in using, but I am just not familiar with that breed at all. I like the idea of having more red females around. They seem to handle our summers better. The Shorthorns might fit this role pretty well.

Thanks for all the replies. I like hearing about what other folks are having success with around the country. No point in reinventing the wheel all the time.

 

[gizmom]

War Eagle

I don't know a thing about Hereford genetics, but I can tell you by looking at your calves you are sure enough on the right track. Nice calves.

gizmom

 

[Lucky_P]

Good looking calves.

To each his own...I was on the 'cows are too big' bandwagon for a couple of years... used a well-known 4-frame Angus bull ... and he 'downsized' 'em way too much; took away a lot of growth and performance at the same time, too. Sure glad I didn't go with some of those 2.5-3 frame bulls KP is pushing... much less a <2 frame Hereford. I think you can do better.

 

[WarEagle73]

Good looking calves.

To each his own...I was on the 'cows are too big' bandwagon for a couple of years... used a well-known 4-frame Angus bull ... and he 'downsized' 'em way too much; took away a lot of growth and performance at the same time, too. Sure glad I didn't go with some of those 2.5-3 frame bulls KP is pushing... much less a <2 frame Hereford. I think you can do better.

Agreed. I think there is some middle ground in there. I don't need anything that small running around my place. What I do like about him is his pedigree says he will make it on KY31 Fescue and he appears to have more pounds of muscle than a lot of the FS 6 bulls you see in some semen catalogs. I'd like to find an OCC-style Hereford to make a crossbred cow.

I want a cow that can wean at least 50% of her body weight. I really don't care how big or small that cow is. Those cows in those pictures are about 950-1100 pounds. I think that is about the right size. They have all weaned steers that I have backgrounded for 60 days and sold at 725-800 lbs. If I can do that on all of them I'll be more than happy. I have a couple of cows that will be in the 1300-1500 lbs. range and they have never been able to keep up with that 950 lb. baldie cow in our system. Unfortunately between those three cows I have had 1 heifer in the last 5 years. This year they all had heifers so I am pretty excited about building some cow families off those girls.

I'm looking for efficiency. I am not sold that small=efficient, but I do think there are more medium-small efficient cows running around than big efficient cows.

 

[WalnutCrest]

Pounds weaned per acre on limited inputs is the goal for the guy who wants to turn a profit in all weather and all markets. Keep an open mind about how you might best achieve that. Good luck to you.

 

[Post Oak]

Wanted to share some examples of what I have and want to reproduce. The first is a high percentage Angus female. She is probably 9-10 years old and looks to have a few good years left in her. The other two are Angus/South Poll cross females. Both 5 year olds. Fortunately all of them had heifers this year.





I feel good that I can find Angus genetics that will work: OCC, Wye, Green Gardens, and a few bulls from other programs.

Any ideas about Herefords? I have found a few bulls that are heavily Trask influenced, but they all have issues.Edisto 136 battle rupert t352 is a good example. He might be a bit too small and his eye set worries me. Other than that I really like the bull alot.

Red Angus? Pharo has a bull or two I'd be interested in using, but I am just not familiar with that breed at all. I like the idea of having more red females around. They seem to handle our summers better. The Shorthorns might fit this role pretty well.

Thanks for all the replies. I like hearing about what other folks are having success with around the country. No point in reinventing the wheel all the time.

There is a Hudson fella over in Georgia that probably raises the type Red Angus that you are looking for.