Cost of AI

[Cross breeder #1]

i have no idea how and have none of the gear to AI so how much money would it take to start? how difficult is it to learn?

 

[jscunn]

http://www.anguselist.com/volume0412/v0 ... dium=email

I know it is an ad, but the right hand column on drug and cost of AI tech is what we have been paying.. about $43 dollars a head divide that by percentage pregnant and you get how much it costs per pregnancy ~$60 (60% conception)

If you choose the right bull you should get an improvement in quality, choosing the right bull is where the arguing starts

 

[dun]

What you need to do it yourself is a tank, semen, gloves, lube, thermometer, paper towels, straw cutter, gun and sheaths plus AI school. Enasco used to have an AI kit that had everything except the tank, not sure if they still do. Tanks you can buy from Macon. Nitrogen for the tank will run you around 50-100 bucks a year depepnding on local costs. Semen is around 14 bucks to the skies the limit per unit.

 

[3waycross]

What you need to do it yourself is a tank, semen, gloves, lube, thermometer, paper towels, straw cutter, gun and sheaths plus AI school. Enasco used to have an AI kit that had everything except the tank, not sure if they still do. Tanks you can buy from Macon. Nitrogen for the tank will run you around 50-100 bucks a year depepnding on local costs. Semen is around 14 bucks to the skies the limit per unit.

You forgot the cost of the learning curve :cry2:

 

[Kathie in Thorp]

What you need to do it yourself is a tank, semen, gloves, lube, thermometer, paper towels, straw cutter, gun and sheaths plus AI school. Enasco used to have an AI kit that had everything except the tank, not sure if they still do. Tanks you can buy from Macon. Nitrogen for the tank will run you around 50-100 bucks a year depepnding on local costs. Semen is around 14 bucks to the skies the limit per unit.

You forgot the cost of the learning curve :cry2:

. . . which is considerable!

 

[Galloways1]

What you need to do it yourself is a tank, semen, gloves, lube, thermometer, paper towels, straw cutter, gun and sheaths plus AI school. Enasco used to have an AI kit that had everything except the tank, not sure if they still do. Tanks you can buy from Macon. Nitrogen for the tank will run you around 50-100 bucks a year depepnding on local costs. Semen is around 14 bucks to the skies the limit per unit.

You forgot the cost of the learning curve :cry2:

:clap: :clap:

 

[regolith]

I didn't have a learning curve :???: :???:
or maybe that means I've just never gotten any better, but probably a good enuf training should have that result.

The course is the most expensive. Purchase of inseminators, tank and case to keep the AI gear in can be a few hundred but it's a one-off. Doesn't cost much for gloves, lubes &c but semen, storage and delivery definitely adds up. Scariest thing this year was having 3.5 K worth of semen in the tank and an idiot walking around the farm.
Not difficult to learn if you can do it but it's taking the course that divides the population into the cans/can'ts - not everyone gets through the training.

 

[3waycross]

":1f7oeqy4]I didn't have a learning curve [/b]:???: :???:
or maybe that means I've just never gotten any better, but probably a good enuf training should have that result.

The course is the most expensive. Purchase of inseminators, tank and case to keep the AI gear in can be a few hundred but it's a one-off. Doesn't cost much for gloves, lubes &c but semen, storage and delivery definitely adds up. Scariest thing this year was having 3.5 K worth of semen in the tank and an idiot walking around the farm.
Not difficult to learn if you can do it but it's taking the course that divides the population into the cans/can'ts - not everyone gets through the training.

Really Rego? you were not better the second year and the third year. Your success ratio has not improved since you got out of AI school? You do not continue to improve every year. That's pretty amazing.

I have been doing my job for 30yrs and I still fell like I learn something new almost every day and try to use it to improve myself as a result.

 

[dun]

":18mubzlq]I didn't have a learning curve [/b]:???: :???:
or maybe that means I've just never gotten any better, but probably a good enuf training should have that result.

The course is the most expensive. Purchase of inseminators, tank and case to keep the AI gear in can be a few hundred but it's a one-off. Doesn't cost much for gloves, lubes &c but semen, storage and delivery definitely adds up. Scariest thing this year was having 3.5 K worth of semen in the tank and an idiot walking around the farm.
Not difficult to learn if you can do it but it's taking the course that divides the population into the cans/can'ts - not everyone gets through the training.

Really Rego? you were not better the second year and the third year. Your success ratio has not improved since you got out of AI school? You do not continue to improve every year. That's pretty amazing.

I have been doing my job for 30yrs and I still fell like I learn something new almost every day and try to use it to improve myself as a result.

When I graduated from the school I started breeding customer cows the next day. I doubt that my success got more then a percentage point or 2 better through the years. I was lucky in as much as I took to it just like the bull does, seemed natural to me.

 

[cow pollinater]

The first time I went to an AI school I was the instructor. The hard part was teaching everyone the proper way to do stuff instead of how I do it. :lol:
Just about anyone can learn to pass a cow. It's no more difficult than learning to drive. Some people get it right away and some people take a little longer. Even once they pass all the tests, some people still just aren't good drivers.
The part where you really decide who gets pregnant and who doesn't is heat detection... Very few people have a real knack for that. Anyone can dump semen in a flaming hot cow but the person that can spot the ones that aren't flaming hot will always get more cows pregnant. That's what my business thrives on.

Cross breeder, go to the butcher and tell him you want some reproductive tracts from both heifers and open cows and you can get just as much experiance as they're going to teach you in AI school.

 

[regolith]

Really Rego? you were not better the second year and the third year. Your success ratio has not improved since you got out of AI school? You do not continue to improve every year. That's pretty amazing.

I have been doing my job for 30yrs and I still fell like I learn something new almost every day and try to use it to improve myself as a result.

Like Dun, I don't vary more than a percent or two each year - up or down. Started with a conception rate 5% higher than the best techs I'd worked with and haven't got any better than that. Do feel a bit more competent though.

 

[cow pollinater]

Started with a conception rate 5% higher than the best techs I'd worked with .

We're in different worlds but my experiance is that dairymen and herdsmen get better conception rates but professional breeders consistantly get more cows pregnant in a shorter amount of time.
If you and I were to walk the same set of cows and you find ten to breed and I find twenty, I'll get the same conception as you on your ten plus pick up one or two on the extra ten. My conception rate would be lower because of the ten extra cows that I bred that weren't smoking hot but overall I got more cows pregnant. Conception rate is a only one aspect of getting cows pregnant. It's a worthless number unless we're able to put everything else in context. My conception rate is really nothing special but If you ask my customers, they'll likely tell you it's fantastic because I breed agressivly so that cows don't show up open. Sometimes I'm wrong but most often I'm right. When tons of cows show up pregnant, nobody looks at conception rates... They only see the good investment. :nod:
I guess what I'm saying is that if you're patting yourself on the back for your conception rates, maybe it's time to start seeing ALL of the hot cows.

 

[Kingfisher]

i have no idea how and have none of the gear to AI so how much money would it take to start? how difficult is it to learn?

There is a good article in this months the Cattleman called " Do's and Don'ts for Ai success."

 

[regolith]

Started with a conception rate 5% higher than the best techs I'd worked with .

We're in different worlds but my experiance is that dairymen and herdsmen get better conception rates but professional breeders consistantly get more cows pregnant in a shorter amount of time.
If you and I were to walk the same set of cows and you find ten to breed and I find twenty, I'll get the same conception as you on your ten plus pick up one or two on the extra ten. My conception rate would be lower because of the ten extra cows that I bred that weren't smoking hot but overall I got more cows pregnant. Conception rate is a only one aspect of getting cows pregnant. It's a worthless number unless we're able to put everything else in context. My conception rate is really nothing special but If you ask my customers, they'll likely tell you it's fantastic because I breed agressivly so that cows don't show up open. Sometimes I'm wrong but most often I'm right. When tons of cows show up pregnant, nobody looks at conception rates... They only see the good investment. :nod:
I guess what I'm saying is that if you're patting yourself on the back for your conception rates, maybe it's time to start seeing ALL of the hot cows.

You've said yourself that if you get the semen in the right general area, at the right time, the cow is going to get bred.
The rest of it (aside from inseminating) I've been doing since about '95. Techs here don't pick out the cows on heat, the farmer (or his manager) identifies and drafts them. I'd seriously like to see you walk through my herd and take my submission rate up to 198% :clap:
Managing a 200-cow herd is worlds away from what you do... but it seems to me that you're needed because of untrained staff who can't do the job, same problem in this country in large herds. I've heard tales of workers who thought they understood the whole deal who drafted out and submitted 5% of the herd each day... any 5%.

 

[Cross breeder #1]

do any of you know of a AI tech in the tri state area? (north east MO)

 

[dun]

do any of you know of a AI tech in the tri state area? (north east MO)

Check with ABS (http://www.absglobal.com/), Genex (http://genex.crinet.com/), Select sires (http://www.selectsires.com/, Cattlevisions (http://onlinebullstud.com/), Accelerated (http://www.accelgen.com/).

 

[cow pollinater]

I don't have current info on hand but Brian Brace is who I have listed as your area beef sales manager from ABS as of late 2011. The phone number that I have is 563-260-4971. If that doesn't work try 1-800-ABS-STUD. They can get you in touch with someone in the area.

 

[Lawson Farms]

CP,
What advice would you give a new guy on how to improve heat detection. We use Kamar patches and the 12hr rule when setting up to timed AI, but I still feel that we lack in the heat detection part. When we were milking, my dad would spend 25 min in the morning and 25 min in the early evening heat detecting. Before he passed, he never really taught us other than looking for who was riding. But I know from his knowledge of the herd he knew who to look for. How do you know "who" to look for when you're not at your customer's place on a day to day basis.

BL

 

[cow pollinater]

You're working to hard . Switch to tail chalk and refresh it once a day. If keeping it fresh isn't doable then the estrotech patches are a close second. The kaymars will only hurt your learning curve as they're either rode hard enough to break the kaymar or they weren't in heat and there's alot of middle ground there. All of the above are heat detection AIDS... you have to learn all of the signs of what a hot cow is to catch them all and alot of them won't make it obvious. Look for, pacing, cows that normally milk fast that don't let down that day or are squirting milk when they shouldn't be, moist patches on the tail behind the vulva or even a spiral of mucous if she's really coming in strong, cows that stare off into the distance with their head down low while the cows locked up next to them are eating vigorously, cows that normally lock up on one end of the pen that suddenly lock up next to your truck... Switch to chalk and then start watching the cows that you suspect to be startin to come in and watch how they act. They'll teach you.
None of it by itself makes a hot cow but when you practice alot you'll start to see the differance. Alot of guys never open their vulvas but I do and it's my deciding factor alot of times. I want to see an even pink color with some moisture to it. If it's dry and splotchy or even white then I need a ton of other evidence to convince me she's in heat.
Fair warning, they ALL look like they're in heat if you really want them to be. It takes a ton of fine tuning to get it down right but you can switch to the chalk and breed the obvious ones and be in the same position you're in now and then learn at your own pace as the cows teach you. It is a seven day a week deal and if you aren't there you likely missed it but once you get good at chalk then you can do it once a day with great results.

 

[Lawson Farms]

Sorry to hijack this thread. But I know that heat detection is my weak point.

CP, I can understand some of the signs you mention from a dairy perspective, but now that we've sold the milk herd and have our angus cows, they are not quite as hands-on as the holsteins were.

We are only breeding now with timed-AI. Until I feel more comfortable with breeding, we're using a select synch program with NO CIDR's and Timed AI.

I'm not on the farm everyday (yet), but I hope that will be changing soon. When we do set up cows, we have heat detected from day 4 thru day 10. All non responders were TAI'd day 10. During heat detection, we looked 2x per day for about 25 minutes for abnormalities in the pasture and also for red kmars. we then checked/bred by the am/pm rule.

I guess my main question is as you travel to all your dairies/beef producers with your route, how to you decide who is in heat versus who is not? Or are you there frequently enough to know the cows like the dairyman? A newly red kmar and a string of mucus halfway down to the ground used to be my only tale-tell sign of good to go.