Composite bull

[slick4591]

Next time I catch him near the fence I'll snap a picture. The calves will be aways off.

 

[Angus Cowman]

Would you considering a F1 smokey (Charolais x Angus) bull as a herdsire? I saw one for the sale on Craigslist and he looks good.

I noticed one (or what looks like one) showed up in a guys pasture a couple months ago. He's using him on Longhorn and LH crosses. I though it was a weird combination but we'll see what the calves look like later on.

There's a couple of farms that have baldy bulls in with Angus cows around here.

Areyou sure they aren't sim-angus bulls you will see lots of sim angus that are baldies

 

[OakCreekRanch]

Next time I catch him near the fence I'll snap a picture. The calves will be aways off.

I'm no genetic guru, but what colors on the calves will you expecting from this mating?

 

[Lucky_P]

Used 'em for years. 50/50 Simbrah over old black baldie cows back in AL in the '80s, 3/4AN-1/4SM and 5/8SM-3/8AN SimAngus bulls over crossbred cowherd here in KY for a decade or more. Got along fine, but type and color were not uniform.
But, as we're using 10-12 AI sires of 3-4 different breeds now, type and color still aren't uniform...

 

[fitz]

Would you considering a F1 smokey (Charolais x Angus) bull as a herdsire? I saw one for the sale on Craigslist and he looks good.

I noticed one (or what looks like one) showed up in a guys pasture a couple months ago. He's using him on Longhorn and LH crosses. I though it was a weird combination but we'll see what the calves look like later on.

There's a couple of farms that have baldy bulls in with Angus cows around here.

Areyou sure they aren't sim-angus bulls you will see lots of sim angus that are baldies

You would think that would be more likely. Sim/Angus or possibly straight Simmental baldie marked Bull.

fitz

 

[slick4591]

Areyou sure they aren't sim-angus bulls you will see lots of sim angus that are baldies

I can't be positive about the bulls at this point because they are always to far out in the pasture when I drive by. The guy (now deceased) runs red Herefords, black Angus, and baldys between three places and keeps them all separate by breed. His main place is on the way to my farm and I see one pasture where he keeps cows (baldys currently) and the one where he keeps his bulls The bulls are in a pasture across the road from his cows. There is only Herefords and what looks like baldys in the bull pasture. My first thought is baldys because of the cows, but I've never seen an Angus bull in the bull pasture. I don't get it, but the cows have been rotated between pastures every year so far.

The place is currently being operated by a ranch manager and the guy's daughters, but running just like he did.

 

[Ryder]

Have any of you known anyone to use a composite bull (black baldy for instance) on a cross bred herd of cows and do any good?
I was asked that question the other day, about my own herd, and I just told them I have only used full blood bulls, and have never considered using any other. Made me wonder though.

What would be the point?
To cross different breeds for hybrid vigor is one thing. But to mix in too many breeds loses control over the genetics.

To form a new strain or breed with traits from two or more breeds takes a lot of time and animals.
They have to be bred and culled rigorously in order to arrive at some degree of consistency. This would be when you are trying to "set" the desired traits you want from the different breeds.
Otherwise you can be creating a genetic mess.
But for those that do it and it works, how can you argue with success?

 

[Beef Man]

Is there some kind of contest or race to see who can comingle and or mess up their cattle the most or worst?? How can such a mixture be market'd[one or two at a time??]. I was raised by old time cattle traders and it was accepted that uniformity was a virtue. Maybe sort 2 or 3 owners cattle into look alikes and similar weights. Just like a order buyer does it in the sale barn,makeing the loads much more attractive to the feeder --backgrounder.

 

[Son of Butch]

F1 bulls should look better than their purebred ancestors, they are using up the heterosis or hybrid vigor for themselves.
I guess if you get a couple more seasons of breeding out of them vs purebred bull, I guess maybe it could be justified.
I've seen good looking calf crops from them, it's just that within the group the calves favor one breed of the composite
and more sorting to make a uniform group. It would be interesting to see head to head performance data on calves sired
by composites vs same breed purebreds that make up the F1 cross in question. I don't know of any legit performance research that has ever been done on F1 sires vs purebred sires. Maybe I should check to see if its been done with hogs.
Genetic performance research can be done much faster with hogs than cattle.
I don't suppose there are any hog farmers out there reading this, but if so comments would be welcomed.

 

[Son of Butch]

Answered my own question regarding hog research. 3 yr study 1977-1979.
Conclusion: Only significant difference using 4 breed cross F1 Boar on F1 females vs 3 way purebred boar on F1 females
F1 boars had 6% reproductive advantage over purebred boars.
While there was a significant difference by breed [duroc, landrace, spotted, and yorkshire] with duroc terminal sired pens
significantly out performing other purebred sires.
[perhaps in part bcs duroc cross sows also make poorer mothers than the other breeds]
There was NO Significant difference in average daily gain, feed efficiency or carcass merit using F1 boars vs purebred boars.

I have to assume it would hold true for cattle too.
Which breeds are used appears to be more important than 3 way cross vs 4 way cross.
I know using duroc x hampshire F1 boars on landrace x yorkshire F1 females is a very popular terminal cross.

 

[slick4591]

Best pic out of what I took with my phone, but this is that smokey bull. There was also some young calves that look like they might have been his but were to far out. I'll try them again when they are by the road.

 

[OakCreekRanch]

Good thick bull I think. I just read an article about a Char x Red Angus composite called Range Fire composite being used in some areas. Judging from the pictures, their cattle looks good just don't know if its a good thing.

 

[Engler]

I can see three advantages to using a cross bull,
1) as a cross they should have more get libido I would think. With this you could have a tighter calving window and/or need fewer bulls for the same number of cows.
2) if you had a rainbow herd they could give the calves more uniformity. I know that this seems backwards, but as it was explained to me if you have a Simangus bull (for example) you know that every calf will be at least 1/4 british and at least 1/4 exotic.
3) if you had a herd of Herf cows (example) that needed a shot more milk, but a PB Gel would make half blood daughters that wouldn't hold up because of too much milk and not breed back. You could make some 1/4 Gel/3/4 Herf cows using what you already have.

I view a stablized composite (BM, Gert, etc) as more of a breed so comparing them to an F1 or unplaned or unorganized cross is an apples and oranges conversation to me.

 

[HOSS]

I can see three advantages to using a cross bull,
1) as a cross they should have more get libido I would think. With this you could have a tighter calving window and/or need fewer bulls for the same number of cows.
2) if you had a rainbow herd they could give the calves more uniformity. I know that this seems backwards, but as it was explained to me if you have a Simangus bull (for example) you know that every calf will be at least 1/4 british and at least 1/4 exotic.
3) if you had a herd of Herf cows (example) that needed a shot more milk, but a PB Gel would make half blood daughters that wouldn't hold up because of too much milk and not breed back. You could make some 1/4 Gel/3/4 Herf cows using what you already have.

I view a stablized composite (BM, Gert, etc) as more of a breed so comparing them to an F1 or unplaned or unorganized cross is an apples and oranges conversation to me.

Try a Gelbvieh bull.........they will give a Jersey bull a run for his money as far as libido goes. No female within 3 miles is safe from a Gelb bull :lol2:

 

[OakCreekRanch]

I can see three advantages to using a cross bull,
1) as a cross they should have more get libido I would think. With this you could have a tighter calving window and/or need fewer bulls for the same number of cows.
2) if you had a rainbow herd they could give the calves more uniformity. I know that this seems backwards, but as it was explained to me if you have a Simangus bull (for example) you know that every calf will be at least 1/4 british and at least 1/4 exotic.
3) if you had a herd of Herf cows (example) that needed a shot more milk, but a PB Gel would make half blood daughters that wouldn't hold up because of too much milk and not breed back. You could make some 1/4 Gel/3/4 Herf cows using what you already have.

I view a stablized composite (BM, Gert, etc) as more of a breed so comparing them to an F1 or unplaned or unorganized cross is an apples and oranges conversation to me.

Try a Gelbvieh bull.........they will give a Jersey bull a run for his money as far as libido goes. No female within 3 miles is safe from a Gelb bull :lol2:

I would think that a Corriente bull do better than Gelbvieh, just saying.

 

[3waycross]

Try a Gelbvieh bull.........they will give a Jersey bull a run for his money as far as libido goes. No female within 3 miles is safe from a Gelb bull :lol2:[/quote] I would think that a Corriente bull do better than Gelbvieh, just saying.[/quote]


Why stop there. If ya recommend a Mexican Rat go all the way. I am sure this stud will giv you all kinds of calving ease

 

[HOSS]

I agree with 3way. If you are looking for a roping steer by all means use a Corriente. If you want to do something useful in the beef business get a beef bull.

 

[3waycross]

Try a Gelbvieh bull.........they will give a Jersey bull a run for his money as far as libido goes. No female within 3 miles is safe from a Gelb bull :lol2:

I would think that a Corriente bull do better than Gelbvieh, just saying.[/quote][/quote]

The rest of us are just as proud of our breeds and our cows as you are. OakCreek Ranch. I can't remember ever a time when any of us Gelbvieh fellas or gals got on here and compared a herf to anything bad. Especially a Corriente. So how about a little respect for the rest of us.

I actually went back to see if i or any of the other GV breeders had flamed you or your cattle.

 

[OakCreekRanch]

Try a Gelbvieh bull.........they will give a Jersey bull a run for his money as far as libido goes. No female within 3 miles is safe from a Gelb bull :lol2:

I would think that a Corriente bull do better than Gelbvieh, just saying.[/quote]

The rest of us are just as proud of our breeds and our cows as you are. Oakcreekfarms. I can't remember ever a time when any of us Gelbvieh fellas or gals got on here and compared a herf to anything bad. Especially a Corriente. So how about a little respect for the rest of us.

I actually went back to see if i or any of the other GV breeders had flamed you or your cattle and all i could find was where i told you i liked one of your heifers.[/quote] :???: I think you must be talking about Oakcreekfarms....and no I wouldn't promote the corriente bull as a beef bull. I'm just saying that the corriente bull will find every female he can smell many miles away and bred them before their bull does. Darn good escapists.

 

[3waycross]

Try a Gelbvieh bull.........they will give a Jersey bull a run for his money as far as libido goes. No female within 3 miles is safe from a Gelb bull :lol2:

I would think that a Corriente bull do better than Gelbvieh, just saying.[/quote]

The rest of us are just as proud of our breeds and our cows as you are. Oakcreekfarms. I can't remember ever a time when any of us Gelbvieh fellas or gals got on here and compared a herf to anything bad. Especially a Corriente. So how about a little respect for the rest of us.

I actually went back to see if i or any of the other GV breeders had flamed you or your cattle and all i could find was where i told you i liked one of your heifers.

:???: I think you must be talking about Oakcreekfarms....and no I wouldn't promote the corriente bull as a beef bull. I'm just saying that the corriente bull will find every female he can smell many miles away and bred them before their bull does. Darn good escapists.[/quote]

Why yes I did mean him. So basically you had no reason to say that. I have read your posts about using carrier bulls and heifers and after all that ranting about the beef industry and what they should do you promote a corriente over a purebred beef bull.

Guess I do not understand that logic.