Coastal, Klein, Blue Stem, How to compare?

[novatech]

Forage diversication is what many successful cattle operations have. It does not have be a mix of grasses in the same pasture.
seperate pastures for diferent grasses will make the cattle eat whatever grass is available. A mix of grasses in one pasture allows the cattle to be selective in what they eat. For instance I have a small pasture containing mostly coastal, some blue stem, a litte johnsongrass and a little bahia.The first thing they eat is the johnsongrass, then the bluestem, next the bahia and finally the coastal. What they eat or prefer has nothing do do with nutritional value. It only has to do with what they prefer. If this process continues the coastal will take over and and the other will die out because of overgrazeing. What was important during last years lack of rain, altough less nutritious, the bluestem out preformed anything else includeing the coastal. This year the coastal, with plenty of rain, is takeing over the pasture.
Tifton 85 has poven to me to be a little different in the way it apeals to the cattle. Unlike the other varities of bremudas I have tested, the tefton is just as desireabe as the bluestem.
Last year I researched more water efficient grasses, This year I am looking at other grasses with more than average rainfall, maybe eastern gamma grass.

 

[Caustic Burno]

Forage diversication is what many successful cattle operations have. It does not have be a mix of grasses in the same pasture.
seperate pastures for diferent grasses will make the cattle eat whatever grass is available. A mix of grasses in one pasture allows the cattle to be selective in what they eat. For instance I have a small pasture containing mostly coastal, some blue stem, a litte johnsongrass and a little bahia.The first thing they eat is the johnsongrass, then the bluestem, next the bahia and finally the coastal. What they eat or prefer has nothing do do with nutritional value. It only has to do with what they prefer. If this process continues the coastal will take over and and the other will die out because of overgrazeing. What was important during last years lack of rain, altough less nutritious, the bluestem out preformed anything else including the coastal. This year the coastal, with plenty of rain, is takeing over the pasture.
Tifton 85 has poven to me to be a little different in the way it apeals to the cattle. Unlike the other varities of bremudas I have tested, the tefton is just as desireabe as the bluestem.
Last year I researched more water efficient grasses, This year I am looking at other grasses with more than average rainfall, maybe eastern gamma grass.

Location, location, location as they say. Where you are with beach sand and a little dirt, "water efficient grass" should be the name of the game. I know a guy in the Washington County area who says his cows go after the Tifton before they go after anything and it seems to be pretty water efficient because it pops right back after a drought. Some of my cows are going after crabgrass right now instead of fertilized Bermuda but I'm not gonna run out and start planting Crabgrass. In Caustics area Coastal apparently doesn't do as well , but Bahia (a weed :lol works out well for him. It's obvious that one has to match the grass to the conditions.

I'd like to see a study (from a non-commercial group) that indicates that all of the startup and maintenance costs are lower for a multi-type grass operation than for a single grass operation.

All good points I have tried coastal we are to wet it gets a rust on it as well we have to much standing water in the bottoms. I actually had to put in a drainage system. The common does pretty good in the creek bottoms here. Here you are looking at 60 inches of rainfall a year. I have a plot of Red River crab grass planted as a test. RR crab grass has higher yields and if it performs we will see where that takes us.

 

[Brute 23]

I don't fertilize pasture land... and definatley don't spray herbicide.
:shock:

Why would anyone not spray there pasture and fertlize to maximize cattle per acre. I am not a weed farmer but a grass to convert to beef to cash.

I take that back... I spray weed killer across everything religously to control weeds and weesatche. No shredding...

It would cost thousands and thousands of dollars to spray fertilizer across everything and the amount of extra cows I could run would not pay for it.

ALso, if you are stocking up so many cows that you have to fertilize everything you are going to put yourself in a bind one of these days. :shock:

 

[novatech]

I don't fertilize pasture land... and definatley don't spray herbicide.
:shock:

Why would anyone not spray there pasture and fertlize to maximize cattle per acre. I am not a weed farmer but a grass to convert to beef to cash.

I take that back... I spray weed killer across everything religously to control weeds and weesatche. No shredding...

It would cost thousands and thousands of dollars to spray fertilizer across everything and the amount of extra cows I could run would not pay for it.

ALso, if you are stocking up so many cows that you have to fertilize everything you are going to put yourself in a bind one of these days. :shock:

weesatche Glad to see there is someone else that can,t spell it. I have to look it up every time. Not going to right now but it starts with hu I think.

Don't want to change the thread but it brought up a question on pasture fertilization.
If one starts of with a soil test and puts on the required amount, then for the next 4 years I should only have to apply 20% of that amount. I have read that a cow return 80%of the nutriants back into the soil. This is in theory of course but would it not make sents?

 

[tytower]

I don't fertilize pasture land... and definatley don't spray herbicide.
:shock:

Why would anyone not spray there pasture and fertlize to maximize cattle per acre. I am not a weed farmer but a grass to convert to beef to cash.

Well I don,t fertilize for a quick buck at the lands expense for one and there are a lot of us . Natural is the term cause you have no idea what damage you are doing in the long term . Its not sustainable and you will make the bucks perhaps for a while but your kids will have to walk off it later on.

Someone like me will have to come back on it and try to bring back the humus and bring back the microflora to help it.

My approach is I don't grow Cattle I grow grass. Cattle feed on the grass and get sold but I grow grass primarily and the land is the most important part .

 

[tytower]

Forage diversication is what many successful cattle operations have. It does not have be a mix of grasses in the same pasture.
seperate pastures for diferent grasses will make the cattle eat whatever grass is available. A mix of grasses in one pasture allows the cattle to be selective in what they eat. For instance I have a small pasture containing mostly coastal, some blue stem, a litte johnsongrass and a little bahia.The first thing they eat is the johnsongrass, then the bluestem, next the bahia and finally the coastal. What they eat or prefer has nothing do do with nutritional value. It only has to do with what they prefer. If this process continues the coastal will take over and and the other will die out because of overgrazeing. What was important during last years lack of rain, altough less nutritious, the bluestem out preformed anything else includeing the coastal. This year the coastal, with plenty of rain, is takeing over the pasture.
Tifton 85 has poven to me to be a little different in the way it apeals to the cattle. Unlike the other varities of bremudas I have tested, the tefton is just as desireabe as the bluestem.
Last year I researched more water efficient grasses, This year I am looking at other grasses with more than average rainfall, maybe eastern gamma grass.

In years gone by I noticed old cattle men pulling a stem of grass and chewing and sucking on it , Its one of those sights that you just accept from a farmer and don't question . Years later I started doing it myself.

I noticed you can taste a sweetness in some grasses in the bottom of the stem where they go into the ground. Is this what the Cattle are selecting do you think?

 

[Caustic Burno]

I don't fertilize pasture land... and definatley don't spray herbicide.
:shock:

Why would anyone not spray there pasture and fertlize to maximize cattle per acre. I am not a weed farmer but a grass to convert to beef to cash.

I take that back... I spray weed killer across everything religously to control weeds and weesatche. No shredding...

It would cost thousands and thousands of dollars to spray fertilizer across everything and the amount of extra cows I could run would not pay for it.

ALso, if you are stocking up so many cows that you have to fertilize everything you are going to put yourself in a bind one of these days. :shock:

It takes 35 calf here a year to pay the fuel and fertilizer bills the stocking rate here is one unit per acre I run one unit per two acres. I don't have to worry about hay as my pastures are hay quality in a bind I can bale them. You can't stock or manage your grass for the good times those are easy a three leg one eyed monkey could get by. It's the droughts and hard times that point out the cattlemen. You don't stay in this business for 30+ years without a herd management and a Grass Management plan.

 

[Brute 23]

Its just easier to put weesatche then look it up and any one who matters knows what you are talking about. :lol:

 

[Brute 23]

I'm convinced that herbicide applications can save one heck of a lot of money. I can treat 10 acres of broadleaf weeds with about 2 gallons of 2,4-D for about $40 versus mowing the same 4 times a year at a cost of a shredder, diesel fuel and 5 hours of additional time without killing any of the weeds. Throw some fertilzer on whatever grass your trying to keep and it will eventually choke out any remaining weeds, saving you even the herbicide cost, eventually.

If you need further convincing go buy a new 10 ft bushhog for several thousand dollars and watch it rust out over just a few years. Herbicide is cheap!

Definatley... it is by far cheaper and I believe more effective to spray weed killer instead of shredding.

After you spray for many years alot of weeds just flat out stop coming up.

 

[Caustic Burno]

I don't fertilize pasture land... and definatley don't spray herbicide.
:shock:

Why would anyone not spray there pasture and fertlize to maximize cattle per acre. I am not a weed farmer but a grass to convert to beef to cash.

I take that back... I spray weed killer across everything religously to control weeds and weesatche. No shredding...

It would cost thousands and thousands of dollars to spray fertilizer across everything and the amount of extra cows I could run would not pay for it.

ALso, if you are stocking up so many cows that you have to fertilize everything you are going to put yourself in a bind one of these days. :shock:

It takes 35 calf here a year to pay the fuel and fertilizer bills the stocking rate here is one unit per acre I run one unit per two acres. I don't have to worry about hay as my pastures are hay quality in a bind I can bale them. You can't stock or manage your grass for the good times those are easy a three leg one eyed monkey could get by. It's the droughts and hard times that point out the cattlemen. You don't stay in this business for 30+ years without a herd management and a Grass Management plan.

Caustic - 1 unit per 2 acres is pretty good in my opinion! How much time and what was the cost to get to that point?

Really wasn't that much time in getting good grass took longer to quite making knot headed mistakes overstocking, not having a big enough hay reserve, not fertilizing using grazon versus 2-4D, grazon kills the good seeds as well as the bad.

 

[Bluestem]

I'm convinced that herbicide applications can save one heck of a lot of money. I can treat 10 acres of broadleaf weeds with about 2 gallons of 2,4-D for about $40 versus mowing the same 4 times a year at a cost of a shredder, diesel fuel and 5 hours of additional time without killing any of the weeds. Throw some fertilzer on whatever grass your trying to keep and it will eventually choke out any remaining weeds, saving you even the herbicide cost, eventually.

If you need further convincing go buy a new 10 ft bushhog for several thousand dollars and watch it rust out over just a few years. Herbicide is cheap!

Herbicide=overgrazed land. Just my opinion. If you start out with over grazed land the herbicide and fertilizer may help speed up recovery. With the proper stocking rate.

 

[MikeC]

Herbicide=overgrazed land.

How do you figure this? Herbicide can mostly be used here for "undergrazed" land such as land coming out of CRP, among others.

Fire ants are a big reason to not Bush Hog or Shred pastures.
They can demolish a Bush Hog in just one to two seasons. Not counting the damge done to the tractor by instantaneously overloading the PTO. (I have seen PTO shafts broken inside the tractor from hitting ant beds with a Bush Hog.)

Plus, you can apply herbicides for a fraction of the cost.

Most broadleaf weeds will not be killed if the stem is not cut below the bottom leaves, allowing them to gather energy from the sun.

Bush hogging/shredding only serves to give you a sense of instant gratification and accomplishment.

Does anyone think those guys in Nebraska and S. Dakota with those wonderful pastures bush hog their pastures each year?

Waste of time and money.

 

[Caustic Burno]

Herbicide=overgrazed land.

How do you figure this? Herbicide can mostly be used here for "undergrazed" land such as land coming out of CRP, among others.

Fire ants are a big reason to not Bush Hog or Shred pastures.
They can demolish a Bush Hog in just one to two seasons. Not counting the damge done to the tractor by instantaneously overloading the PTO. (I have seen PTO shafts broken inside the tractor from hitting ant beds with a Bush Hog.)

Plus, you can apply herbicides for a fraction of the cost.

Most broadleaf weeds will not be killed if the stem is not cut below the bottom leaves, allowing them to gather energy from the sun.

Bush hogging/shredding only serves to give you a sense of instant gratification and accomplishment.

Does anyone think those guys in Nebraska and S. Dakota with those wonderful pastures bush hog their pastures each year?

Waste of time and money.

I can testify to the broke PTO 1400 bucks in parts and my labor we were back up and running.

 

[MikeC]

I can testify to the broke PTO 1400 bucks in parts and my labor we were back up and running.

International tractor?

 

[Caustic Burno]

I can testify to the broke PTO 1400 bucks in parts and my labor we were back up and running.

International tractor?

Massey Ferguson

 

[Brute 23]

Shredders have their place but it is not for weed control in fields... ;-)

 

[novatech]

You guy,s need to look at this shredding with a different perspective. It gets me out of the house when my wife is on the war path. :lol:

 

[Txwalt]

Lots of good info here for this beginner.

Walt

 

[Caustic Burno]

I'm convinced that herbicide applications can save one heck of a lot of money. I can treat 10 acres of broadleaf weeds with about 2 gallons of 2,4-D for about $40 versus mowing the same 4 times a year at a cost of a shredder, diesel fuel and 5 hours of additional time without killing any of the weeds. Throw some fertilzer on whatever grass your trying to keep and it will eventually choke out any remaining weeds, saving you even the herbicide cost, eventually.

If you need further convincing go buy a new 10 ft bushhog for several thousand dollars and watch it rust out over just a few years. Herbicide is cheap!

Herbicide=overgrazed land. Just my opinion. If you start out with over grazed land the herbicide and fertilizer may help speed up recovery. With the proper stocking rate.

You would change your tune if you were surrounded by pine plantations. They cut a thousand acres replant and for the next five years you have a thousand acre weed field up against your pasture. It is amazing as there will not be one weed in the plantation until they cut it as all the seeds are laying dormaint for the right time. I don't know how far a thistle seed will blow but ever time they cut anywhere close it is going to be a fight.