Time to start stockpiling

[BC]

Don't know if moisture will allow much of it yet again this year Areas with good fescue I've been clipping the weeds down in preparation. Clover is thick enough I'm not gonna worry with urea. Seems a big gamble anyhow right now.

A good chunk of my place the fescue was grazed out this spring and summer. Was hoping to try some grains for fall/winter but it's turned hot and dry again. Clover doesn't stockpile I don't think.

Just landed a lease with knee deep fescue on half of it. Good bit of blackberries and other weeds though. Should I clip it now or let it go considering the weather? Pic included. Animals won't see it til later this Fall. @kenny thomas

Do not clip the blackberries. Next spring, when they are in bloom spray them with Surmount. If you clip them now, there will not be enough leaf surface to absorb the herbicide.

 

[ClinchValley86]

I missed this 4 times!

Ok, it's a little before winter stockpile grazing. This being the case, clip at 6-8" to curtail goldenrod which I think I see some/alot in the photo and get some regrowth. Current forage will likely be unpalatible/low palatability before freeze.

I plan to 100 percent wait til frost and freeze makes the fescue lovely. That said, you'd leave it be? Probably be Christmas when they go there. Late fall to early winter I'll say.

 

[ClinchValley86]

Do not clip the blackberries. Next spring, when they are in bloom spray them with Surmount. If you clip them now, there will not be enough leaf surface to absorb the herbicide.

Very good advice I'm sure. I am allergic to herbicides. About as allergic as a person could be.

 

[Ebenezer]

I've got a place I've been building fence on, so no cows on it since spring. It's got a solid stand of red clover. I'm banking on that to be enough N for sufficient stockpile growth. What do the experts here think?

Dr. Dennis Hancock did some research while he was in GA on stockpiling fescue. What he proved was what I had seen and been doing - with adequate soil fertility there is not increase or economic additional increase of stockpile from the application of fall nitrogen. I can try to find that if it would help.

 

[ClinchValley86]

I don't get the idea behind

Is there a reason why you aren't going to graze that pasture until fall? I don't see the sense in mowing when you can high intensity graze and get the same effect.

My cows are on another pasture lease 35 miles away. I'm keeping them there til grass runs out. They get moved every 3 or 4 days. Hoping it'll last til November but doubtful. The landowners clipped about 20% of it that I was 2 weeks away from grazing again. Been a nightmare over there in a couple ways.

I like your thinking though.

 

[ClinchValley86]

Dr. Dennis Hancock did some research while he was in GA on stockpiling fescue. What he proved was what I had seen and been doing - with adequate soil fertility there is not increase or economic additional increase of stockpile from the application of fall nitrogen. I can try to find that if it would help.

I've read many times that there is a point in fertility where the juice isn't worth the squeeze.

@kenny thomas and crew do a good bit of soil and forage testing. Maybe we could get a test done comparing fertile ground without urea to fertile ground with urea.

 

[Ebenezer]

source article "Enough N may already be freely available: There is growing evidence that healthy soils containing high levels of organic matter and are full of biotic life may hold and release enough N that one will not see a benefit to late season N application. In these situations, addition of N fertilizer may be of little or no benefit, and therefore, not profitable. Currently, researchers are examining protocols to determine predictions of how responsive a stand will be to N application, and these may eventually be useful for predicting late season N response."

 

[BFE]

It's post oak ground which means it's like a white powder, very little OM. Ava and Buford soil types for those that are into that.

No sage grass so ph is sufficiently high. I think I'll just leave it alone

 

[BFE]

Sorry inserted the same one three times.

 

[BFE]

I don't plan on sowing clover here this winter. I think I have plenty.

 

[kenny thomas]

Alre

I've read many times that there is a point in fertility where the juice isn't worth the squeeze.

@kenny thomas and crew do a good bit of soil and forage testing. Maybe we could get a test done comparing fertile ground without urea to fertile ground with urea.

Already done forage tests comparing with and without Urea. Same field but put a 20 by 40 clear plastic down. Spread Urea on labor day weekend. As soon as finished i removed the plastic but marked the area. On Dec 5th forage samples were taken by our extension agent.
Area without urea tested over 17% protein. Area with urea was over 19%. Big difference was the volume of forage. Im guessing 3-4 times the amount of forage.
Another thing i noticed was the next spring you could tell exactly where it was sampled. I feel the urea made a lot better root system in the fall which responded better the next spring.
I have my urea bought and will spread it next weekend if it cools off and rains or giving rain..

 

[kenny thomas]

Dr. Dennis Hancock did some research while he was in GA on stockpiling fescue. What he proved was what I had seen and been doing - with adequate soil fertility there is not increase or economic additional increase of stockpile from the application of fall nitrogen. I can try to find that if it would help.

Do you have a link? I love studying about fescue stockpiling.
Sorry, you already.posted the link. Thank you.

 

[Ebenezer]

Do you have a link? I love studying about fescue stockpiling.
Sorry, you already.posted the link. Thank you.

The funny/odd thing to me is that universities and extension services warn about the levels of nutrients in the soil that exceed a crop/forage need for a year (basis for soil test recommendations). This is a big deal with litter application. But if you get the soil prepped with the stored nutrients for extra years, the response is like the article says. So what is wrong and what is right?

 

[Mark Reynolds]

I plan to 100 percent wait til frost and freeze makes the fescue lovely. That said, you'd leave it be? Probably be Christmas when they go there. Late fall to early winter I'll say.

If you aren't going to graze at all before frost. Let it be. I feel you have very little, if anything, to gain by clipping and a whole lot to potentially lose if you do clip.

 

[Mark Reynolds]

The funny/odd thing to me is that universities and extension services warn about the levels of nutrients in the soil that exceed a crop/forage need for a year (basis for soil test recommendations). This is a big deal with litter application. But if you get the soil prepped with the stored nutrients for extra years, the response is like the article says. So what is wrong and what is right?

If I can quote Jim Garrish, I think the answer might be 'it depends' and I mean to a large extent on the soil's ability capture and hold the nutrients, and then beneficially release the nutrients. Nutrients applied to a sandy soil in excess will quickly leach out and become a surface water runoff contaminant. The same can be said about litter applied to the surface of a soil in excess. If, however, the soil is heavier or has more organic matter (think sponge) and the added nutrients are incorporated into the soil, more nutrients can be added with less risk.

 

[Mark Reynolds]

Dr. Dennis Hancock did some research while he was in GA on stockpiling fescue. What he proved was what I had seen and been doing - with adequate soil fertility there is not increase or economic additional increase of stockpile from the application of fall nitrogen. I can try to find that if it would help.

That would be cool.

 

[StrojanHerefords]

I am not the biggest fan of applying nitrogen because it is ephemeral. It is the only chemical fertilizer that can evaporate from the soil. Money is much better spent on improvements that last.
I went to the Neil Kinsey seminar at AgPhd a few years go and it really expanded my thought process on soil fertility. Roots need certain levels of fertility to perform optimally and fields can vary drastically in terms of what is needed.
My recommendation would be to be to grid sample your pasture, maybe on sample for every cow that you run on the place. And then start a build program on the pasture that would bring the soil to its proper fertility level. The beauty of grazing is that cows can return the fertility back to the soil.

 

[Mark Reynolds]

I am not the biggest fan of applying nitrogen because it is ephemeral. It is the only chemical fertilizer that can evaporate from the soil. Money is much better spent on improvements that last.
I went to the Neil Kinsey seminar at AgPhd a few years go and it really expanded my thought process on soil fertility. Roots need certain levels of fertility to perform optimally and fields can vary drastically in terms of what is needed.
My recommendation would be to be to grid sample your pasture, maybe on sample for every cow that you run on the place. And then start a build program on the pasture that would bring the soil to its proper fertility level. The beauty of grazing is that cows can return the fertility back to the soil.

I am not either, especially when you can 'hire' some legumes to produce the nitrogen for you at a constant, continual, perpetual rate at 'no cost' to you.

 

[ClinchValley86]

Alre

Already done forage tests comparing with and without Urea. Same field but put a 20 by 40 clear plastic down. Spread Urea on labor day weekend. As soon as finished i removed the plastic but marked the area. On Dec 5th forage samples were taken by our extension agent.
Area without urea tested over 17% protein. Area with urea was over 19%. Big difference was the volume of forage. Im guessing 3-4 times the amount of forage.
Another thing i noticed was the next spring you could tell exactly where it was sampled. I feel the urea made a lot better root system in the fall which responded better the next spring.
I have my urea bought and will spread it next weekend if it cools off and rains or giving rain..

That's a pretty big deal. I might need to quit being a cheapass.

 

[ClinchValley86]

If you aren't going to graze at all before frost. Let it be. I feel you have very little, if anything, to gain by clipping and a whole lot to potentially lose if you do clip.

I'm thinking you're right, kind sir. Appreciate it.