Coastal, Klein, Blue Stem, How to compare?

[Brute 23]

I am trying to find out how to compare these grasses.

Our family land is all coastal. That is what I am familar with.

I am managing a place that is just native junk with a small Klein grass field that use to be a hay field. I cut hay off it this year just to keep from buying hay but I am not sure the quality of this grass.

Is it better to keep it since it is already there or would it be benificial to plow it up and go with coastal or hte bluestem.

I am looking at possibly planting something called W.W. Bluestem. Some one reccomended it to me.

I am trying to figure out how to compare these grasses and find out wich one is better, worse, or even the pros and cons of each.

Does some one know or can they point me in a direction to find out. Thanks

 

[txag]

kleingrass will typically be lower in protein than coastal (i can't find the research right now, but i think it's around 9% protein). it also doesn't respond as well to intensive grazing. it does better if cattle are pulled off occasionally to allow it to seed out & re-establish itself. cattle absolutely LOVE it & will head out first thing in the morning to find any regrowth.

as for horses, i found this:

"Recent Texas A&M Veterinary Diagnostic Laboratory experience suggests an association of liver damage in horses on pure Kleingrass diets."

http://animalscience.tamu.edu/main/acad ... stures.pdf

here's a link to the Pogue site with some discussion of each type of grass:

http://www.pogueagri.com/grasses.htm

 

[Brute 23]

I think I am going to just leave the Klein grass field for right now. It is not very big and it has to be better than the native stuff.

The problem with the bluestem seems to be that it matures later in the year than coastal or the other bermudas. Wich can be bad becasue typically we get our rain early and it get dry later on.

I have dealt with jigs alot and that is why I was wanting to stay away from the bermudas because of how much of a pain they are to plant. You have to have just the perfecta mount of rain at the right time or it all goes down the drain.

I am considering planting 30 or 40 acres in the bluestem just to see how it works out and then doing the rest in coastal.

 

[novatech]

I think I am going to just leave the Klein grass field for right now. It is not very big and it has to be better than the native stuff.

The problem with the bluestem seems to be that it matures later in the year than coastal or the other bermudas. Wich can be bad becasue typically we get our rain early and it get dry later on.

I have dealt with jigs alot and that is why I was wanting to stay away from the bermudas because of how much of a pain they are to plant. You have to have just the perfecta mount of rain at the right time or it all goes down the drain.

I am considering planting 30 or 40 acres in the bluestem just to see how it works out and then doing the rest in coastal.

My understanding of the ww dahl bluestem is that it will produce better than others with less water and fert. This may turn into your greatest asset for that time of year.
As far as the klein goes, I beleive in, take what you have and make it better, fertilizer, herbicide, and water. I have seen some great pastures and haymeadows with klein.

Thought I would add these sites.

http://www.txfb.org/TexasAgriculture/20 ... family.htm

http://www.silvercreekfrm.com/

http://www.pasturegrasses.com/html/observations.html

 

[Earl Thigpen]

Brute, someone beat me to the Pogue Agri link but they've been really helpful to me. If you're thinking about doing any of the Bluestems in Lavaca county you might want to talk to Pogue. I have Gordo Bluestem and was looking to expanding with it. I called Pogue to order the seed and was told it doesn't do well in sandy/loamy soils. It likes to grow in gumbo (black dirt) and they are absolutely right. My Gordo does really well in the heavy soil but won't grow at all in sand. I know your place isn't too far from mine but I don't know your soil.

 

[Brute 23]

Ya the bluestems are not for sandy soils. I am wanting to plant it on a place the is hard packed black stuff.

My only concern with the Buestem is that it is going to mature too late for when we usually get our rains.

I am going to call pogue and some of those people and see what they say.

I was thinking about doing some in coastal and some in the bluestem that away I will have early and late grasses.

Does that make sense... or am I over thinking this?

 

[Running Arrow Bill]

The bluestem I've seen is a clump warm season grass that does not spread (like bermuda with runners). It is also low in protein...often in the 5-8% CP level.

Hard to go wrong with bermudagrass for both cattle and horses. With a little water it can spread rapidly, is hardy, and can survive drought conditions.

 

[novatech]

The bluestem I've seen is a clump warm season grass that does not spread (like bermuda with runners). It is also low in protein...often in the 5-8% CP level.

Hard to go wrong with bermudagrass for both cattle and horses. With a little water it can spread rapidly, is hardy, and can survive drought conditions.

I am in no way putting down bermudagrass.
The specific bluestem mentioned is not what you are looking at when you drive down the hiway. WW-b Dahl is more leafy and more palatable than most of the others. It has been tested and developed because of the low rainfall in the Texas panhandle and lower Oklahoma. Protein levels are 8 to 10%. It does not spread like bremuda but with seed. The germination rate of the seed is high and the grass is considered to be very aggresive, choking out most other vegatation. Cattle also do well on it as standing forage as it hold it nutrients longer than some of the other grasses.
Although it may not give the production and protein levels of hibred bremudas It far less expensive to plant. Production is 12000 lb. per A, useing 60 lbs. N per yr. with 30 in. rain per yr.
I would not claim this is a miracle grass but would be worth investigateing and/or testing on a small area.
Other advantages, it is wildlife friendly (deer,quail) and a fireant retardant.

 

[Brute 23]

I work at a ranch/ farm some times that has it planted and they cut 6 bales per acres off of it.

THey say that horses really like it and that the bales are not as dusty as coastal so if you want to store it in a barn or something and pitch fork it out or maybe do square bales that it is real nice to handle.

They broadcast the seed out in March and one year they didn't get rain until July and it stil came up. That is hard to beat.

They are part of a program that comes and checks how it is doing and how the wild life is responding to it. THey have a couple pastures of it and they also plant it between fields and on turn rows. Since planting it 2 coveys of quail have come in on the place and are hanging around.

 

[novatech]

You may want to talk to them, there may be a program where they help owners in creating wildlife habitat.

 

[novatech]

I am in no way putting down bermudagrass.

Tell them why you don't grow it then. Your leaving the impression it is not a good grass.

The specific bluestem mentioned is not what you are looking at when you drive down the hiway. WW-b Dahl is more leafy and more palatable than most of the others. It has been tested and developed because of the low rainfall in the Texas panhandle and lower Oklahoma. Protein levels are 8 to 10%. It does not spread like bremuda but with seed. The germination rate of the seed is high and the grass is considered to be very aggresive, choking out most other vegatation. Cattle also do well on it as standing forage as it hold it nutrients longer than some of the other grasses.
Although it may not give the production and protein levels of hibred bremudas It far less expensive to plant. Production is 12000 lb. per A, useing 60 lbs. N per yr. with 30 in. rain per yr.
I would not claim this is a miracle grass but would be worth investigateing and/or testing on a small area.
Other advantages, it is wildlife friendly (deer,quail) and a fireant retardant.

Bermuda is exceptional in drought conditions due to extensive deep root development.

Hard to go wrong with bermudagrass for both cattle and horses. With a little water it can spread rapidly, is hardy, and can survive drought conditions.

RAB is absolutely correct. Unless you have a lot of play money to experiment with, always go with what has been proven and provides the nutritional value cattle can depend on. Bermuda fullfills this role throughout the Gulf Coast in a variety of growing conditions. While Bluestems are native, acre for acre, Bermuda will give you more value all the way around in this area.

Some people don,t want to wait 5 years or so for the pay out.
Some people don,t have the high dollar investment money.
Some people don,t want to take the risk of weather bremuda will root or not.
Somepeople lease land and do not want to invest for someone else to benefit.
Somepeople would like to be more wildlife friendly.
Somepeople don,t like fire ants.
Some people like to try new grasses.
Somepeople may need a later matureing grass.
Some people may want a more diverse selection of forage.
Some people don,t have the money to dump into high amounts of fertilizer.
Some people don,t look up the research done or read the websits suggested before they comment. WW B Dahl is not a native.

 

[novatech]

I am in no way putting down bermudagrass.

Tell them why you don't grow it then. Your leaving the impression it is not a good grass.

The specific bluestem mentioned is not what you are looking at when you drive down the hiway. WW-b Dahl is more leafy and more palatable than most of the others. It has been tested and developed because of the low rainfall in the Texas panhandle and lower Oklahoma. Protein levels are 8 to 10%. It does not spread like bremuda but with seed. The germination rate of the seed is high and the grass is considered to be very aggresive, choking out most other vegatation. Cattle also do well on it as standing forage as it hold it nutrients longer than some of the other grasses.
Although it may not give the production and protein levels of hibred bremudas It far less expensive to plant. Production is 12000 lb. per A, useing 60 lbs. N per yr. with 30 in. rain per yr.
I would not claim this is a miracle grass but would be worth investigateing and/or testing on a small area.
Other advantages, it is wildlife friendly (deer,quail) and a fireant retardant.

Bermuda is exceptional in drought conditions due to extensive deep root development.

Hard to go wrong with bermudagrass for both cattle and horses. With a little water it can spread rapidly, is hardy, and can survive drought conditions.

RAB is absolutely correct. Unless you have a lot of play money to experiment with, always go with what has been proven and provides the nutritional value cattle can depend on. Bermuda fullfills this role throughout the Gulf Coast in a variety of growing conditions. While Bluestems are native, acre for acre, Bermuda will give you more value all the way around in this area.

Just one more note
Someof us don,t live in the rainforest of wharton texas with 84 in of rain per yr. Just because it is hardy does not mean it grows in drought. it only means it will stay alive. In low rainfall area this grass may be a better producer.

 

[Bluestem]

Folks are sure being hard on the native grasses. I have found that they do a good job with few inputs. They can out compete bermuda in a pasture that is not fertilized. Will out produce bermuda in a drought. Cattle will graze natives first if given a choice. (tending to overgraze the native, giving the bermuda the upper hand in a mixed pasture). And if wildlife is a concern, bermuda is of no value at all. I have no experience with WW B Dahl. So cannot comment, other than to say it is not a native Bluestem.

 

[novatech]

[

Pay out on Bermuda can begin the 1st year

I agree it can start, doesn't say it does or how long it takes.

Spend some time researching Bermuda versus WW

I have and there is no dought highbred bermuda will out preform dahl as long as it gets plenty of money invested.

As to Bermuda, I know a guy that just took a few sprigs of the stuff and stuck in dry ground and it grew.

Bet you a thousand bucks he waterd it imeadiatly after planting.

No expensive seeders or seed to buy or rent. Very little risk.

That describes dahl perfectly. It can be planted with a broadast spreader,and unlike sprigs will lay there for months waiting for a rain.

Steve Naiser plants hundreds of acres of Bermuda throughout the Gulf Coast for a living and says this stuff comes up even after two months of no rain after planting!!!

Maybe in supersaturated soil. And if you beleive the soil stayed dry for that length of time I want to sell you the golden gate bridge.

Or better yet, let's do an experiment in Brenham

I'll take you up on that. Your buying. :lol:

 

[Brute 23]

Some people don,t want to wait 5 years or so for the pay out.
Some people don,t have the high dollar investment money.
Some people don,t want to take the risk of weather bremuda will root or not.
Somepeople lease land and do not want to invest for someone else to benefit.
Somepeople would like to be more wildlife friendly.
Somepeople don,t like fire ants.
Some people like to try new grasses.
Somepeople may need a later matureing grass.
Some people may want a more diverse selection of forage.
Some people don,t have the money to dump into high amounts of fertilizer.
Some people don,t look up the research done or read the websits suggested before they comment. WW B Dahl is not a native.

That about sums it up right there...

 

[Brute 23]

I was in on that jigs craze a while back and the risk involved with sprigging makes my right eye twitch.

From my experience if you sprigged and didn't get rain for 2 months that field was a loss. Some here and there but nothing worth even talking about.

I am a big fan of coastal but that is more of a long term high risk deal. The pay off can be greater in the end.

The bluestem is a short term low risk. Your end result may be a little less.

Its just like any investment... you need to diversify.

 

[novatech]

I was in on that jigs craze a while back and the risk involved with sprigging makes my right eye twitch.

From my experience if you sprigged and didn't get rain for 2 months that field was a loss. Some here and there but nothing worth even talking about.

I am a big fan of coastal but that is more of a long term high risk deal. The pay off can be greater in the end.

The bluestem is a short term low risk. Your end result may be a little less.

Its just like any investment... you need to diversify.

I agree. Diversified pastures work because some grasses mature early and some late. This translates into less hay. Combined with cool season forage, and legumes this developes into a low input system.
Basicly I agree with Bluestem on this and his practice of sustainable pastures. I also beleave in the Hibred bremudas but that should have a pasture, or hay field, to themselves as they chokeout other grasses.

 

[Brute 23]

I don't fertilize pasture land... and definatley don't spray herbicide.
:shock:

 

[Caustic Burno]

Coastal doesn't work everywhere in Texas. It is good grass but if doesn't produce better than other grasses in your area it's worthless.

 

[Caustic Burno]

I don't fertilize pasture land... and definatley don't spray herbicide.
:shock:

Why would anyone not spray there pasture and fertlize to maximize cattle per acre. I am not a weed farmer but a grass to convert to beef to cash.