Changing colors

[Randi]

So they liked tan (which is a Char X) but not a smokey?

Yep, makes a lot of sense doesn't it....

 

[Aaron]

Smokies sell poorly here, but not the silvers. Silvers sell right in the same range as red cattle.

What cross is a silver?

Maybe Randi can clarify, but as far as I know, smokie and silver are same thing. In the East they are called Smokies, in west, Silvers. Anything with a black nose, eyes and white/grey body here is called a smokie. Maybe silvers have a higher percentage Charolais, but I think they are both 50/50.

 

[Randi]

Here it just goes by colour and coat characteristics. The Rat tails are considered Smokies and the good haired cattle are considered Silver.

 

[Muddy]

That's weird!!! Smokey and silver is same animal? Here, Black Angus X Char cross is called smokey but never heard anyone preferred this cross as a silver. Same with tan vs yellow. Rattail is just a rattail.

 

[sim.-ang.king]

Sorry Kenny, but their still going to have a black hide. Don't know if your changing much. :lol:

 

[kenny thomas]

Sorry Kenny, but their still going to have a black hide. Don't know if your changing much. :lol:

Well I have never had black hair from a full Charolais bull. I have had white, yellow, gray, red, and variations of each but never a black from a full Charolais bull. But if I do and get the growth I want I am still ok with it.
Wait, you are correct, you said hide not hair. hahaha

 

[jedstivers]

I think your just a racist ol white bast@rd that isn't giving the black Bulls a chance.
Next thing you'll be growing cotton too.
Other than that yeah, the char's will but more weight on the calves. But you'll still be a racist ol bast@rd. You'll just be one its heavier calves.

 

[kenny thomas]

I think your just a racist ol white bast@rd that isn't giving the black Bulls a chance.
Next thing you'll be growing cotton too.
Other than that yeah, the char's will but more weight on the calves. But you'll still be a racist ol bast@rd. You'll just be one its heavier calves.

Sure I am, but I gave the black bulls a chance and they failed. No more.

 

[Supa Dexta]

Worked this group monday - calves last yr out of the same cows sold for an avg of over 2200 a piece between 6 and 7 weights.

Some smokes, some tans and the odd white. Black nose chars do well, and rightfully so - powerful animals. Just cause something's black, doesnt make it good.. and we're seeing this proven true more and more.

 

[pdfangus]

Dr. George Green of Va Tech back in the 70's used to say all the time....

"There is as much difference within breeds as there is between breeds"

True then and true today....
only difference is we have more designer breeds today.....designer breeds is a nice way of saying crossbred cattle sold as breeds.

 

[True Grit Farms]

There's alot of white trash out there also. I looked at some good Charolais bulls yesterday. But the wife was with me and said don't even think about it.

 

[pdfangus]

my dad went through a spell of using Charolais. This was back in the 60's and 70's. biggest problem we had was disposition....Two bulls and both got really aggressive...I mean you don't walk out in the field aggressive...and horseback you needed a good horse...cows when they calved were tough as well. and back then there were calving ease issues but I understand that is better these days...

I have a few Charolais stories from that era.

i figured that it didn't matter what the calves that lived brought if I was too dead to spend the money. So I sort of soured on em....

 

[Muddy]

There's alot of white trash out there also. I looked at some good Charolais bulls yesterday. But the wife was with me and said don't even think about it.

Alot of white trash? I would say there are tons of black junk cattle than white cattle. No beef and all hatchet azz.

 

[crossbredcalves]

I used a Charolais bull on LH type cows for two calf crops. All calves were yellow with minimal chrome and they all grew well. I sold the calves at 6 months old, weighing between 5 and 6 with very little grain, just what I fed to keep the cows coming up. They grew on grass, hay, and mom's milk. I can't remember how much they brought, but it was within the average for their size/weight.

I would still have him but he got to visiting and quickly realized how big he was. The 3rd time I had to leave work to get him back up, he grew wheels. He never got mean about it, but he knew he could walk right through the fences on my lease place.

 

[Ky hills]

my dad went through a spell of using Charolais. This was back in the 60's and 70's. biggest problem we had was disposition....Two bulls and both got really aggressive...I mean you don't walk out in the field aggressive...and horseback you needed a good horse...cows when they calved were tough as well. and back then there were calving ease issues but I understand that is better these days...

I have a few Charolais stories from that era.

i figured that it didn't matter what the calves that lived brought if I was too dead to spend the money. So I sort of soured on em....

I started out with Charolais in the late 80's, lots of folks told me of their disposition and calving experiences with them. I was fortunate to have had a very docile herd, with the exception of 1 group of heifers that I bought, some of them were plum dangerous, which they didn't stay long.
Calving was a mixed bag, some bulls seemed very easy calving, One bull that I had tended to have big calves, and had to pull one ever now and then. Some of the calves would be as we described them, big and dead headed, most of the time they would be ok after a while but would need some help getting them up and going.
The last Charolais bull I had was a train wreck, as far as calving. That was happening at a time when demand for black cattle was rising, so I switched over to Angus and Hereford bulls after that. I still like Charolais cattle, and would not be opposed to using a proven calving ease bull on cows at some point. Though, I have come to appreciate the liveliness of the Angus and Hereford calves, and that would be hard to move away from.

 

[Bigfoot]

As much as I like them, I'll admit disposition can be an issue. True story, the last char bull I ran was a total pet. Guy I bought him from, loaded him in my trailer in the middle of a field, with a bucket. A full 1/3 of his calves were head hunters. I don't mean flighty. I mean you couldn't close a gate on them, and expect to get in a pen with them.

 

[elkwc]

I am sick of all the "black is the only way to go" talk. Today I bought 2 Charolais bulls to use as my herd bulls. I have several registered Angus cows and a couple of registered black simmys but next year everything will have a Charolais cross calf. I never get the weaning weights anymore that I once thought was common. I keep no heifers and background most of my calves so its all pounds at selling time to me.
Anyone else think this way?

Your definitely gonna get the hybrid vigor. I am going to breed a few to a Hereford bull this time...black baldies seem to top the mkt around here. I'm sure the bull calves will sell good, but mainly I'm going for replacement heifers since I have an aging cowherd.

Black baldies and red baldies are at the top around here and that goes for stockers, feeders and replacements. Char crosses aren't as accepted as they were and a breeder has to decide if the increase in weaning weight if any covers the discount they receive. I'm going for the baldie cross. The black baldies I will go back to RA with.

 

[Muddy]

Black baldies will top the sales at nearly all the sale barns anyways. Red baldies are 10 cents less than solid reds at few local sales, hence not lot of folks are doing a Hereford X Red Angus crosses here.

 

[pdfangus]

Will tell a short tale about one of the Charolais bulls dad had.
he had cattle in two places. one was the place where I had my horses and he had about twenty cows there...the man who owned the place was like a second father to me and he loved all animals....thought they should all be pets....The mans name was Blackburn.
Dad brought a young Charolais bull there that was not much past weaning.
Blackburn soon made a pet of him and named him Charley Brown. This was at a time when I was doing college and army and then back to college and then my first cattle job was out of state....I don't remember exactly where in the schedule all this was.

anyhow on a visit home after a couple of years had elapsed. I walked out in the field with Blackburn and looked at the stock and visited with him...Charlie had gotten to be a big bull and had some pretty big horns.

I can not say what it was...but I had a feeling...the bull did not exhibit any aggression and Blackburn petted him and rubbed him...but I think it was the look in the bulls eye.

later that night I talked to my dad about rotating bulls using the rational the charlie would soon have daughters in the herd...Dad wanted to wait another year before buying another bull. I pressed him and he got mad at me...Finally I said "Dad, I am afraid that bull is going to hurt Blackburn." Dad looked at me and said Blackburn loves that bull and the bull is gentle as a kitten...

I told Dad that I could not explain it but I asked him to humor me and move that bull up the country to the other place. We did not discuss it again. About two months later Dad called me....He never called me...

His first words were to ask me how I knew? I responded "Knew What?"
He said,"That Charlie was going to get mean"
He told me that he had moved the bull the week after I asked him to and that Blackburn was still upset with him...
The bull had settled in with his new herd and everything was going fine and Dad was still looking for a replacement.
About six weeks later dad took the tractor (thank goodness) and rode out into the big pasture to see the herd....
Charlie Brown charged the tractor. For the next two months no one could go into the pasture. Dad took to going out in the pasture with the loader as he was afraid that Charlie might turn over the tractor. Apparently he did lift the front end off the ground a couple of times..... until they finally got Charlie and a few cows to go into the catch pen for feed and managed to get him caught so they could ship him.

The replacement at Blackburn's was a very attractive Devon bull...Still don't know where Dad found him....
he was never the pet that Charlie Brown was but he never got rank either.

 

[Ky hills]

Several years ago, a neighbor used Charolais bulls, and his and mine would fight through the fence, so I started keeping my bulls in fields where they weren't close to another bull, or just ran a yearling bull in boundary fields next to another bull. Over time his bull still would get in with my cows at times. It wasn't a big deal, my cows were gentle d I could get them in the barn lot and barn and separate the bull out, so they could come get him. Then one time, I wasn't sue if it was the same bull or not, and I didn't ask, but I noticed the bull seemed more nervous when he came up into the lot. I got hi and some cows in the barn and by the time I got him in the stall, that e call the bull stall, I just knew there was going to be something happen. The bull tore the side out of the stall, thankfully they could come and get him soon while he was still at least in the barn lot.
That being said, some of the wildest cattle that I have had have been a couple Angus bull calves, their mothers were calm, and so were their contemporaries. One of them was even out of a AI bull promoted for his docility EPD. I like Angus, but seems to be quite a range of disposition from very docile, to very flighty bordering on hostile, with out much in between. Not trying to bash any breeds have had good and bad in each breed that I have dealt with, just sharing some of my experiences.